Beef Production

Gilroy

Hi all,

Thinking about building sheds to house 200 cattle. Buy in 220kg to 300kg weanling bulls and castrate.

Fatten snd sell back in the mart at 450 / 500kg.

I know it hards to make money but got to try something to expand. On 50acres here, so could zero graze it also as an option or bale all 50 acres for feed with 1kg rolled barley per head.

caseman

Gilroy wrote: »

Hi all,

Thinking about building sheds to house 200 cattle. Buy in 220kg to 300kg weanling bulls and castrate.

Fatten snd sell back in the mart at 450 / 500kg.

I know it hards to make money but got to try something to expand. On 50acres here, so could zero graze it also as an option or bale all 50 acres for feed with 1kg rolled barley per head.

How do you plan to make money with this system.

roofer1988

Sorry dont want to sound rude or mean. But your nuts do you have any idea of wat it would cost to get goin and buy your zero grazer and or bale your 50 acres. Start pumping them with ration 90 days before you kill them just as Larry decides to pull the price 10 cent a week.how long would your 350 kgs weanling be inside growing. Sorry again but if i was you i would drink every penny you put aside for that job. sorry

blue5000

OP did you win the 86m at the weekend?

AP2014

Gilroy wrote: »

Hi all,

Thinking about building sheds to house 200 cattle. Buy in 220kg to 300kg weanling bulls and castrate.

Fatten snd sell back in the mart at 450 / 500kg.

I know it hards to make money but got to try something to expand. On 50acres here, so could zero graze it also as an option or bale all 50 acres for feed with 1kg rolled barley per head.

Why build a shed? Buy 40 in March and sell in Nov, save yourself the expensive of building a shed. Ya won't make a fortune but ya will make a few pound. No expensive feed costs.

Gilroy

caseman wrote: »

How do you plan to make money with this system.

I wont for a few years but got to start somewhere. ..

Gilroy

AP2014 wrote: »

Why build a shed? Buy 40 in March and sell in Nov, save yourself the expensive of building a shed. Ya won't make a fortune but ya will make a few pound. No expensive feed costs.

Currently do this method and no money in it. Have to try different system. Larger numbers more profit.

FarmerDougal

Do 50 weanling to store for a few years, then see if you can justify shed/ machinery imo

FarmerDougal

Do 50 weanling to store for a few years, then see if you can justify shed/ machinery imo

AP2014

Gilroy wrote: »

Currently do this method and no money in it. Have to try different system. Larger numbers more profit.

I'm doing it at a smaller scale than yours and making money. How do you plan on making money with them in a shed if ya can't make money on them from grass?

You should have very little expensive now, ya will have when you have them in a shed.

Gilroy

FarmerDougal wrote: »

Do 50 weanling to store for a few years, then see if you can justify shed/ machinery imo

I have done this over the years, made profit on system from feb to oct then sell. But if I had sheds packed with 200 weanlings then more profit. Yes I will have bills in first few years but they will be paid off.

FarmerDougal

Gilroy wrote: »

I have done this over the years, made profit on system from feb to oct then sell. But if I had sheds packed with 200 weanlings then more profit. Yes I will have bills in first few years but they will be paid off.

Have you laying hen?

Wouldn't advise packing shed either as weanlings, you must leave room for them to move when they fill out on cheap ad lib meal

roofer1988

Please dont do it. Dont like to see any fellow in trouble with money even if i dont know you. As said if you cant make it at grass it cant be done.Alot of fellows here would love something like that but it just dont pay,and them sharks around the ring wont leave you a beast to handy

Gilroy

Seriously there has to be lads at this type of method. Buying in cheap €8 straw round bales, chop up with meal and bit of molasses. Low cost feed.

If you have better ideas let me know. So far everyone thinks im crazy. Maybe I am.....

Gilroy

roofer1988 wrote:

Please dont do it. Dont like to see any fellow in trouble with money even if i dont know you. As said if you cant make it at grass it cant be done.Alot of fellows here would love something like that but it just dont pay,and them sharks around the ring wont leave you a beast to handy

thanks for reply, certainly an interesting topic. In the UK I have seen reports of lads doing this. margins is tight but they are making more money in the long run.

FarmerDougal

Gilroy wrote: »

thanks for reply, certainly an interesting topic. In the UK I have seen reports of lads doing this. margins is tight but they are making more money in the long run.

Have not got access to same byproducts in this country like cakes biscuits vegetables chocolate etc

Gilroy

FarmerDougal wrote:

Have not got access to same byproducts in this country like cakes biscuits vegetables chocolate etc

True but I have access to 50 acres that I could put crop in to feed cattle. Lots of options but which one is best?? would you feed 200 cattle on to cuts from 50 acres???

