Fund Kona by Yourself (Mod post #54)

delboyfagan

There seems to be a recent trend of people qualifying for Kona and looking for people to help them fund the trip. Holding social events, fundraisers etc.

This is why of the mark for me especially when some of these people are working, have partners who are working and even grown up kids who are working.

Just my thoughts.

delboyfagan

Oh and yes I haven't and never will qualify for Kona. Please don't use the sour grapes comeback.

mirrormatrix

What's your point exactly? I'm sure they're not claiming that they're raising the money for charity. Kona is, I imagine, bloody expensive and if they have friends/family etc. that want to help fund the trip then where's the harm in that?

Wouldn't accuse you of being jealous, just of making something out of absolutely nothing.

delboyfagan

Your right it's probably making something out of nothing. Just think its a bit cheeky to be even asking friends to fund a personal trip and maybe even a holiday thrown in.

tunney

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Wouldn't accuse you of being jealous, just of making something out of absolutely nothing.

It is rather irritating and people get irritated about lots of things. Personally this does annoy me, but not as much as Gerry Duffy.

mirrormatrix wrote: »

What's your point exactly? I'm sure they're not claiming that they're raising the money for charity. Kona is, I imagine, bloody expensive and if they have friends/family etc. that want to help fund the trip then where's the harm in that?

Kona is expensive, I'm not claiming I've any intention of (or ability to) qualified, but if I did qualify I would be at the Slots ceremony to loudly decline my slot and to take a little solace from the look on the person's face getting the roll down. Why decline? I cannot afford to go.

I suspect what is annoying delboyfagan is that this "fund my holiday to kona" is a symptom of a problem that we see repeated over and over again in today's society. Expecting others to fund their lifestyle. Be it public sector workers and lavish pensions which are not funded even with the levies, or scummers getting endless social welfare handouts because they keep popping out the next generation of scroungers. Pay for your own life, your own choices. If you cannot afford it don't do it.

mloc123

The country has a huge sense of entitlement.

You see it everywhere from people wanting free houses as they are having a child (hint, can't afford your rent? Don't add on the extra expense of a child) all the way up to those that want their mortgages written off.

Personally I would feel embarrassed begging for money to go on a holiday.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

This is a bug bearer of mine, it is nothing short of begging imo! Don't accept a fvking slot if you cannot afford it, really is that simple.

Package it anyway you want but it's paying for a very nice, some might say a trip of a lifetime for someone.

Oryx

I have a friend who is going. There is a fundraiser for her, which she did not set up, and is a little embarrassed about, but she appreciates that her friends want to do this for her. She is not going cap in hand.

Like tunney, if I qualified I would also turn it down, as I cannot spend that kind of money on a vanity trip. I spend too much on this hobby as it is. I certainly wouldnt take the slot and then hope I can tap my mates for funds.

My current signature makes this a little ironic, I realise. First and only time I've ever fundraised, and its optional. If I dont get donations, I stump up myself (as I have already done).

fully floating

Anybody know a ballpark figure for a trip to kona

Oryx

fully floating wrote: »

Anybody know a ballpark figure for a trip to kona

Flights and accommodation for one, 2.5k approx. Slot is 800 I think.

catweazle

A very thorny issue - I had a friend collecting 10 grand for some Tony O Reilly rugby charity - whereby he would fund the girl who collected the 10k an all expenses trip to New Zealand for the rugby world cup with tickets for the Irish matches and a quarter final I think thrown in. I think there was a 100k walk thrown in there somewhere as well spread out over a few days.

I knew her well and told her she had a massive neck coming to me looking to fund what I would call a holiday of a lifetime for the girl, however she didn't see it like that at all and said if no-one had a go and collected it the charity was missing out completely

I could kinda see her point but I would have been too embarrassed myself to go fund raising for it.

Fund raising for a Kona trip....no I wouldn't be putting my hands in my pockets helping out for that

bryangiggsy

Oryx wrote: »

Like tunney, if I qualified I would also turn it down, as I cannot spend that kind of money on a vanity trip..

Why would you call it a vanity trip?


I donated as i was glad to help out fulfill someones dream which might come not come around again

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Why would you call it a vanity trip?


