Water charges - few questions.

CiniO

As there is lot's of talk over all media about water charges, but unfortunately very little details, I would like to ask here - maybe someone will be able to help.

1. I read somewhere that rates for water charges will be released in September. It's 27th and I haven't seen the final rates anywhere. Did I just miss them, or were they not released yet?

2. Registration packs were meant to be send in the beginning of September. I never received anything. Are there delays?

3. When does the metering start? I know first bill is to be issued in January and should cover period from 1st October 2014 to 31st December. But does that actually mean that my meter figures will be calculated from 1st October? (My meter was installed a year ago). That would meant that someone would have to physically come over and make a reading of every meter in the country on 1st October - which I find hardly possible. Otherwise how is the metering going to be implemented if meters are not read on 1st October?
This question interests me the most, as I have to know if I need to start being economic with my water from 1st October, or maybe I don't have to yet, as meter reading won't apply until further?

4. In case meter won't be read on 1st October, then what my first bill is going to be based? The average they presented (66 m^2 per first adult, and 21 m^2 per each other adult per annum) ? Or maybe no need to worry about it, as meter will be read on 1st October, and in January I'll pay exactly for what I used?

ABajaninCork

1. No - You haven't missed anything. NOBODY knows what the charges are - Least of all Irish Water....

2. Probably. We've received ours about two weeks ago, but there's a query on there. The papers are poorly written and I find it difficult to understand exactly what information they need. Pack was addressed to our landlord, but is in fact for us. Nobody seems able to clear the query sufficiently for us to proceed. What I don't want to do is land the landlord with our bloody bill!! However - Don't panic yet. Deadline for return is 31/10.

3. As all the meters haven't been installed yet, I understand everyone will pay a flat rate, which is thought the charge will be about E280. Again, nobody knows what that is, since there has been no official announcement. The meters are all expected to be installed by 2017 :rolleyes:

4. See point 3.

Hope this helps a little...

yoginindublin

How do they charge for apartments? I assume they need to install one meter per apartment

Marcusm

The meters are supposed to be "smart" meaning they can be read electronically from a passing vehicle. Whether the technology works is a different matter. The same technology is being built into electricity and Gas meters.

The_Morrigan

yoginindublin wrote: »

How do they charge for apartments? I assume they need to install one meter per apartment

They are unmetered.

Marcusm

yoginindublin wrote: »

How do they charge for apartments? I assume they need to install one meter per apartment

I'd be very surprised if they could be efficiently retrofitted. In the UK it conventionally becomes a component of the management charge.

Victor

Do look at the Irish Water website www.water.ie

CiniO wrote: »

1. I read somewhere that rates for water charges will be released in September. It's 27th and I haven't seen the final rates anywhere. Did I just miss them, or were they not released yet?

€2.44/m3 for fresh water and €2.44/m3 for sewerage. However, you won't pay more than a certain amount before 2016. If you don't have a meter, you pay the certain amount, based on the number of adults / children in the household. This may be tweaked.

2. Registration packs were meant to be send in the beginning of September. I never received anything. Are there delays?

They can't process more than a million households all at the same time. I only got a letter on Friday. To a degree, they don't need to process everyone until they start billing.

3. When does the metering start? I know first bill is to be issued in January and should cover period from 1st October 2014 to 31st December. But does that actually mean that my meter figures will be calculated from 1st October? (My meter was installed a year ago). That would meant that someone would have to physically come over and make a reading of every meter in the country on 1st October - which I find hardly possible. Otherwise how is the metering going to be implemented if meters are not read on 1st October?

This question interests me the most, as I have to know if I need to start being economic with my water from 1st October, or maybe I don't have to yet, as meter reading won't apply until further?

We should always be economic with anything. While you may not (yet) be paying for it directly, you, I and everyone else are paying for it through our taxes.

4. In case meter won't be read on 1st October, then what my first bill is going to be based? The average they presented (66 m^2 per first adult, and 21 m^2 per each other adult per annum) ? Or maybe no need to worry about it, as meter will be read on 1st October, and in January I'll pay exactly for what I used?

Maybe they won't read your meter until 9th October, they could then bill you for 9th October to 9th January.

