I want to get rid of my daughter. <Read MOD warning POST #1>

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 4:40pm #1

MOD WARNING
From this point all other such posts will be INFRACTED and posters may be banned.
The OP has come here for advice, and while it is an emotive subject the only result of hurling abuse will be chasing the OP away instead of helping them deal with their issues.

Regrettably,
Taltos

My husband and I have six children and another on the way. Our children are 12, 10, 8, 6, 5 and 2. Our eldest son suffered a lack of oxygen at birth and sustained brain damage which means he needs constant supervision and help, and will for the rest of his life. Four of the other children are lovely to him and are no trouble. Unfortunately my five year old daughter is, quite frankly, an evil cow. You will no doubt think terribly of me for saying that but my husband and I are at the end of our tethers with her.

She is extremely violent to all of the other children - biting them, giving them Chinese burns, hitting them with things and pushing them. She even does this to the 2 year old and my disabled boy. She is so violent that even the older ones are scared of her and she is constantly bullying them and driving them to tears. And I mean CONSTANTLY - multiple times every day, she won't go even an hour without making one of them cry like this. Then she lies and says they are the ones who hurt her. I know she's lying because on numerous occasions I've waited and watched where she can't see me and the other children never hurt her, she just goes up to them and punches, kicks or bites them or gives them a Chinese burn. She now even does this to me and she does it so forcefully for a 5 year old that it even really hurts me. Or she'll come up to me, grab the skin on the back of my hand and twist and pinch it.

She is also completely disobedient, to the point of danger. For example when we are near a road and I tell her to stay on the pavement she looks at me really spitefully and then purposely walks down the middle of the road when cars are coming. I of course run out, grab her and carry her to safety which makes her kick, scream bite and pinch me. That's just one example but she is that disobedient about everything. And it's impossible to punish her. If I tell her to go to her room she won't stay there. If I give her a smack she goes mental and runs round the house destroying things and hurting the other children. She won't obey my husband either, if he shouts at her she just looks spiteful and still won't do as she's told.

She also refuses to use the toilet by herself but still insists on us wiping her bum afterwards and if we won't she just screams and screams until we do it.

Let me reiterate that this goes on all day every day, and we can't cope any more. Our oldest son needs a lot of time and attention, not to mention all the other kids. I also hate seeing the kids constantly terrified of their sister. We discussed maybe sending her to boarding school, but then wondered if that would cause problems when she gets home for the holidays as she's be getting treated differently to the others. If I am totally honest, I actually want to get rid of her completely, I want to give her to social services. Even my husband agrees. We love our other children but we are really starting to hate and dread this one.

We even hired a child psychologist to find out if there is some deep reason for her behaviour, like maybe something happened to her but he said nothing has. He tried to help us work with her to improve her behaviour but she just gets worse all the time. I am especially terrified to turn my back for a moment because I'm really worried about her seriously hurting one of the other kids one day. Please don't judge me, I just need someone to talk to about this.

fits · 23-09-2014 5:19pm

I think you need another opinion, and you need help to deal with this. Don't give up on her.

wombats · 23-09-2014 5:25pm

This sounds like very hard work but it strikes me that she may need to be assessed as this isn't normal behaviour.

Would she be looking for attention? You need further help. Handing her over to social services is not the answer. Would they even take her?

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 5:26pm

This is probably gonna sound real harsh but here goes, do you think the fact that you have 5 other kids and one severely ill is totally taking all your attention away from her. Sounds like she's acting out from lack of attention or specific time with you and daddy. I've a friend with 7 children and she cannot cope. She cannot possibly devote enough hours in the day to each child and they absolutely KILL each other all day every day. When you have so many kids how can you possibly sit down with Her for even an hour and play with her one to one? I personally think that's why she is how she is. You need to work through this. You are going to get some very harsh comments here. Seriously. I can tell from your post the sheer desperation and you feel like you can't cope, but you have to help her. You can't disown her, this behaviour sounds like a cry for help or attention.

