Civil Service Promotion Opportunity - Should I go for it?

angel eyes 2012

Hi All, I'd like to hear some opinions. Finally, after nearly 8 years of no movement, some internal opportunities have arisen in my Department. However, the tables have turned some what, in that anyone can apply for any grade higher than their existing grade. i.e. a Clerical Officer may apply for the HEO, an EO may apply for the AP.

I was going to apply for the HEO, I am an EO (it will be my first time applying). Should I also throw my hat in the ring for the AP or would I be completely in over my head. I'm fairly confident in interviews and I would be more applying for the AP for the experience but I don't want to look big headed either. Any thoughts - I'd especially like to hear from some senior civil servants who have experience of sitting on such panels. Thanks!

Slydice

I'm in a similar position to you. No promotion competition in my place yet though.

I don't think it can go against you in the future if you were to go for the AP position. I imagine the interviews would be a bit tougher than the HEO. But like... if you qualify for the competition you are allowed.

I haven't heard of anyone doing it yet. Would be interesting to see though.

Good luck if you do! :-)

Monife

Definitely go for it, you never know, you might be what they are looking for. I don't think it is big headed if you are in your job 8 years. My HEO went from CO (on probation) to HEO. Good luck, it will be good experience anyway.

The_Conductor

Put your best foot forward.
Which Department is it by the way?

MouseTail

Absolutely go for it. It will be viewed as ambitious rather than bigheaded. After years of bright, ambitious people being stuck in grades below their competencies and capabilities, it will be expected that those with ambitition and gumption seek to go for any and all promotional opportunities.

Buona Fortuna

When I've sat on promotion boards a question might be

"this job was advertised 6 months ago , did you apply?"

Yes. "why don't you think you were successful" - easy answers around more experienced or eligible candidates, more of a chance to round off your experience ....

No. "why" - difficult answers about not being ready, not having the confidence ....

Go for it.

angel eyes 2012

The_Conductor wrote: »

Put your best foot forward.
Which Department is it by the way?

I'd prefer not to say. I don't anticipate there will be many posts at all but they are creating panels which is a positive start.

The_Conductor

Well- the very best of good luck- definitely put your best foot forward- and I'd also suggest you sit down with the PO- to work out the competency framework- and seek his/her assistance in helping you strengthen the examples you have. Most POs- see people like you as a reflection on them- and will go that extra mile to try and help you in any way possible.

Please some back here in a years time- and tell us you're a new APO!

angel eyes 2012

Thanks Conductor. I reviewed some of your posts relating to the Civil Service and you have provided some helpful advice and tips. I still haven't made up my mind but I will finish the forms and take it from there.

barneystinson

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Thanks Conductor. I reviewed some of your posts relating to the Civil Service and you have provided some helpful advice and tips. I still haven't made up my mind but I will finish the forms and take it from there.

In a recent AP competition where I work, they cut 8% of applicants before the preliminary interview / presentation stage, hitherto unheard of. Can you guess who got cut? Only people I know who got cut were AO's serving more than 1 year (and therefore eligible to compete) and less than 2 years (the old cut-off). I don't know any EO's who applied, but I have a sneaky feeling you'll find they featured in the cull too... Just because the EU has said things have to change doesn't mean they actually will in practice!

When I applied for an open AP competition a couple of years back, a lady CO in the same office as me applied, meeting the criteria by virtue of a Masters she'd done. AFAIK she's a good CO, but hadn't a hope in hell of demonstrating any managerial track record to satisfy an AP standard. She was clearly deluded.

I suppose all I'm saying is, be realistic and objective. If you can genuinely come up with solid examples of the competences for the form and are confident you can back them up at interview, then go for it. If you can't, don't.

Aglomerado

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Hi All, I'd like to hear some opinions. Finally, after nearly 8 years of no movement, some internal opportunities have arisen in my Department. However, the tables have turned some what, in that anyone can apply for any grade higher than their existing grade. i.e. a Clerical Officer may apply for the HEO, an EO may apply for the AP.

I was going to apply for the HEO, I am an EO (it will be my first time applying). Should I also throw my hat in the ring for the AP or would I be completely in over my head. I'm fairly confident in interviews and I would be more applying for the AP for the experience but I don't want to look big headed either. Any thoughts - I'd especially like to hear from some senior civil servants who have experience of sitting on such panels. Thanks!

Go for it OP. I'm also an EO and I tried last year for an open AP level promotion. I passed the exam and met all the criteria and was invited to interview. Ok, I wasn't successful in getting onto the panel for the job but it was a very valuable experience. There is an AO competition and possibly an AP competition coming up in the near future and I will be trying again for both.

Don't worry about seeming big headed. There can be (stress: CAN be) a culture of begrudgery in the CS - "so and so getting big for their boots" kind of thing. I met a CO from the same department at the exam who was anxious that no-one would find out about their application, for this very reason. But if you are ambitious and feel you have the ability, go for it!

I'd agree with the previous poster about talking to your PO. Best of luck!

mozattack

I see that the OP has been recommended to speak to their PO about how to achieve those competencies.

Is this realistic?

Why should the PO care?

noodler

mozattack wrote: »

I see that the OP has been recommended to speak to their PO about how to achieve those competencies.

Is this realistic?

Why should the PO care?

Yes.

I'd suggest the OP's own AP as well though.

MouseTail

mozattack wrote: »

I see that the OP has been recommended to speak to their PO about how to achieve those competencies.

Is this realistic?

Why should the PO care?

Because there is a certain kudos and respect that comes from promotions within your section.

barneystinson

MouseTail wrote: »

Because there is a certain kudos and respect that comes from promotions within your section.