FarmerDougal

Gilroy wrote: »

True but I have access to 50 acres that I could put crop in to feed cattle. Lots of options but which one is best?? would you feed 200 cattle on to cuts from 50 acres???

For beef, best option is the least lab our intensive system possible with as much grazing as possible and always finish off grass. You will make money winter finishing 1 year in 10

_Brian

Either two things will stand I the way of this fendishly clever plan !

1. OP will do better than he thinks at his junior cert next ear and so realise this pipe dream is a dead end.
2. The bank will repossess the sheds and 50 acres and it will be a steal for someone at auction.

Building a shed to house 200 cattle just to e doing something to be expanding in the knowledge that it won't make any money is just juvenile and insaine.

Limestone Cowboy

200 weanlings on 50 acres...Aside from everything else would this even be allowed with the Nitrates directive

Gilroy

_Brian wrote:

1. OP will do better than he thinks at his junior cert next ear and so realise this pipe dream is a dead end. 2. The bank will repossess the sheds and 50 acres and it will be a steal for someone at auction.

And the person that buys it at auction, will they also be juvenile and insane.

Look dont mean to be smart but farming cant stay static. I need to grow and invest in the future.

Sam Kade

So this is the complete opposite of money in beef thread anyone see a pattern forming here?

Op if you are summer grazing now and are familiar with cattle you surely know your plan is a disaster, unless you are living in cuckoo land

AP2014

Sam Kade wrote: »

So this is the complete opposite of money in beef thread anyone see a pattern forming here?

Op if you are summer grazing now and are familiar with cattle you surely know your plan is a disaster, unless you are living in cuckoo land

Whats the pattern?

Gilroy

Sam Kade wrote:

Op if you are summer grazing now and are familiar with cattle you surely know your plan is a disaster, unless you are living in cuckoo land 

Sam Kade wrote:

So this is the complete opposite of money in beef thread anyone see a pattern forming here?

what are you on about..... im asking and discussing what other people think of this idea.

AP2014

Gilroy wrote: »

what are you on about..... im asking and discussing what other people think of this idea.

Don't mind him....I think he may have some issues. My making money in beef thread drove him mad. He still isn't over it.

Your thread may have sent him over the edge. His parents are probably bringing him around with smelling salt.

Sam Kade

AP2014 wrote: »

Don't mind him....I think he may have some issues. My making money in beef thread drove him mad. He still isn't over it.

Your thread may have sent him over the edge. His parents are probably bringing him around with smelling salt.

Shouldn't you be trying to talk some sense into the op on how to make money in beef instead of making presumptions about people?

Count Mondego

Gilroy,

You cannot compare a a summer grazing system to a winter finishing system. Poles apart. How can you make the assumption that changing your whole system and scaling up 400% will guarantee profit? Finishers in England get 25% more for their produce than we do, and you say they make a small margin.

You'd be better off flying to Vegas and put it all on red.

epfff

Serious q
What sorta money to build shed for 200 weanlings
20 bays of slats with 4 bays of concrete floor for sad cases?
You will need 100k min stock 100k machinery(feeder two tractors)
Lot of cash before land and sheds

My mate always says stop adding them figures or you will get out of beef

Miname

theres lads capable of anything. if he is savy enough to get the money to do it then let him at it. in college we were told theres only two ways to make money, "either stay very small or get extremely big" if he could turn a profit all be it small and keep things turning then it may be a runner however with the price of 350kg animals at the moment and the beef price where it is i would say your lining yourself up for a serious flogging, unless you can see a long way down the road. there was a lad round me here whos father passed away and was left an average size farm and the son wanted to push to the limits, (b ack in the ninties) he built what at the time was an insane sized shed for the land he had available, long story short he no longer owns the shed or the out-farm that it was built on.

AP2014

Sam Kade wrote: »

Shouldn't you be trying to talk some sense into the op on how to make money in beef instead of making presumptions about people?

I did if you read the posts....I won't know the op though and say he is in cuckoo land because he wants to try something different.

Fair play to him and best of luck to him. Sure aren't there loads of lads losing money and unwilling to change. More power to the op.

epfff

epfff wrote: »

Serious q
What sorta money to build shed for 200 weanlings
20 bays of slats with 4 bays of concrete floor for sad cases?
You will need 100k min stock 100k machinery(feeder two tractors)
Lot of cash before land and sheds

My mate always says stop adding them figures or you will get out of beef

Sorry forgot straw and meal sheds
I have 15 bays and old haysheds etc here but they have being built with grants over 2 lifetimes

Gilroy

epfff wrote: »

Sorry forgot straw and meal sheds
I have 15 bays and old haysheds etc here but they have being built with grants over 2 lifetimes

Ur lucky to have sheds. I was given rough enough farm and am slowly building farm up. No sheds here... yet...

farm14

Gilroy wrote: »

Hi all,

Thinking about building sheds to house 200 cattle. Buy in 220kg to 300kg weanling bulls and castrate.