23-09-2014 5:29pm

Hi OP
the screaming for attention sounds like maybe it's the only way to get one on one time? Of course your disabled child needs a lot of/constant time and attention, and it sounds like this younger child only gets any when she behaves badly and screams for it.
Is there any way of spending a bit of time with her one on one at all and trying to emphasise when she does good things and giving her extra attention when she does? When you're on the road are you walking quietly with her and only speaking to her to say stay on the path, or are you talking with her and giving her attention the rest of the time?

Finally is there any possibility of getting outside help for your eldest partly to help you both cope as I'm sure it's very difficult but also partly to spend more time with the others.

I'm sorry you're going through such a hard time and I can hardly imagine.

Tokyo · 23-09-2014 5:40pm

OP, if your eldest child requires constant supervision, it sounds like you are stretched thin as it is, which may be having a knock on effect on your other children in terms of acting out in order to get attention.

Have you considered getting outside help to take on some of the workload of caring for your eldest, for a percentage of the day/week? It would allow you to have more time to yourself, and to have more time to focus on the other children who often get left on the back burner in terms of getting one on one attention? I grew up in such a household myself in terms of having a sibling that required 24 hour care, and it does have more of an effect than you might think.

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 5:56pm

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure she is doing this for attention because as I've said she hurts the other children when she doesn't even know that I can see her. When we're walking along the road it's me with at least three of the children all the time so I'm spending the time just trying to keep them all safe and in order. I'm not sure how to give her one-on-one time, because then each other child will want one-on-one time, and how will I find the extra time for one-on-one time for six kids, plus my new baby is due in three weeks.

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 6:42pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure she is doing this for attention because as I've said she hurts the other children when she doesn't even know that I can see her. When we're walking along the road it's me with at least three of the children all the time so I'm spending the time just trying to keep them all safe and in order. I'm not sure how to give her one-on-one time, because then each other child will want one-on-one time, and how will I find the extra time for one-on-one time for six kids, plus my new baby is due in three weeks.

OP, I don't want to sound harsh but try a bit of family planning. You will have seven kids, one severly disabled, one a tiny baby and I imagine between those two very little time for the other five.

What was the point or plan for so many children? You need to ensure that you give all of them alone time. I would suggest that you look into some form of care provision for your eldest, and perhaps some parenting classes for you. I think that your little girl is lashing out from sheer frustration. I also have no doubt that she picks up on your negative attitude towards her.

You clearly all need help. You cannot devote all of your time to one child and ignore the rest

Gatling · 23-09-2014 6:44pm

It's sounds like classic playing up / attention seeking .
We went through something similar when our youngest came along .
3 years apart the oldest didn't take to kindly to having a new sister for best part of 18 months she was an angel in play school but an absolute demon at home .
To the point I took parenting classes and even that didn't always help
But you have to hang in there for the sake of your daughter .
How is her behaviour in school actually?

One thing your in a very difficult family situation but one of your replys about spending one on one time came across odd if I spend time with one I have to spend time with the others .But yet your having another one when your already have a serious work load to deal with both physically and mentally.

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 6:51pm

My husband and I are Catholic, we always planned to have as many children as occurred naturally. I don't think it's the number of children that is a problem because the others don't behave like that, and we don't have trouble managing with all the others, even our disabled son. The five year old is the only problem. Obviously one-on-one time with them all would be difficult but the others don't mind spending time all together.

Teyla Emmagan · 23-09-2014 6:52pm

Would you think about approaching Social Services OP? They spend their time dealing with families who are overwhelmed for one reason or another and it does sound like you are worn thin to me. They are also probably best placed to get you extra help for your eldest son.

Good luck.

StevieNicksFan · 23-09-2014 6:55pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure she is doing this for attention because as I've said she hurts the other children when she doesn't even know that I can see her. When we're walking along the road it's me with at least three of the children all the time so I'm spending the time just trying to keep them all safe and in order. I'm not sure how to give her one-on-one time, because then each other child will want one-on-one time, and how will I find the extra time for one-on-one time for six kids, plus my new baby is due in three weeks.