There might be a "certain kudos" but if they have 3 HEOs and 5 EOs going for an AP competition and a HEO competition they ain't gonna be sitting down with them all individually to explain what the form already says on it.

Unless they've got nothing better to be doing... (feckin civil servants..)

The_Conductor

barneystinson wrote: »

There might be a "certain kudos" but if they have 3 HEOs and 5 EOs going for an AP competition and a HEO competition they ain't gonna be sitting down with them all individually to explain what the form already says on it.

Unless they've got nothing better to be doing... (feckin civil servants..)

I don't understand where you're coming from with your attitude to be honest.

Most POs are proud of their staff and will go the extra mile to see them succeed. If they are able to help an EO with a competition that may mean they are promoted a few grades- most jump at the opportunity to help.

Contrary to what you're saying- most POs are very hard working- and never really leave work- however managing their staff and assisting them in their career development- is part of their job description- as surely as is allocating the resources at their disposal in the best possible manner.

Your comment indicates you have some sort of a chip on your shoulder about civil servants- perhaps it might be preferable to leave your prejudices at the door and respond in a civil manner to the OP instead?

Aglomerado

The_Conductor wrote: »

I don't understand where you're coming from with your attitude to be honest.

Most POs are proud of their staff and will go the extra mile to see them succeed. If they are able to help an EO with a competition that may mean they are promoted a few grades- most jump at the opportunity to help.

Contrary to what you're saying- most POs are very hard working- and never really leave work- however managing their staff and assisting them in their career development- is part of their job description- as surely as is allocating the resources at their disposal in the best possible manner.

Your comment indicates you have some sort of a chip on your shoulder about civil servants- perhaps it might be preferable to leave your prejudices at the door and respond in a civil manner to the OP instead?

+1. I have always found the POs I've worked with to be supportive and encouraging for staff development.

barneystinson

The_Conductor wrote: »

I don't understand where you're coming from with your attitude to be honest.

Most POs are proud of their staff and will go the extra mile to see them succeed. If they are able to help an EO with a competition that may mean they are promoted a few grades- most jump at the opportunity to help.

Contrary to what you're saying- most POs are very hard working- and never really leave work- however managing their staff and assisting them in their career development- is part of their job description- as surely as is allocating the resources at their disposal in the best possible manner.

Your comment indicates you have some sort of a chip on your shoulder about civil servants- perhaps it might be preferable to leave your prejudices at the door and respond in a civil manner to the OP instead?

My attitude (which you're misreading due to your irony detector being switched off - the point of that last comment being that they have plenty of other stuff to be getting on with), is based on my own experience in the service.

Maybe it's different in areas where competitions don't come around very often, but there's been lots of competitions where I am and with so many applying (an EO comp, a HEO comp, an AO comp and 2 x AP comps in 2014), that POs would be fulltime doing nothing but prepping staff if they were to take an individual interest in every application.

A big part of a POs job is delegating, and in my experience its been the APs who provide the guidance you're talking about, with regard to helping with the competences etc...

So I'm not suggesting the OP shouldn't / won't get help, I'd just start lower than the PO!

noodler

barneystinson wrote: »

My attitude (which you're misreading due to your irony detector being switched off - the point of that last comment being that they have plenty of other stuff to be getting on with), is based on my own experience in the service.

Maybe it's different in areas where competitions don't come around very often, but there's been lots of competitions where I am and with so many applying (an EO comp, a HEO comp, an AO comp and 2 x AP comps in 2014), that POs would be fulltime doing nothing but prepping staff if they were to take an individual interest in every application.

A big part of a POs job is delegating, and in my experience its been the APs who provide the guidance you're talking about, with regard to helping with the competences etc...

So I'm not suggesting the OP shouldn't / won't get help, I'd just start lower than the PO!

It is an AP competition we are talking about though - just one grade below PO.


I'd talk to your AP first OP.

angel eyes 2012

Hi, I just thought I would update the thread. Well I went for both interviews, and I am delighted to say I was successful in the HEO competition. The AP interview was first and it really prepared me for the HEO interview as I was more relaxed and confident. I am so pleased, as I have worked really hard since I started in the service and I was starting to think the civil service wasn't for me. Thank you for all the advice and yes the Principal Officer was a great help!

barneystinson

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Hi, I just thought I would update the thread. Well I went for both interviews, and I am delighted to say I was successful in the HEO competition. The AP interview was first and it really prepared me for the HEO interview as I was more relaxed and confident. I am so pleased, as I have worked really hard since I started in the service and I was starting to think the civil service wasn't for me. Thank you for all the advice and yes the Principal Officer was a great help!

Congrats and well done!

The_Conductor

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Hi, I just thought I would update the thread. Well I went for both interviews, and I am delighted to say I was successful in the HEO competition. The AP interview was first and it really prepared me for the HEO interview as I was more relaxed and confident. I am so pleased, as I have worked really hard since I started in the service and I was starting to think the civil service wasn't for me. Thank you for all the advice and yes the Principal Officer was a great help!

Well done Angel Eyes- I'm thrilled to hear your good news. Really well done.

boobar

angel eyes 2012 wrote: »

Hi, I just thought I would update the thread. Well I went for both interviews, and I am delighted to say I was successful in the HEO competition. The AP interview was first and it really prepared me for the HEO interview as I was more relaxed and confident. I am so pleased, as I have worked really hard since I started in the service and I was starting to think the civil service wasn't for me. Thank you for all the advice and yes the Principal Officer was a great help!

Good for you Angel Eyes 2012