CiniO

Marcusm wrote: »

The meters are supposed to be "smart" meaning they can be read electronically from a passing vehicle. Whether the technology works is a different matter. The same technology is being built into electricity and Gas meters.

It would still make it difficult for all meters in the country to be read on 1st October.

SpaceTime

Actually better tech being used by ESB. They have SIM cards - no need for cars and all that.

Ken.

If I had a meter I'd be going out at some time on October first and taking a picture with my phone of what the current numbers were on the display.

CiniO

Thanks for your replys.

However those seem to contradict each other.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

3. As all the meters haven't been installed yet, I understand everyone will pay a flat rate, which is thought the charge will be about E280. Again, nobody knows what that is, since there has been no official announcement. The meters are all expected to be installed by 2017 :rolleyes:

Victor wrote: »

€2.44/m3 for fresh water and €2.44/m3 for sewerage. However, you won't pay more than a certain amount before 2016. If you don't have a meter, you pay the certain amount, based on the number of adults / children in the household. This may be tweaked.

So will this be flat rate dependent on number of persons living in the house, or will this be actually metered?
Or capped that if meter readings show bigger amount then the flat rate, then you pay only flat rate?

We should always be economic with anything. While you may not (yet) be paying for it directly, you, I and everyone else are paying for it through our taxes.

We are, but as it didn't affect me so far directly (i didn't pay more if I used more) I wasn't too economic with water. I suppose everyone would be like that.

Maybe they won't read your meter until 9th October, they could then bill you for 9th October to 9th January.

How will I know then when are they going to read the meter?
And in case as you said - 9th October, what would happen with period from 1st October to 9th October - will this be counted on flat rate, or just completely ignored? (but that would mean that some households will only start paying later for water, even if this means extra few days of free water, it wouldn't be fair.

CiniO

So there were some more details released today

Water charges
Posted on September 30, 2014
The Commission for Energy Regulation has set out the new water charges that will apply to domestic customers from tomorrow, 1 October 2014, until 31 December 2016. Read more in this press release (pdf).

The main points are:

The metered rate for a household that uses 2 water services – the public water supply and the public sewage system – is €4.88 per 1,000 litres
If you only use one water service, the rate is €2.44 per 1,000 litres
If you don’t have a meter, your water bill will be based on assessed charges – see table below
Even if you do have a meter, your bill will be capped at these assessed rates for the first 9 months
If your water is unfit to drink and a “boil water” notice has been issued, you will get a 100% discount on the water supply element of your charge, once the notice is in place for 24 hours
There is a free allowance of 30,000 litres for every household and a separate allowance of 21,000 litres for each child

Details of capped charges in here:
http://whatsnew.citizensinformation.ie/2014/09/30/water-charges/

So my household is 2 adults + one child, therefore capped rate for us is €278 per annum (€69.5 per quarter).

Is my understanding right, that if I use water worth more than €69.5 per quarter (within next 9 month) I'll still pay only €69.5?
And as well if I use less (f.e. water worth €50) I'll only pay €50, right?

Now in relation to free allowance... For my household it's 51 cubic meters per annum (12.75 cubic meters per quarter).
Does that mean that if I don't use more than 12.75 cubic metres per quarter, I won't pay anything? Is that right?

Monthly cap of €69.5 as mentioned earlier equals 14.25 cubic metres.

So that would mean that for usage of up to 12.75 cubic metres per quarter there would be no charges, and anything between 12.75 and 27 cubic metres per quarter will be charged at €4.88 per cubic metre (f.e. €11 if 15 cubic metres used, €50 if 23 cubic metres used, and €69.5 if 27 cubic metres used). Any usage above that (above 27 cubic metres per quarter) will be for free for the next 9 months.

Is the above all correct?

But that still leaves open question about meter reading - when will this happen?

rustyzip

I live in an apartment with three other people.

I got a letter in post today..
What's stopping me saying only two people are living in the apartment?

Two of the guys I live with work in London three days of the week so are only here for the weekend (if they're even there for that)

Ridiculous to be charged for people's average usage when they're not even there!!

ABajaninCork

rustyzip wrote: »

I live in an apartment with three other people.

I got a letter in post today..
What's stopping me saying only two people are living in the apartment?

Two of the guys I live with work in London three days of the week so are only here for the weekend (if they're even there for that)

Ridiculous to be charged for people's average usage when they're not even there!!

