Féileacán Mór

sconhome

mossym wrote: »

what does that translate to in V02(ml/kg/min)?

Gave me the option of VO2 test or the threshold test and I went for threshold.

My VO2 was measured at 54 previously and based on watch tests over the past years sits around the 54-56 mark.

Matt advised based on results, genetics etc it won't vary much and the threshold would be a better option for me to zoom in on my zones.

The HR file is here. I didn't have my footpod on but had his and will see his file later today.

https://flow.polar.com/training/analysis/30516628

sconhome

mossym wrote: »

what does that translate to in V02(ml/kg/min)?

Essentially if I train in the zone right zone I am developing tolerance to lactate. As tolerance / flushing improves relative speeds at that HR will fall and falling weight will also reduce the resistance at those HR making effort easier.

pgibbo

How much was the test or did you get a friends rate? Were you there for long?

Sub 40 in Kilcornan still on so?

sconhome

pgibbo wrote: »

How much was the test or did you get a friends rate? Were you there for long?

Sub 40 in Kilcornan still on so?

For the lactate test €100. Was best part of hour and half all told, test 45/50 mins, chat / intro and weigh in. (I question the accuracy of his scales!! )

sconhome

Sean,

Please find attached a copy of your Lactate Threshold Test Report.

Your test results show you have a big margin for improvement and are really exciting. Start using the new zones and the suggested training plan and you’ll soon start to notice an improvement in your fitness.

Please stay in touch and let me know how you progress and I’ll happily make some amendments to your training after the initial 4 to 6 week phase.


Regards,

Matt

#justsaying

sconhome

Lactate Threshold – 4mmol/litre at a speed of 4:03 mins/km at a heart rate of 163bpm.

It is at this level that the bulk of your training should take place to ensure firm foundations to

the rest of your weekly/monthly structure can be achieved

Read em and weep CW

catweazle

AKW wrote: »

Read em and weep CW

Bulk of your training at 4.03 pace - Ha he must have known you do about an hour a week. I am looking forward to the next few training reports

MojoMaker

Did he mean the bulk of your 20% hard efforts should be at 4:03 / 163bpm, or the bulk of your training, period? If the latter where's the room for the 80% easy efforts at a much lower AHR and avg pace?

sconhome

MojoMaker wrote: »

Did he mean the bulk of your 20% hard efforts should be at 4:03 / 163bpm, or the bulk of your training, period? If the latter where's the room for the 80% easy efforts at a much lower AHR and avg pace?

Good question and something I was mulling over running last night.

Basically forgetting the pace as this was treadmill pace testing, Matt reckons add 15-20 sec per km on for 'realtime' pace, working at 163bpm is my Lactate Threshold at 4mmol/litre.

Running at speeds below the LT can be useful for warming up and for some easy “recovery” running, whereas running at speeds above the LT stimulate improvements in fitness.
Most of your shorter duration, steady running, should be done at speeds close to, or just above, your LT.

For me
Easy / recovery | Zone 1 | 144-150bpm
Threshold running | Zone 2 | 151-163bpm
Tempo running | Zone 3 | 164-170bpm
Interval Running | Zone 4 | 171bpm +

These are replacing the traditional Zones of 1-5 (4 is the new 5, 3 is 4 etc)

So based on a 5 run week he's suggested for the next couple of weeks to see how I respond
x2 Zone 1 runs 50mins
x2 Threshold runs Zone 2 40 mins
x1 Long recovery Zone 1 90mins

sconhome

MojoMaker wrote: »

Did he mean the bulk of your 20% hard efforts should be at 4:03 / 163bpm, or the bulk of your training, period? If the latter where's the room for the 80% easy efforts at a much lower AHR and avg pace?

I'll ping him a message but I think the bulk of the training should be at or below this level, ie don't exceed 163bpm so I would assume this is the 80% section and about it is the 'hard' work intervals & tempo work.

sconhome

An event invite from Western Eagles Galway Orienteering popped up on my Facebook timeline a few weeks back and I added myself as a plan for a Sunday morning outing with the family.

My son loves maps and is always drawing treasure maps which only he can follow so I pitched the idea to the family for a bit of fun outing.

Edel has never done orienteering, its been 20+ years since I did any (outside of the Beast this year) and its great fun for the kids to go exploring in the woods. So off we went Sunday morning to register at Merlin Park Woods in Galway. We were handed two maps and two control cards.

Ruaidhri had it all worked out that we would work as a team with him and daddy going one way and the girls going the other way.

He's 4.