I donated as i was glad to help out fulfill someones dream which might come not come around again

I think this is the one and only time that I will use this internet slang as it fits the occasion so well.

LOLZ

Oryx

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Why would you call it a vanity trip?


I donated as i was glad to help out fulfill someones dream which might come not come around again

For me that's what it would be.

bryangiggsy

Oryx wrote: »

For me that's what it would be.

Maybe if you took a lottery slot.

fully floating

Oryx wrote: »

Flights and accommodation for one, 2.5k approx. Slot is 800 I think.

So 3 months mortgage repayments couldn't justify it myself, luckily it will never be a problem

coL

I agree, there is no way I would give someone money to do something that they do recreationally as their hobby.

To me its very simple if you cant afford it don't do it. I would love a new TT bike but I don't have the funds for it so I use my road bike. I don't try to raise money from friends and neighbours to help me buy a P5.

If you don't have the money try to get sponsorship or something at least but don't hit up your friends and neighbours to try to get them to pay for a trip to Hawaii. A lifetime opportunity it may well be but we all know people, either personally or anecdotally, who couldn't take up their slot for financial reasons.

@delboyfagan Do you know of specific instances of this happening or are you speaking generally? From your example it seems that these people are being extremely cheeky by not even trying to dress it up with the "I'm doing it for charity" line.

Not trying to hijack the thread but if I could diverge slightly into the charity aspect for a minute I would be keen to get peoples opinion on events/challenges/experiences that are done in the name of charity.

I have seen an instance in the past where a person was climbing Mount Kilimanjaro for charity. The amount that was going to be donated was only going to be what was left over after the trip was paid for and less a percentage for the guys expenses. The way I look at it this guy was collecting so he could climb this mountain for free. What is the fairest way to pay for something when you do it for charity and what should your contribution be beyond actually doing the event?

Is the charity and how they are going to use the money a consideration? Given the recent revelations about payments to charity bosses how confident would you be that the money you collect wont go into the pension/salary/expenses of one of the executives and would you feel responsible for this misuse if people donated to a charity because it was the charity you selected? I am planning to do a half ironman in November as well as the Abu Dhabi Triathlon Olympic equivalent in March, I will pay for them out of my own money whatever happens but would love to collect for two charities that mean a lot for me. However, I don't feel that I can ask people to donate money in good conscience without knowing for definite that the money wont be misspent. Sure the websites for these charities say it wont but I am cynical by nature and it will take more than that to convince me given all that has happened.

I don't mean for this to be rant but it just happened to be something that I was giving some thought to recently. I will leave you with this final thought, when it comes to charity Irish people lose track of what is important (supporting a worthy cause) while getting carried away with the fact that they are doing something for charity. Loads of examples but the one that jumps out is the one in Kerry recently where three truck drivers decided to raise money for charity by driving three trucks abreast (taking up the whole road) on a stretch of the Castleisland-Tralee road. They didn't tell the police they were going to do it and the road wasn't closed when they did it. Does the fact they were doing it for charity make it ok or acceptable? The judge didn't think so (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/truck-drivers-jailed-for-two-nights-for-charity-race-on-youtube-29625455.html) and I don't think anyone else would either.

It seems to be that when something is done in the name of charity all rational thought goes out the window and people give money without thinking what it is for and how it will be used.

sconhome

There are a number of athletes across a host of different tracks & fields all using a crowd funding platform to raise money to fund their recreational aspirations.

I'm all for supporting sports and development of sports but surely when someone is of a certain caliber for competition then is it not the role of governing bodies or Olympic councils to identify and fund that talent?

I agree with the majority of the comments if you can't afford it you don't raise your hand. If it is your dream to go to the olympics or race Kona or represent Ireland then surely you should have been saving up all along so that you can fulfill your dream. Really, is it still your dream if someone else fulfills it for you?