In my opinion she is doing this for attention, regardless of whether you see her or not. She hurts the other children because 1. She knows they will cry and you will investigate - she knows you will immediately ask her if she is responsible and therefore the attention is on her. 2. She probably feels isolated and alone in such a large family and has to act out her inner frustrations. At 5 yrs old, she doesn't have the cognitive/mental ability to explain to you what is going on in her mind and it manifests itself in destructive behaviour. It seems like she is trying to be noticed - not just by you - but by the others in your family.

As for making time - when you have children, whether 1 or 10 - it is your duty as a parent to maintain their social, emotional and health needs. EVERY child. That is the responsibility that you take on when you decide to have a family. I know how difficult it is when you have a child with special needs (I have one myself) but the other children need to feel safe, appreciated and loved by their parents too. This means you HAVE to make time. It will be difficult to begin with but if you create some kind of schedule that even gives 15mins of your time to each child every day. Im sorry but as I said earlier it is your responsibility to look after your children no matter what - otherwise do not have them. It's as simple as that. It's not fair on the child if she were to be rejected by her parents. She will have emotional scarring for the rest of her life if this happens - being passed from pillar to post via the social services scheme while her siblings have a nice loving home. Not fair in my opinion, considering the child is only 5 and probably doesn't understand why she is feeling the way she is and acting out this way

dellas1979 · 23-09-2014 6:55pm

OP I understand you are frustrated and at your wits end. But she sounds utterly frustrated too. She is 5 years old.

She doesnt even know/understand fully what she is doing. You just cannot place all that responsibility on a 5 year old.

It is your job as her parent to figure out what is going on, and how to help her. No matter what it takes-Not give up on her.

23-09-2014 7:00pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

I'm not sure how to give her one-on-one time, because then each other child will want one-on-one time, and how will I find the extra time for one-on-one time for six kids,.

Of course they will. You're the parents, that's your job. Having children is not parenting them. Expecting them to raise themselves/each other and talking about dumping one of them for not minding themselves while you ignore them in favour of the eldest 24/7 is really unfair.

She is 5. she does not have the ability to process and express her frustration and probably loneliness.
She is not a carbon copy of the other children who may feel as lonely, may express it in different ways, etc. She is a little person who needs her parents to mind her. And when they don't and call her an evil cow, how else is she to feel?

I strongly suggest you find outside help for the eldest, support for yourselves, and start scheduling one on one time with ALL of your children.

Semele · 23-09-2014 7:03pm

Go to your GP and explain all of this- your family need help/support and your GP is the first port of call. You need to make sure you're getting all the help you are possibly entitled to in terms of parenting a disabled child (such as respite care etc) as well as more specific help for your daughter. You and your husband could also benefit from support in managing what sounds like a horrifically draining situation.

Your daughters behaviour sounds alarming and she most definitely needs more psychological input. You shouldn't have to go private for this though- your GP should be able to refer you to child services. Psychological work with children is most effective when it is systematic, so rather than seeing the child as an individual problem that needs to be fixed they are seen within the context of their family, and everyone involved gets the support they need. Ideally a public health nurse would be involved as well as the child's school or nursery, as everyone needs to be singing from the same hymn sheet.

I don't mean to be critical, so please don't take this as such because I really have a lot of sympathy for you all...but I would be concerned about how much your daughter and your other children have picked up on your feelings about the situation. If you all seem to dislike the girl so much (which is understandable based on her behaviour) I wonder how safe, or loved, or important in the family she feels, or what the other children might ever have said to her that you're not aware of?

Children's minds work so differently to an adults that it is easy to ascribe motivations and intent to them that simply isn't there. A five year old is going to have very little ability to understand her own emotions or to effectively deal with them- the behaviour that you are seeing is likely to stem from overwhelming negative feelings that she doesn't have the capacity to manage. It's easier said than done, but empathy and love are needed more than criticism and rejection, which is why you all need support!