If you live in a flat, then the charges will be unmetered; i.e. you'll be paying a flat rate. Split the bill between the three of you.

CiniO

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If you live in a flat, then the charges will be unmetered; i.e. you'll be paying a flat rate. Split the bill between the three of you.

Well his whole point is that you need to declare how many people live in the apartment.
If you declare 3 people you are going to pay way more than if you declared 1 person.

vidor

Live in an apartment but haven't received any documentation. Do I need to do anything or should I be seeing something in the post soon?

TheChizler

CiniO wrote: »

How will I know then when are they going to read the meter?
And in case as you said - 9th October, what would happen with period from 1st October to 9th October - will this be counted on flat rate, or just completely ignored? (but that would mean that some households will only start paying later for water, even if this means extra few days of free water, it wouldn't be fair.

Presumably the meters record historical data, so when they eventually come by to do the reading they can query the data from a certain date onwards. It wouldn't make sense to only allow real-time readings.

Then again when it comes to IT and governments normally very little makes sense.

CiniO

TheChizler wrote: »

Presumably the meters record historical data, so when they eventually come by to do the reading they can query the data from a certain date onwards. It wouldn't make sense to only allow real-time readings.

Then again when it comes to IT and governments normally very little makes sense.

I didn't know that.
However THe Irish Times article seems to confirm it.

How will they know I used less - won’t they have to read my meter today?
No. The meter reading on the last day of every month is automatically recorded and stored for three months so the readers who check your meter at any point between now and Christmas will know what it was set at on day one and make adjustments accordingly.

I'm still going to use advice from above and take a picture of my meter tomorrow today after midnight with time&date stamp and GPS coordinated in EXIF data.

dubrov

If you are unmetered you pay the "assessed charge".
If you are metered you pay the minimum of the "assessed charge" and you metered charge for the first nine months.
The "assessed charge" seems to be based on the number of adults and does not take into account the dwelling type.

Looks like apartment dwellers are getting screwed on all of the above.

So much for charging people fairly for what they use

CiniO

dubrov wrote: »

If you are unmetered you pay the "assessed charge".
If you are metered you pay the minimum of the "assessed charge" and you metered charge for the first nine months.
The "assessed charge" seems to be based on the number of adults and does not take into account the dwelling type.

Looks like apartment dwellers are getting screwed on all of the above.

So much for charging people fairly for what they use

If you are metered, you pay what you used (subtracting free allowance) but up to maximum of assessed charge.
So f.e. for 2 adults household you pay €278 maximum no matter how much water you use. If you use less, then you pay less.
My understaing is that if you use very little (to fit within free allowance) you won't pay anything.

dubrov

That is the same as saying you pay the minimum of the assessed charge and the metered amount (less allowances of course).

My point is that the equivalent unmetered customer will pay at least the same and probably more than their metered counterpart.

Gatling

dubrov wrote: »

That is the same as saying you pay the minimum of the assessed charge and the metered amount (less allowances of course).

My point is that the equivalent unmetered customer will pay at least the same and probably more than their metered counterpart.

Unmetered likely just won't pay

hoodwinked

We live in an apartment/duplex situation 2 Apartment's 2 duplex's per block, just checked (forgot until i saw this thread) and noticed for the 4 different households there are only two meters,

what happens in this case? do we pay for our upstairs neighbour? is she going to be charged for our usage?


Edit: Just to add the meters were installed about a year ago so i doubt they are coming back

Lucy B

Will we be able to pay monthly or quarterly or will they want the money upfront in January?

Victor

CiniO wrote: »

But that still leaves open question about meter reading - when will this happen?

It seems that the meters can store the end of month reading for several months. So the reading for 00:00 on 1 October 2014 can happen any time up to 00:00 1 January 2015.

rustyzip wrote: »

I live in an apartment with three other people.

I got a letter in post today..
What's stopping me saying only two people are living in the apartment?

The risk of a fraud conviction?

Lucy B wrote: »

Will we be able to pay monthly or quarterly or will they want the money upfront in January?

They are accepting part payments, with a minimum of €10 per payment. Billing will be quarterly. the bill will arrive in January, but you will likely have a few weeks before you have to pay it.