Having said that I might change my mind when Team TriHarder are looking to go to Godzone within the next 10 years or so I always wanted to go to New Zealand but couldn't afford it it's a dream of mine!!

mossym

don't think it's an irish problem, been plenty of these in the us/on kickstarter funding races/trips.

some are doing it to fund going pro, including one of the irish underagers.

my biggest issue is with the ones that turn a holiday in a crowdsourcing opp. "I'm going to cycle from one European city to another, stopping in the most scenic stops along the way. i'll nominate a charity, pay for my costs out of what's raised, give the rest to charity, and have a free jolly around europe, while everyone thinks i'm great for raising money for charity"

seen more than one of them, annoys the hell out of me.

griffin100

I did my first ever Triathlon for charity. I paid for the entry fee, and I asked some of my suppliers to donate via their companies. I didn't ask any individuals for money (but I still got some). I raised about €2,500 and I was delighted with that. People gave money because the idea of me doing a tri at that stage was laughable and people were curious to see if i could do it. If I asked for money now I'd be told to feck off.

Someone in my club recently did her first IM in Europe. She paid all her own travel, entry fees, etc - but asked for charity donations, which people gave based on the fact again that this was someone doing their first IM off a limited tri background and they wanted to mark this. This I think is ok as a once off. Only the charity benefited in this case.

The concept of asking for donations to do something that in itself has to be paid for by the donations really pisses me off. I want to climb Kilimanjaro, ok, so I'll get someone else to pay for my travel, accommodation and whatever else is left over charity can have. That's bull**** of the highest order. Same applies to Kona in my book. Any AG'er who qualifies for Kona has done so as part of their hobby and tbh it's hardly going to be unexpected. They should be prepared to pay for it themselves. Whatever about my charity donation being used to pay for charity staff salaries (and I have no issue with this within reason) I'd be pissed off it was used to pay for a new power meter on someones bike or a new tri suit, which is essentially the same as using donations to pay your airfare to Hawaii.

Just my 2c

bryangiggsy

This is were i draw the line.. Marie Keating pros at it.

http://irishcharitychallenges.com/documents/france.pdf


Off topic
Out of curiosity did anyone who has commented on this thread so far donate to any charity last year? Am not talking a fiver here or a tenner there sponsor a line in work.

Oryx

bryangiggsy wrote: »

This is were i draw the line.. Marie Keating pros at it.

http://irishcharitychallenges.com/documents/france.pdf


Off topic
Out of curiosity did anyone who has commented on this thread so far donate to any charity last year? Am not talking a fiver here or a tenner there sponsor a line in work.

I sponsor a child, have done for years. Donate to the hospice foundation every christmas. Altrustic as hell, me.

coL

Surely when you make the decision to turn pro you should consider what the effect will be financially if you are not successful initially? Or am I being too pragmatic?

I knew the brother of an Irish golfer who turned pro back in 2002ish and one of the main factors in his decision on whether or not to turn pro was if he had enough money to cover the first years entry fees and travel expenses if he didn't win anything.

Unfortunately the harsh reality of this world is that we all have to cut our cloth to measure. If we choose a living that we love but we cant make a living from then something needs to give. Living the dream is admirable and I would encourage anyone to go for it but sometimes there are other factors which have to be taken into consideration such as who will pay for you to live the dream.

One thing I always wonder about the likes of the Marie Keating walks is they say you have to collect a certain amount but walking the south of France is hardly hardship and once you take flights, food and accommodation into consideration surely the amount the charity gets is a lot less. Would you not have been better off just giving all the money straight to a deserving charity if you really want to contribute?

LaGlisse

The ONLY way stuff like Tri/swims etc should be used to raise money for charity by an individual is when they cover all costs incurred in doing the event themselves. All money collected should go to the charity. Anything else is spoofing. There is events around that do things right but an awful lot of spoofing too, which seems particularly prevalent on social media. Kilamanjaro seems like a magnet for it, id say irish people have funded some amount of jollies to africa under the guise of charity

68 lost souls

gaa clubs and soccer teams fund raise all the time to send groups away to play matches they do bag packing etc . I see no difference in this and collecting for Kona

rainbow kirby

LaGlisse wrote: »

The ONLY way stuff like Tri/swims etc should be used to raise money for charity by an individual is when they cover all costs incurred in doing the event themselves.