Once I explained the map and what we would be doing he decided we could all go together. He was 'Chief Navigator', daddy was assistant, mummy was the controller in charge of dibbing in at the stations and Rachel was scout, who took instruction on directions and found the control points.


Chief navigaor pointing out the way.

All sorted and off we went. The course was mapped out nicely and the first control points were easy to pick out. Once we were into the woods we had options of following trails or cutting through the woods.

We had to make team decision on what route to choose and at one point after explaining that:
(1). we could go through the woods but if we got stuck we'd have to turn back and go around or
(2). we could stick to the main path and make good progress.

The scout decided to stick to the path.

There was one sticky situation towards the end where we pushed through a trail in the woods to find we were heading away from our goal. Doubling back along the fence line we found a gap and with a quick one, two the kids were fired over and we followed off to CP8.

From here it was a short trot back towards CP9 and a circum-navigation of a fenced area back to the starting point where scout ensured that the team was together (good practise for #AdventureRacing) before dibbing in and handing back the control cards.

All in all a great morning adventure a nice 3km loop and the best thing is there will be another event in 2 weeks time in Renville Park.

pgibbo

AKW wrote: »

I'll ping him a message but I think the bulk of the training should be at or below this level, ie don't exceed 163bpm so I would assume this is the 80% section and about it is the 'hard' work intervals & tempo work.

Has he not answered this question already for you based on the sessions you should be doing?

mossym

pgibbo wrote: »

Has he not answered this question already for you based on the sessions you should be doing?

looked like it, but then there is no high intensity run in what he listed, or does that just make up the 80%?

x2 Zone 1 runs 50mins
x2 Threshold runs Zone 2 40 mins
x1 Long recovery Zone 1 90mins


and then a threshold run as well? or is that list the full week?

sconhome

pgibbo wrote: »

Has he not answered this question already for you based on the sessions you should be doing?

I think it is in the reading of the report.

That piece I quoted, in context, looks like that the 163bpm is the upper limit for the time being with future blocks building on the interval and over limit work.

I need to re-read the report in full with a clear head.

sconhome

mossym wrote: »

looked like it, but then there is no high intensity run in what he listed, or does that just make up the 80%?

x2 Zone 1 runs 50mins
x2 Threshold runs Zone 2 40 mins
x1 Long recovery Zone 1 90mins


and then a threshold run as well? or is that list the full week?

Nothing above threshold for the moment. Matt wants me to do 4 weeks with the new levels as a base.

I will be doing more runs overall, volume, but will be conscious of the zones instead of pushing intervals on hills and the like.

catweazle

AKW wrote: »

.

Were the other parents intimidated when you arrived in that kit - are you carrying Oxygen canisters in that rucksack in case of some high altitude climbs?

sconhome

catweazle wrote: »

Were the other parents intimidated when you arrived in that kit - are you carrying Oxygen canisters in that rucksack in case of some high altitude climbs?

Nope its to balance out my belly so I don't fall over when standing up!!

mossym

asking this here because it may help others, this log is turning into a good resource.


part of the reason for running on hr was to limit the stress to the body, the pace would drop but the workload stayed the same so you could max out the work without overstressing the body.


what governs your runs now, the pace or the HR? if you've been told to run at certain paces, what happens if your hr goes over? or are you still going by HR, just the 4:03 you mentioned above was the pace you were doing for testing?

i'm guessing you are still running by HR, and the pace is secondary?

sconhome

Good questions that make me question what I've been doing.

Ok background, I started running focused on pace, then after educating myself quickly bought a HR and ran to zones. Not understanding what I was doing fully I got Lactate testing done in TCD 7/8 years ago and understood a bit more.

Since then I've been in and out of training with kids, life etc and defaulted back to HR (without any major plan) for the past few years.

With what I felt was a nice base fitness through regular training I took on Galway 70.3 (twice) and a couple of other races at which I seemed to do better on endurance based training.

Two years ago thanks to Fran's Plan I took a different approach to marathoon training and realised I was probably limiting my progress through solo HR training. I found I was relatively fast for a fat, under trained aul fellow!!

Curiousity and a modicum of necessity led me back for re-testing to find that indeed I was training well but at a zone below the point at which it would become 'beneficial'.

So, to answer the important question. Run is governed by HR (as I generally did) but governed through using the correct zones (now that I can personalise the zones on my V800 ) Over time the pace will follow within those zones, pace should always be secondary IMO and I would advise the same ideal to anyone starting the run groups with me.

shotgunmcos

+1

I've been a slave to pace and learned feic all. The penny dropped one day doing a long run when I had a few pace blocks to do and killed myself to do them. Overreached completely. HR not only keeps your sessions more realistic and controlled but you learn more about your body. RPE gets more accurate and that's the real indicator. Pace has as place, mainly intervals.