Edit: have just seen other replies and I feel you are failing to understand that children have very individual needs, and it is through adequate parenting that they largely develop into emotionally healthy adults. It's not their job to manage this alone. Everyone has a different temperament that affects how they react to the same situation, so just because your other children are fine with less parental input doesn't mean that they all are, or should be. Your daughters additional emotional needs are no different in importance to your sons additional physical needs. You and your husband could really benefit from parenting classes- and again I don't mean that in a critical way, they're very effective and supportive in helping you understand what your child needs from you.

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 7:06pm

Everyone is bringing the eldest child up constantly but he is not a problem. He doesn't require a huge amount of care, just supervision. He is fine with the other kids except the five year old. He can walk and talk, he's not in a wheelchair or anything like that. The point with him is just that he can't defend himself when somebody is horrible to him which the five year old is. He isn't getting a load of extra time and attention that the others aren't getting. The others all play nicely together and we are all together as a family, spending time with each other at the same time. The only one who tries to spoil this is the five year old.

Gatling · 23-09-2014 7:07pm

Op what's her behaviour like away from the family unit ,
School,
Friends,
Extended family,

Is she permanently badly behaved or only in the home or family unit

rosedream · 23-09-2014 7:23pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I are Catholic, we always planned to have as many children as occurred naturally. I don't think it's the number of children that is a problem because the others don't behave like that, and we don't have trouble managing with all the others, even our disabled son. The five year old is the only problem. Obviously one-on-one time with them all would be difficult but the others don't mind spending time all together.

Op, I'm not going to attack you on how you live your life, especially since you have all these kids now, but you and your husband should have prepared yourself for the pros and cons of having a big family.
I come from a big family myself where my mother had to raise us on our own (another con of a big family if you had to split from your husband for whatever reason and had to raise the kids on your own) and all of us practically killed each other, and not in a typical sibling fight type of way, it went deeper than that.

It could definitely be an attention thing, because there is also one in our family who was a demon in their younger years while the rest of us never acted that badly, and had a tendency even now to blow up angrily over smallest things.

My mother was also the type who just did not want to hear about any fighting and if one of us had to tell her about a sibling bullying us, she would just be like "I don't want to hear about it" which made those feelings of anger and frustration even worse.

OP get her assessed, and try to get counselling as well on how you are feeling towards her, to try and build on bond towards her again.

I understand how frustrated you are, but she is 5 years old, she does not know any better at that age and her behaviour, unless you look at all options to improve it, even looking at yourselves to see if there is something that ye are doing wrong and maybe you don't realise it? I mean it not going to get any better, if you two are going to start hating your own flesh and blood.

The way I look at it is that you are the parents. Adults. You should accept all responsibility on all your kids and give as much attention as you can to each one since that's was what you wanted in the first place, a big family. I mean, there should have been some sort of family planning after the eldest was born, since obviously with his disability, he would need a lot of care and support.
Your daughter didn't ask to be born in this environment, which is apparently toxic for her, so you shouldn't act as if she is at fault here, when she is just a 5 year old kid, practically a baby still.

StevieNicksFan · 23-09-2014 7:26pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I are Catholic, we always planned to have as many children as occurred naturally. I don't think it's the number of children that is a problem because the others don't behave like that, and we don't have trouble managing with all the others, even our disabled son. The five year old is the only problem. Obviously one-on-one time with them all would be difficult but the others don't mind spending time all together.

The amount of children you have is entirely your prerogative, no doubt about that. It is none of our business. But you must understand that even though you may be able to afford them financially, you also need to be able to afford them emotionally. All children are equal - regardless of their needs. However, when you decide to have the government bring up your child entirely by your own choosing, then it does become our business.