Agree with this - and it also bothers me how many places are reserved for charity runners in races here. I did the Great North Run (ballot place) earlier this month and felt like the odd one out from people who finished in around 2 hours (yes, I'm slow) because I wasn't wearing a charity top. London Marathon is a bit of a joke in that respect, to the best of my knowledge there are actually more charity guaranteed spots than UK ballot places.

delboyfagan

Col pm sent

pointer28

Oryx wrote: »

I have a friend who is going. There is a fundraiser for her, which she did not set up, and is a little embarrassed about, but she appreciates that her friends want to do this for her. She is not going cap in hand.

Like tunney, if I qualified I would also turn it down, as I cannot spend that kind of money on a vanity trip. I spend too much on this hobby as it is. I certainly wouldnt take the slot and then hope I can tap my mates for funds.

My current signature makes this a little ironic, I realise. First and only time I've ever fundraised, and its optional. If I dont get donations, I stump up myself (as I have already done).

If this is the person I am thinking of and read about in the Local Newspaper recently, she is one person who most definitely deserves it.

Oryx

pointer28 wrote: »

If this is the person I am thinking of and read about in the Local Newspaper recently, she is one person who most definitely deserves it.

It is and she does. A very inspiring lady.

Dilbert75

Oryx wrote: »

It is and she does. A very inspiring lady.

I'm looking forward to that tomorrow actually, for two reasons: I've read the books and heard Gerry Duffy speak before (DCM 13); I spoke to the lady in question at the Wex Tri Club open night last year (think I might have been talking to Oryx there too!) and was mighty impressed by her, so I'm happy to support her trip and get something for me in return. There's no pretence that it's anything other than what it is so I respect that.

In contrast, I can't stand the pseudo-charity trips where people raise a load of money for charity but spend a load of it funding the trip. When I've raised sponsorship before I too funded the events myself.

tunney

I work in the IFSC and walking into work today I can see lots of people begging for money. I'm sure that they are nice people but I don't give them anything because it encourages begging and money isn't always the answer. A genuine case gets a sandwich, tea or similar.

I'm not suggesting that the person in question that sparked this thread will spend the money on drink and drugs rather than a hostel, or flights to Hawaii. However if I *had* to give money to someone it would not be to fly someone around the world to compete in an event that has zero impact on anyone else in the world.

There are nice people all over the world that want lots of nice things.
There are also nice people all over the world that need very basic things to survive and thrive.

Perspective people.

MaryB30

If you qualify for Kona or similar which is an epic achievement you have overcome so much to do that in the first case. To turn down the opportunity of a life time at the risk of fundraising or being fund raised for, I think is biting off your nose to spite your face. (Leaving other fundraising methods aside which I agree are dubious!)

I see this from a personal position that if I were to qualify (never happen):o I would turn hell and high water to get there. Down to the Credit Union, Dodgy lender or whatever.

Plus bear in mind you don't have to contribute. The same way you dont have to buy local Gaa/Soccer Club/Rugby lotto tickets.

In a local case people are choosing to contribute. I like the person thats why I am, others are not, no problem and good luck to them.

delboyfagan

I am aware that some people have overcome personal obstacles to get to Kona - it still doesn't alter my opinion.

Peterx

*waffle alert*

I like these type of discussions. It all starts out a bit Yes or No but sure enough after a while a little grey seeps in, along with some perspective.

I generally race an awful lot and therefore usually wouldn't dream of asking anyone to pay for my lifestyle choices. My colleague here in work is passing around a collection card as he is doing a Run-a-muck event soon. I contributed as he ;

a: hasn't run as far as a bus since leaving school
b: the chap has never pushed a card under my nose
c: the cause is both 100% deserving and small enough that all the money raised goes direct to the cause (it has no employees essentially)

He is paying for his entry to the mud race and you never know, he might even decide he likes running afterwards.

The bigger charity events generally turn me off, either as I think much of the money is spent on employee wages or I really dislike their marketing strategy. I cannot understand why so many charities believe offering €1000 to the winner will help their cause. Attempting to entice selfish elites doesn't work and even if it does the very point and essence of elites is that there is only a few of them! The strategy certainly doesn't attract 100's of non-elite entrants.
On the other hand the bigger charities have their place, thankfully usually far far away from this peaceful little country.