How many people do 'easy' runs too hard? *puts hand up*

HR first, pace second, then cadence, then ground contact, then bounce, then pics of where you run while you run, then......

Sure why else would you need the v800

sconhome

I've been running far too easy. My easy pace is around 5:10/ km at the moment. When I would have previously tipped away at 5:30 ish.

Tempo this evening so curious to see how that goes.

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Sure why else would you need the v800

50 hour battery, multisport capability, personalise your own sports (kayak for example) looks good, doesn't fog....

Dory Dory

So, you weren't doing what most of us do, which is running the LSRs too fast? You were actually running them too slow?? A rarity, if so!

And you don't look fat! You keep saying you're fat. Where are the fat photos??!!!

sconhome

Dory Dory wrote: »

So, you weren't doing what most of us do, which is running the LSRs too fast? You were actually running them too slow?? A rarity, if so!

And you don't look fat! You keep saying you're fat. Where are the fat photos??!!!

You're too kind Dory.

I hide it well

Yep its mad, I was running at a level I thought was right but the test shows I've a wide aerobic base and as Matt said when testing 'things are going to happen fast' as in within a very small HR band there was a big jump in blood lactate.

sconhome

Dory was very nice to say I'm not fat. I don't mind sharing so here are the stats from the testing night:

BMI | 27
Body Fat % | 27.1
Skeletal Muscle % | 33.8
Visceral Fat % | 10

Technically I'm overweight, high body fat content, low skeletal muscle, low risk visceral fat.

I fail the jiggle test miserably but am not hung up on it. I lean up relatively quickly and have a few weight goals I would like to achieve for myself.

sconhome

I've been smoothered with a head cold / sinus thingy which always hits me with a change in the weather. Judging by my sleeping patterns taking Sudafed before bed is not a good idea.

This morning was the first morning my waking HR was below 60 (just) inspite of the threshold workout the evening before.

Date | Run Distance | Bike Distance | Time | Avg BPM | AvgPace/Km | KCal
13 Oct 2014 | 9.5km | | 00:49:38 | 147 | 00:05:13 | 787
14 Oct 2014 || 9.6 | 00:23:40 | 141 | | 343
14 Oct 2014 | 11.82 | | 00:57:59 | 156 | 00:04:54 | 1009
15 Oct 2014 | 9.52 | | 00:52:01 | 148 | 00:05:27 | 830

If ever you wondered about the effect of fatigue on training, simply compare my recovery run from last Saturday:
11 Oct 2014 | 9.74 || 00:50:06 | 146 | 00:05:08 | 785

With Monday (+ 7 sec / km) and today (+19 sec / km) distance is exactly the same, same direction of hills etc and more-or-less same HR avg. If I was runnign focused on pace I would be piling fatigue on top of that.

tunney

AKW wrote: »

I'll ping him a message but I think the bulk of the training should be at or below this level, ie don't exceed 163bpm so I would assume this is the 80% section and about it is the 'hard' work intervals & tempo work.

Is he capping your hard work at 4:03 and 163bpm?

tunney

AKW wrote: »

I've been smoothered with a head cold / sinus thingy which always hits me with a change in the weather. Judging by my sleeping patterns taking Sudafed before bed is not a good idea.

This morning was the first morning my waking HR was below 60 (just) inspite of the threshold workout the evening before.

Date | Run Distance | Bike Distance | Time | Avg BPM | AvgPace/Km | KCal
13 Oct 2014 | 9.5km | | 00:49:38 | 147 | 00:05:13 | 787
14 Oct 2014 || 9.6 | 00:23:40 | 141 | | 343
14 Oct 2014 | 11.82 | | 00:57:59 | 156 | 00:04:54 | 1009
15 Oct 2014 | 9.52 | | 00:52:01 | 148 | 00:05:27 | 830

If ever you wondered about the effect of fatigue on training, simply compare my recovery run from last Saturday:
11 Oct 2014 | 9.74 || 00:50:06 | 146 | 00:05:08 | 785

With Monday (+ 7 sec / km) and today (+19 sec / km) distance is exactly the same, same direction of hills etc and more-or-less same HR avg. If I was runnign focused on pace I would be piling fatigue on top of that.

Seeing as you are a HR fiend, do you monitor HRV?

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

Is he capping your hard work at 4:03 and 163bpm?

Yes. For the next few weeks he just wants me to run sub threshold.

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

Seeing as you are a HR fiend, do you monitor HRV?