Think of it this way - if your child was 18, based on the information you have provided, you would be well within your rights to kick her out. But your daughter is not 18 she is only 5 and your responsibility until her 18 birthday. There is a reason for this - she cannot understand her behaviour and ultimately cannot take responsibility for her actions. It is up to you to nurture her and help her develop as a person. Discipline her appropriately - absolutely - but at a level she understands. Please do not disown her.

It is also possible that she receives a negative vibe from her siblings because of behaviour, which is also something to bear in mind. If your other children see you giving out to her constantly, it may cloud their view of her too. This will only serve as a further reason for her to act out her frustrations

dellas1979 · 23-09-2014 7:32pm

desperatemummy wrote: »

the five year old.

You are completely detached woman.

First of all its not "evil cow" or "the 5 year old" (like she is an old shoe). It is "my 5 year old daughter who I gave birth to and who has spent 5 years on this earth, with me as one of her parents."

You just cannot blame a 5 year old for their behaviour. You just simply cannot. Its beyond ridiculous. Thats like blaming a puppy for eating your shoe.

She has to learn from her parents. If her parents cant cope, the parents need to learn how to help her. Not just want to toss her away.

Stop blaming your 5 year old, letting her take all the responsibility, and take a look at yourselves and situation?

Osvaldo · 23-09-2014 7:36pm

Ban me if necessary; in fact, I'm going to close my account anyway - but you're off your head lady! This little human is only 5. I JUST DON'T GET IT!!! Maybe you should get help yourself! Poor child!

fits · 23-09-2014 7:38pm

Yep, try being a bit more catholic (or Christian) in your behaviour towards your daughter, and a bit less in the bedroom perhaps..

whatdoicare · 23-09-2014 7:39pm

Wow, I am astounded that you could call a 5 year old an evil cow...do you not realise that she's a baby?? How could she possibly be evil! Don't be ridiculous! Anything a five year old does is in reaction to anything you're doing as a parent.

You seriously need to stop and think about it - you had her a year after your six year old and then when she turned three you brought another into the mix aswell as having a 12 year old who needs constant care and attention. When is there time for mammy and 5 year old daughter time? When do you have any time? Never would be the answer I'm guessing. A baby needs her mammy to be attentive to her and to know she matters and is loved, you can't be blaming a baby for your own lack of planning.

I have a one year old and she needs one on one all the time, she needs me to be paying attention to her and playing with her and giving her one on one - there's no way you could have done that with your six year old and your five year old at the same time while you were caring for the others - your baby has essentially gotten lost in the crowd.

You would really want to stop having more children and focus on the ones you do have and give them the time and attention they need and deserve. Like the others said, a few parenting classes would be no harm and get someone in to help you, be it an au pair, a family member or a nanny and a nurse for your 12 year old - someone to mind the others while you give each one their time - and yes, you need to give each one of them some of your time, every single day! That you complained that if you had to give an hour to one you'd have to give an hour to them all says it all really about where you're going wrong.

If you don't do something now, you'll be in for a much harder road as the two year old starts copying the five year old and the others start doing different things to show they too are feeling forgotten.

Anyway bottom line is - your baby is not evil, she's normal. Get some help, you can't be there for all your children without lots of extra help.

StevieNicksFan · 23-09-2014 7:42pm

dellas1979 wrote: »

You are completely detached woman.

First of all its not "evil cow" or "the 5 year old" (like she is an old shoe). It is "my 5 year old daughter who I gave birth to and who has spent 5 years on this earth, with me as one of her parents."

You just cannot blame a 5 year old for their behaviour. You just simply cannot. Its beyond ridiculous. Thats like blaming a puppy for eating your shoe.

She has to learn from her parents. If her parents cant cope, the parents need to learn how to help her. Not just want to toss her away.

Stop blaming your 5 year old, letting her take all the responsibility, and take a look at yourselves and situation?