In general I try to avoid charity events. They (broad strokes here folks) tend to be poorly organised on the points that matter to me - timing, correct distance, clear rules - and high on waffle. Like this post.

Simply trying to fundraise the flight fare to go to Kona is perfectly acceptable though. If you judge that the person's case is deserving than contribute.

coL

Fair play to anyone who has overcome any type of adversity to achieve something that is important to them. But like I said before we have each heard of people not being able to take their Kona slot for financial reasons and is it really fair if the person who benefits from a roll down gets financial help to compete when the person who passed up on the slot in the first place didn't?

Its all well and good saying that others started collecting for someone without their knowledge but the option remains open to pay for it yourself and donate all the collected money to charity. Surely when someone accepts something like a Kona slot they must be some bit confident that they can manage it financially on their own as they won't know how much or how little they could potentially get through fundraising? This then raises the question does the fundraising just become a top-up to make it a proper jolly?

Personally I wouldn't let people pay for me to do something like Kona as they may feel it makes you beholden to them and all of a sudden what you do with and how you spend your money will be scrutinised in minute detail. The fundraising could be the difference between going with a road bike and staying in a 2 star hotel or flying there business class, staying in a 5 star hotel and racing on a fully spec'd tt bike (extreme example I know). The expectations of those donating must be managed with the reality of the situation and the persons financial capacity i.e. can they really not afford it or will the money be used for non-essentials.

The charities are a perfect example of this, when people were donating where did they think the money was going and if they knew exactly where it was going would they have donated?

With enough money you can climb Everest or go to either one of the Poles but is it right to ask people to fund this dream for you and at what point do you draw the line at funding another persons dream?

I will say though that I have more respect for someone who straight out says its for them to go do something rather than someone who collects in the name of charity to do something they want and from which the charity will see very little benefit from.

Peterx

Just fundraise for your flight/powermeter/massages in your own name.
Mention no charity and avoid either piggy backing or accusations.

Keep an eye out for new entrant abstacle course races. They can tend to offer €1000 for the winner, winning team. Handy money with the right team in place although if Bryan Keane shows up the winner's prize is probably goneski:)

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

I am currently looking at the cost of an event which i really want to do *read as a dream of mine to do when 40yo* and will likely cost 4x as much as a typical trip to Kona with support crews etc.
1. I will do this off my own dime, if it comes through.
2. I will not be seeking sponsorship from individuals to fund my dream/mid life crisis
3. I will likely do for a charity where all proceeds go to the chairty and not fund the trip. Someone might as well gain from some suffering on my part.

Some people are just different in how they view and do things.

Podge83

I went to the event in mentioned above last night. I had a great night listening to some good talks and indeed was entertained. I also enjoyed meeting friends, runners, swimmers and triathletes who I know but meet very seldom.

If the same show was put on by the hotel as a commercial event i would have said that it was good value. I don't see it as a donation, but am glad to know that its funding a dream for someone who I am happy to support. I wouldn't say that about too many.

If you have a problem with any events like these stay away from them!!!

I hope the funds enable her to hire a sports car, 4 star accommodation and a PA for the trip.

Dilbert75

Exactly the same Podge.

Oryx

I was there too, (nice to meet you Dilbert!) and agree, it was value for the price of the ticket. She didnt ask for this event, but she did deserve it.

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

I was there too, (nice to meet you Dilbert!) and agree, it was value for the price of the ticket. She didnt ask for this event, but she did deserve it.

Can I ask why she deserves it?

I know nothing about the lady FYI

Oryx

tunney wrote: »

Can I ask why she deserves it?

I know nothing about the lady FYI

Not gonna tell her story here. PM ya if youre really bothered.

RacoonQueen

I assume that this who the people of Wexford are talking about, I'm not sure it this is the person the OP was talking about
<Snip> let people do their own detective work rather than naming individuals

littlemsfickle

I guess for me it would depend on who was asking. If it were a friend at the same level as me then no, I wouldn't be keen to pay for them to go on a holiday which I couldn't afford to do myself. However I thought that the objective behind these kickstarter appeals was to provide a source of funding to top athletes who are competing at a high level but don't meet the criteria for sports council funding. In this case you're helping to enable a good athlete with the talent to do well to reach their potential, not indulging a vanity.