Occasionally using the orthostatic test, but not as often as I should. Never really got the handle on Kubios, probably due to the awkwardness of exporting files over.

MojoMaker

Good info in this log - thanks AKW. Anybody got any recommendations for lactate testing in the Dublin area? Sounds like there could be real benefit to grabbing a bit of science here.

sconhome

MojoMaker wrote: »

Good info in this log - thanks AKW. Anybody got any recommendations for lactate testing in the Dublin area? Sounds like there could be real benefit to grabbing a bit of science here.

You're welcome.

The guy I saw in Trinity was Dr. Bernard Dunne in the Anatomy department. Be worth a shout.

sconhome

A small message last night from Matt to remind me to change my bike HR values. Roughly 10 bpm off my run settings should be accurate enough for now.

tunney

AKW wrote: »

Occasionally using the orthostatic test, but not as often as I should. Never really got the handle on Kubios, probably due to the awkwardness of exporting files over.

You have an S5 no?
Use the Lepo app. Free and good

sconhome

S4. Have now downloaded Lepo will give it a go and compare with the watch Orthostatic test. Thanks.

sconhome

Date | Run Distance | Bike Distance | Time | Avg BPM | AvgPace/Km | KCal
13 Oct 2014 | 9.5 | | 00:49:38 | 147 | 00:05:13 | 787
14 Oct 2014 || 9.6 | 00:23:40 | 141 | | 343
14 Oct 2014 | 11.82 | | 00:57:59 | 156 | 00:04:54 | 1009
15 Oct 2014 | 9.52 | | 00:52:01 | 148 | 00:05:27 | 830
||||||
15 Oct 2014 ||9.5 | 00:25:15 | 137 ||355
16 Oct 2014 ||9.73 | 00:27:29 | 137 | | 387
16 Oct 2014 | 11.63 | | 00:59:56 | 156 | 00:05:08 | 1059
19 Oct 2014 | | 23.74 | 02:00:43 |148 | |1933

Taking the second half of the week the basic premise is I am wrecked.

The kids, daughter mostly, have attrocious sleeping habits. It's like a merry-go-round in our house with everyone swapping beds. I'm normally a sound sleeper but when I'm woken in the night I don't go back easily and often end up reading for 2 or 3 hours.

By Friday I had no intentions or will to cycle, let alone run into work. It's a long day too as open til 7:30pm.

Saturday I was up early with the mind to do a 1.5 hour recovery run (as per plan) before work, out at 7 back for 8:30 shower etc. However the slightest hesitation had me bailing and chilling with the kids.

Sunday, BTH had me up at a godforsaken hour to drive him to Ballyhoura!!
In fairness Mrs AKW insisted that I head off with the cerw for a few hours R&R. Considering I've been in everyday since I was at Achill she reckoned I needed time out or possibly time off.

Great morning of craic, no need to rehash as so many others have filled you in but the V800 vs Fenix 2 Special Edition* battle will continue. The V800 is ahead on just being Polar and self cleaning, all other features are irrelevant, though the course we did is now a favourite and waypoints / tracking / navigation are now available on my wrist and if you would like to experience it you can check out the Relive feature on the Polar website and if you click "View Details" it'll show you the data....



*very important to avoid a banning that you acknowledge the SE element of this watch

sconhome

Thought just struck me too in response to :

@amphkingwest @EugeneFeely @mossym155 @triharderkate All clean faces bar Sean & I. Also out, 310xt,310xt,310xt,910xt,V800,Fenix2 SE!

Of all the watches on display and in use it is quite obvious through a process of elimination to arrive at the obvious fact that there was only one accurate watch there......

Polar V800

sconhome

The other thing from yesterday was the spectacular 'off' that I had much to the enjoyment of MCOS.

We were flying along the brown trail, I was really enjoying how comfortable I was handling the bike and going with the curves. There was a series of steps and I dropped nicely off each of them nailing the landing but one of them caught me adjusting my feet.

Bike lifted off nicely, then I lifted off the bike, the legs went akimbo, I hit the apex of the arc and as body and bike sucumbed to the overpowering attraction of gravity in a long drawn out, slowmontion "NOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo!!!" I scrambled to get the feet back on the pedals.

The advantage of being 71, is the accumulated wisdom of knowing that if the feet don't make the pedals, clutching the saddle with your inner thighs will dimminish the damage to the undercarriage.

However I was yet to learn that it doesn't eliminate the injury. Ouch!! :eek: :eek:

I'm glad someone found it amusing though as MCOS struggled to contain himself though he very nearly had a bike implanted in his head as he stopped mid trail on a blind bend after a big jump fightening a stripe into the saddle of the CUBE BTH was riding

sconhome

Arrived home Monday evening shattered.