This is exactly right. I didn't want to be so blunt in my posts but at the end of the day you and your husband are the parents. It's YOU that needs to have a long look at yourselves and think about how YOU can help your child, not just dump her like unwanted rubbish - how do you know your DAUGHTER doesn't feel alone/isolated/unhappy/lonely? Have you asked her? How do you know that SHE doesn't feel she gets enough attention? It's all coming from your perspective when it's her perspective that matters. Stand in her shoes and try to see what way she views the world and her family and the role she plays in it. She is a child lost within her own family - not an evil cow

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 7:43pm

dellas1979 wrote: »

"the 5 year old" (like she is an old shoe). It is "my 5 year old daughter who I gave birth to and who has spent 5 years on this earth, with me as one of her parents."

This is an internet forum, I am hardly going to give out her name, so of course I will describe her by her age so that everybody knows which child I am talking about. I don't shout "Five year old" when I am calling her.

bluewolf wrote: »

She is not "trying to spoil" anything. She is a 5 year old baby who seems very unhappy and you are supposed to be helping her, teaching her, and minding her.

Perhaps you missed the bit where I mentioned working with a child psychologist to see if she needed help. And we teach her every day, she is frequently corrected on her bad behaviour. We've tried to do it lovingly but it has no effect. And there is no reason for her to be unhappy, she's been given a family and a home with very nice loving brothers and sisters, and parents who have been very loving to her. Can you not understand that this absolute non-stop behaviour of hers has worn us down and we have tried everything?

Osvaldo The 2nd · 23-09-2014 7:48pm

Sorry; just had to pop in again. Perhaps an adult psychologist could be beneficial?

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 7:49pm

whatdoicare wrote: »

Wow, I am astounded that you could call a 5 year old an evil cow...do you not realise that she's a baby?? How could she possibly be evil! Don't be ridiculous! Anything a five year old does is in reaction to anything you're doing as a parent.

You seriously need to stop and think about it - you had her a year after your six year old and then when she turned three you brought another into the mix aswell as having a 12 year old who needs constant care and attention. When is there time for mammy and 5 year old daughter time? When do you have any time? Never would be the answer I'm guessing. A baby needs her mammy to be attentive to her and to know she matters and is loved, you can't be blaming a baby for your own lack of planning.

I have a one year old and she needs one on one all the time, she needs me to be paying attention to her and playing with her and giving her one on one - there's no way you could have done that with your six year old and your five year old at the same time while you were caring for the others - your baby has essentially gotten lost in the crowd.

You would really want to stop having more children and focus on the ones you do have and give them the time and attention they need and deserve.

My husband and I having this many kids was par for the course for the majority of people the world over until recently. Do you think that all of these millions of large families could devote one-on-one time to each child on a regular basis? No and most of these people turned out fine. This idea that each child needs a ton of individual attention is a modern concept. The rest of our family happily play together all the time, I think that they are much better off than families with one or two kids where the children have no siblings, or none near to them in age, or the family members spend a load of time alone in their rooms. And you are basically telling me to reward her for bad behaviour.

fits · 23-09-2014 7:49pm

One child psychologist is not trying everything though. Get another opinion.

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 7:51pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I are Catholic, we always planned to have as many children as occurred naturally. I don't think it's the number of children that is a problem because the others don't behave like that, and we don't have trouble managing with all the others, even our disabled son. The five year old is the only problem. Obviously one-on-one time with them all would be difficult but the others don't mind spending time all together.

I think that you need to sit down with a professional and have a long chat about your family dynamics. I also suspect that if you went to a priest and told him that you were having as many kids as possible without consideration for love or personal development, he wouldn't pat you on the back.

For the sake of your children, try some family planning. Give it a break for a few years. What is going to happen otherwise is that one child will be isolated, possibly removed from the family. The other kids will see this and be afraid of it happening to them. Then another one acts up, will you get rid of them too? Not at all a Catholic outlook I am afraid. Children deserve love and care, not to be just a number.

dellas1979 · 23-09-2014 7:52pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

This is an internet forum, I am hardly going to give out her name, so of course I will describe her by her age so that everybody knows which child I am talking about. I don't shout "Five year old" when I am calling her.