Fatten snd sell back in the mart at 450 / 500kg.

I know it hards to make money but got to try something to expand. On 50acres here, so could zero graze it also as an option or bale all 50 acres for feed with 1kg rolled barley per head.

Alot of repayments & interest their. Give €650-700 for weanling. Again you add up everything commision transport machinery running costs silage meal etc their wont be alot in it. Not very optimistic I know but beef is a tricky business to make money from. Think long & hard whatever you do. Study all enterprises & compare profitability & decide which will give you the best return. No point working for banks.

My advice is milk cows off it get the heifers contract reared sell the bull calves. Make a good income & eventually expand your business. Very hard to generate surplus cash from beef. Your return on investment will be sh*t

einn32

Go milk forty cows off it instead if you want to expand in farming. You will need another income with it to live but your business will generate more money for repayments etc. If you're sticking at beef then don't do anything major. While most lads would like to build sheds and have machinery the reality is the margins are too small for a farmer with 50 acres. Best of luck with your choice.

freedominacup

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

200 weanlings on 50 acres...Aside from everything else would this even be allowed with the Nitrates directive

Neighbour is doing 120 weanling to finish on around 40 acres. His reseeding programme and silage quality would put the vast majority of dairy farmers in the shade. He's running one of the toughest farms in my locality. At least half of it is reclaimed and he has a digger in most years doing a bit more. No cattle at all on farm from June to September. Three to four cuts of top quality silage. To my untrained eye really top class suckled bulls.

He could tell you to the penny what his costs are and has developed his system over a number of years. He made mistakes no doubt and could write a book on acclimatising weanlings to a new environment. This experience has built in costs to his system but he would day that a known cost for prevention is far better than an open ended one for treatment.

Big difference between him and what the op is proposing is that his winter facilities have been developed over time and at min cost. Not a lot of borrowings there in general I would think. Frightening how often the meal lorry goes in there when he's fully up with all cattle on full finishing ration. Machinery is one 2wd 80hp with a loader, fert spreader and mower. He changed from bales to wagon in the past couple of years.

LivInt20

Gilroy wrote: »

Hi all,

Thinking about building sheds to house 200 cattle. Buy in 220kg to 300kg weanling bulls and castrate.

Fatten snd sell back in the mart at 450 / 500kg.

I know it hards to make money but got to try something to expand. On 50acres here, so could zero graze it also as an option or bale all 50 acres for feed with 1kg rolled barley per head.

Do a budget, projected cashflow and profit and loss account.

Once you have this done, if it says you are making money bang ahead.

Otherwise stay clear.

onyerbikepat

OP, Have you done any financial figures yet? Do them for different scenarios, beef price, meal price etc and get back to us.

Farmer Pudsey

OP you will be hard pressed to stay afloat for 2-3 years if you even last that long. You will need two 6 bay tanks with 16' slats and about 4-6 straw beed pens. With grants being maxed it will cost you in excess of 100K for sheds. 200 weanlings at 600 each will cost 120K. To feed them indoors for 150 days it will cost well in excess of 250 euro if you want to gain 0.8-1/KG/day and that is for good quality cattle which will cost well over 600 euro.

So to start off you will need about 300K in capital before you start buying machinery. Loads of us are exiting winter finishing as costs are too high. You are thinking of entering store production with an indoor system.

The thing about it is on 50 acres you should be able to carry 60+ 350kg cattle. If you cannot make money off them that way then adding cost of crops and silage for an indoor system will not make a profit.

In spring you wil be competing with grass buyers who if cattle prices are strong will pay crazy prices for these type of cattle. Forget about it you are trying to reinvent the wheel.

Cattlepen

First of all, I have to say well done for asking opinions and being enthusiastic. It's great to see it. But please listen to the other posters, don't do it. What your thinking of doing is a complete waste of time. It's just a fact. Maybe try a few weanlings wintered out or something like that.
Some times more stock is more profit but sometimes more stock is just a bigger loss

Nettleman

AP2014 wrote: »

Why build a shed? Buy 40 in March and sell in Nov, save yourself the expensive of building a shed. Ya won't make a fortune but ya will make a few pound. No expensive feed costs.

any luck wit dem dockets the lads were asking for...