Was asked where Rachel was and my response started with " I'm just home, is she in the sittin..." and then my brain kicked into gear, I was supposed to collect her from dancing on the way home.

Poor child.

I need proper sleep.

Dory Dory

^^^ Could be a sign of dangerously low sugar levels!!!

sconhome

Dory Dory wrote: »

^^^ Could be a sign of dangerously low sugar levels!!!

You are a dangerous woman!!




*turns left out of shop*

sconhome

Brackets ordered for mounting camera:



One for under the saddle like this and another for the handlebars.

Gives MCOS an excuse for getting out now too. "But I have to go!! Sean needs me to remote operate the camera!!"

Note: red ordered to match the jackets / Fenix 2 SE & gloves

career move

My jacket is blue

sconhome

career move wrote: »

My jacket is blue

Don't worry my headlamp is blue to match your jacket.

shotgunmcos

AKW wrote: »

Don't worry my headlamp is blue to match your jacket.

My bike is blue

To control the camera with the Fenix 2 SE I have to be within 3m. I just tried explaining to Caz..

Caz "why have the camera facing backwards?"
Me "cool clip of the bikes behind and the fun offs!"
Caz "offs?"
Me *points to bruise on thigh* "yeah tree and rock hugging at speed"
Caz *looks at Zoe feeding* "your Daddy and his friends are awful eejits aren't they choochie coo"
Zoe *burp* *fart*....
Caz "how will Sean control it if it is behind him?"
Me "the idea is I control it with my watch!" *demonstrates enthusiastically as if on the bike..*
Caz "So Sean is in front of you?"
Me "Yeah, but I need to be within 3m so I'll be stuck to him.."
Caz "What if he falls? Can Sean not control it with his own watch ?!"
Me "don't worry Sean is the Jedi of MTBing, I couldn't be in safer hands "
Caz "Didn't you come back with a busted ankle after ye'r last race ?"
Me "Is that the doorbell? I think my mum said she was calling...*runs away..*

sconhome

shotgunmcos wrote: »

My bike is blue

To control the camera with the Fenix 2 SE I have to be within 3m. I just tried explaining to Caz..

Caz "why have the camera facing backwards?"
Me "cool clip of the bikes behind and the fun offs!"
Caz "offs?"
Me *points to bruise on thigh* "yeah tree and rock hugging at speed"
Caz *looks at Zoe feeding* "your Daddy and his friends are awful eejits aren't they choochie coo"
Zoe *burp* *fart*....
Caz "how will Sean control it if it is behind him?"
Me "the idea is I control it with my watch!" *demonstrates enthusiastically as if on the bike..*
Caz "So Sean is in front of you?"
Me "Yeah, but I need to be within 3m so I'll be stuck to him.."
Caz "What if he falls? Can Sean not control it with his own watch ?!"
Me "don't worry Sean is the Jedi of MTBing, I couldn't be in safer hands "
Caz "Didn't you come back with a busted ankle after ye'r last race ?"
Me "Is that the doorbell? I think my mum said she was calling...*runs away..*

HAHA!!

Sounds about right

I've also screen grabbed this to post at Zoe's 21st

RayCun

AKW wrote: »

I've also screen grabbed this to post at Zoe's 21st

I'm sure by then she'll be completely sick of the story of how her dad was fiddling with his watch on his mountain bike while trying to stay within 3m of the guy in front, and that is how they ended up joined together for life in that unusual position :pac:

sconhome

No idea if I did anything last week bar eat popcorn and Aero

Another hectic week and such broken sleep its not funny. Delighted in one way not to be either doing or at the DCM expo, but missed the craic all the same.

Wife & kids away to Skigo on Friday so had plans to MTB and run until joining them on Sunday evening. Ended up closing for the Sunday & Monday so travelled up Sat evening. Arrived wrecked. Wriggling, kicking, tooth grinding daughter kept me awake after landing in the bed at 2am so Sunday was a right off, weather was attrocious.

Ended up getting out for a while on Monday with the kids along the riverbank at Dooley Park on the bikes. Discovered a nice idea for a long weekend / challenge some time:


Back to Galway Monday night for work and finally got around to doing my VICE penance last night. Made the classic mistake of lighting a fire underneath myself by doing a S&C session Tuesday morning and then squat jumps last night.

Dory Dory

Skigo? Sister town to Sligo, but with a higher elevation....I'm guessing??

sconhome

Haha is the low blood sugar!!

Dory Dory

Good man!