That said, as a poor student I couldn't afford to donate either way....

Podge83

Clarification required

Now that a specific person who has been "outed" and inadvertently dragged into this thread as a discussion topic, a little clarification is required.

Oryx has laid out above that this person didn't arrange this event herself and indeed was a little embarrassed about it.

Members of a club she is a member of (not the tri club) arranged the night independent of her and because they wanted to sponsor her participation in the World Championship of the sport in which she participates and to which she legitimately qualified for.

This is not someone trying to fund a jolly by looking for handouts or hassling anyone for money. An event, which had costs involved and in some ways was a risk to arrange was set up by others, advertised and promoted very well and made a success.

If Base2Race, Wheelworx, Velo or some other entity intervened with similar sponsorship nothing would be said. I probably agree with some of the sentiments against the sort of fund raising referred to above by posters on the other side of this debate (frankly that's none of my business) and I wouldn't post on this thread but for the fact someone is being discussed who should not be based on the original topic of the thread.

I really hope she doesn't read this thread!

Oryx

I did not want her identified and she would be deeply embarrassed to be discussed in this way. But I will say she is one of the most positive, cheerful and determined people I have ever had the privilege to meet and train with.

RacoonQueen

Sorry guys assumed people knew who yee were talking about since it was in the 'news'

To be honest, I would happily sponsor her as an exception to the rule but in a case raised by lilmissfickle I definitely wouldn't. Plenty of things like New York, London Marathons etc that people can do for 'charity' and need to raise a few K for but that pays for their entry, a party, t-shirt, training stuff, accommodation, transfers...I wouldn't sponsor in that case unless they were putting in 500 quid or so themselves (paying that portion of things themselves) I'm not paying for someone else to go on holiday / do the race of their dreams. I think this lady in Wexford is a unique case...

jamescantwell

I agree with most comments on this, that if you qualify for kona, you should be prepared to stump up the cash yourself and also if you're raising money by doing an event, you must pay for entry,flights, accom, food etc yourself and total and ALL money must go to the charity..theres so much abuse of charities and by charities in the last while, its very hard to know what's genuine when you donate!!...that marie keating thing is a bit much...surely doing an event to raise money for charity should be about comparitive hardship and suffering during the event? otherwise, why would people donate for it?

bryangiggsy

jamescantwell wrote: »

I agree with most comments on this, that if you qualify for kona, you should be prepared to stump up the cash yourself and also if you're raising money by doing an event, you must pay for entry,flights, accom, food etc yourself and total and ALL money must go to the charity..theres so much abuse of charities and by charities in the last while, its very hard to know what's genuine when you donate!!...that marie keating thing is a bit much...surely doing an event to raise money for charity should be about comparitive hardship and suffering during the event? otherwise, why would people donate for it?

Its important to also point out there are good charities out there... Charities that do great work were the services don't exist otherwise. It s so easy for people out there who don't bother donating to any charity to pick the one bad apple and take the moral high ground while at the same time damaging the good that a lot of charities do. I know that its off topic but I felt worthwhile pointing out.

jamescantwell

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Its important to also point out there are good charities out there... Charities that do great work were the services don't exist otherwise. It s so easy for people out there who don't bother donating to any charity to pick the one bad apple and take the moral high ground while at the same time damaging the good that a lot of charities do. I know that its off topic but I felt worthwhile pointing out.

Yea I agree with you 100%, there are certainly good charities in Ireland, but the point still stands though that a minority of people are abusing the notion of fundraising for charity in order to fund a lovely holiday abroad..

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Its important to also point out there are good charities out there... Charities that do great work were the services don't exist otherwise. It s so easy for people out there who don't bother donating to any charity to pick the one bad apple and take the moral high ground while at the same time damaging the good that a lot of charities do. I know that its off topic but I felt worthwhile pointing out.

but by people funding the charities then there is no obligation on the government to properly use the tax payers money to fund vital services.

Jobs for the lads, multiple pensions for the politicians, stupid rates of welfare. But no services.