AP2014

Nettleman wrote: »

any luck wit dem dockets the lads were asking for...

Right infront of me and I have the scanner as well. The fine evenings over the last two weeks have seen me doing too much boozing. I am away out with work tomorrow and want to enjoy my wkd.

I was thinking sticking them up Tuesday evening. Very quiet around here this week with ploughing. Are you actually interested in seeing them or just the lads reactions when I put them up?

Fuxake

Why waste any more time discussing this codology?

AP2014

Fuxake wrote: »

Why waste any more time discussing this codology?

Some lads just need visual proof, don't believe there is any money in beef. I'm just surprised no one has bothered to put up a thread of ways to deal with the beef crisis.

But wait for next Tues when I put a few dockets up lads will go hell for leather at me. You'll recognize the usernames as the lads moaning in beef crisis thread and not offering many solutions. I was going to stick up a thread with some recommendations and still might but lads will be more interested how the hell I can make a miserable few pound per acre than anything else.

Sure the codology might be worth it though.

Fuxake

AP2014 wrote: »

Some lads just need visual proof, don't believe there is any money in beef. I'm just surprised no one has bothered to put up a thread of ways to deal with the beef crisis.

But wait for next Tues when I put a few dockets up lads will go hell for leather at me. You'll recognize the usernames as the lads moaning in beef crisis thread and not offering many solutions. I was going to stick up a thread with some recommendations and still might but lads will be more interested how the hell I can make a miserable few pound per acre than anything else.

Sure the codology might be worth it though.

Sorry I meant codology about building shed for 200 cattle on 50 acres

AP2014

Fuxake wrote: »

Sorry I meant codology about building shed for 200 cattle on 50 acres

Ah fair enough. Ya I can't see it working but fair play to the op with throwing it out there anyway and doing his best to think up some ways to make cash.

If I won money in the lotto I wouldn't invest in that scheme. Hope it works out for the op though.

high_beta

freedominacup wrote: »

Neighbour is doing 120 weanling to finish on around 40 acres. His reseeding programme and silage quality would put the vast majority of dairy farmers in the shade. He's running one of the toughest farms in my locality. At least half of it is reclaimed and he has a digger in most years doing a bit more. No cattle at all on farm from June to September. Three to four cuts of top quality silage. To my untrained eye really top class suckled bulls.

He could tell you to the penny what his costs are and has developed his system over a number of years. He made mistakes no doubt and could write a book on acclimatising weanlings to a new environment. This experience has built in costs to his system but he would day that a known cost for prevention is far better than an open ended one for treatment.

Big difference between him and what the op is proposing is that his winter facilities have been developed over time and at min cost. Not a lot of borrowings there in general I would think. Frightening how often the meal lorry goes in there when he's fully up with all cattle on full finishing ration. Machinery is one 2wd 80hp with a loader, fert spreader and mower. He changed from bales to wagon in the past couple of years.

sounds like a serious operator but he is still most likely earning next to nothing this year

Gilroy

Fuxake wrote: »

Sorry I meant codology about building shed for 200 cattle on 50 acres

Well I currently run 5 farms of 50acres. Stocked rate 200 per farm. Heathly profit and will be adding a sixth based on views I have got back. Good to hear the comments.

As I said earlier, farming cant stay static. You must not stop improving the profit line.

Codology brilliant...... peoples opinions are great.

TITANIUM.

Gilroy wrote: »

Well I currently run 5 farms of 50acres. Stocked rate 200 per farm. Heathly profit and will be adding a sixth based on views I have got back. Good to hear the comments.

As I said earlier, farming cant stay static. You must not stop improving the profit line.

Codology brilliant...... peoples opinions are great.

Then why do you need to ask for advice here Gilroy. Looks like you've got it all figured out.
Maybe you should be the one Handing out the advice! !!!!!!!! ;-)

Gilroy

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Then why do you need to ask for advice here Gilroy. Looks like you've got it all figured out.
Maybe you should be the one Handing out the advice! !!!!!!!! ;-)

Every man for himself. I use this form to learn also.

Gilroy

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Then why do you need to ask for advice here Gilroy. Looks like you've got it all figured out.
Maybe you should be the one Handing out the advice! !!!!!!!! ;-)

Every man for himself. I use this form to learn also.

Sam Kade

Gilroy wrote: »

Well I currently run 5 farms of 50acres. Stocked rate 200 per farm. Heathly profit and will be adding a sixth based on views I have got back. Good to hear the comments.

As I said earlier, farming cant stay static. You must not stop improving the profit line.

Codology brilliant...... peoples opinions are great.

Are you still teaching or did you give it up?