Blow me down with a feather. Dont get sassy with me, lady. Im not your 5 year old. Nor am I the person wanting to get rid of her.

You use "the" instead of "my". And call her an "evil cow".

Every bit of advice here shouts to "take responsibility for your actions and get help (even further help) with your parenting skills".

FurBabyMomma · 23-09-2014 7:54pm

A la carte Catholicism at its finest. I'll have as many kids as possible as a good Catholic on the one hand, but then I'll talk about getting rid of one on the other??? Maybe the 'evil cow' is your 'cross to bear', as it were...

I feel sorry for your situation in principal but your attitude is appalling. This 5 year old is not evil, she has simply learned that her behaviour gets her attention, even if that attention is negative. I hope you get help and support from family and social services to manage her behaviour for the sake of a little girl who is suffering and her siblings who are being very patient. FYI try explaining to the other 6 that you got rid of their sister without psychologically scarring them.

Shiraz 4.99 · 23-09-2014 7:55pm

Op, I've seen this behaviour before in young kids. It's an inability to act socially that causes the hitting, it's the only way they can be noticed as their social skills are not developed. The good news is in all cases the behavior dissipated & stopped once they were 7. Self awareness coupled with interaction skills bring an end to the violent behavior.

Best of luck.

strandroad · 23-09-2014 7:55pm

How exactly are you helping her without giving her one on one time?
You should seek help for yourself and your parenting first.
I find it hard to take your posts seriously TBH, how could a normal mature person boast about being a good Catholic in one post and want to get rid of her 5 year old aka "evil cow" in another?

whatdoicare · 23-09-2014 7:56pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

Perhaps you missed the bit where I mentioned working with a child psychologist to see if she needed help. And we teach her every day, she is frequently corrected on her bad behaviour. We've tried to do it lovingly but it has no effect. And there is no reason for her to be unhappy, she's been given a family and a home with very nice loving brothers and sisters, and parents who have been very loving to her. Can you not understand that this absolute non-stop behaviour of hers has worn us down and we have tried everything?

You're attitude to your child comes across as very uncaring towards her - you want to send her away and essentially get rid of her. Also you mentioned you smack her.

Doesn't sound very loving at all. Brothers and sisters she doesn't need - A mammy who doesn't want to give her away is what she needs. Surely you can see that??

sadie06 · 23-09-2014 7:57pm

desperatemummy wrote: »

The others all play nicely together and we are all together as a family, spending time with each other at the same time. The only one who tries to spoil this is the five year old.

I really recommend parenting classes, as if you truly believe that a five year old is trying to ruin everyone's life, or is happy this way, or is an 'evil cow', then you need help in reassessing who is really at fault for this behaviour.

StevieNicksFan · 23-09-2014 7:57pm

Hate to say it but I think this is going to be one of those threads where all the advice given will fall on deaf ears. The same things are being said time and time again by different posters OP. It seems you don't want to take on board the opinions of those whose advice you came here looking for. Bottom line, you need to accept the fact that as a parent you are responsible for your 5 year old. Her behaviour is a reflection of your parenting. The fact that you want to GIVE HER AWAY is testament to this. End of.

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 7:58pm

dellas1979 wrote: »

Dont get sassy with me, lady. QUOTE]
Excuse me? You are some random person on the internet passing judgment on me when this is actually meant to be an advice forum.

dellas1979 wrote: »

And call her an "evil cow".

If you had to see all of your other children constantly bullied and crying by one particular child, be physically assaulted by this child and deal with it all day every day then you might understand that sometimes you need to rant about that child and let out some frustrations.

Calmsurrender · 23-09-2014 8:00pm

desperatemummy wrote: »

Everyone is bringing the eldest child up constantly but he is not a problem. He doesn't require a huge amount of care, just supervision. He is fine with the other kids except the five year old. He can walk and talk, he's not in a wheelchair or anything like that. The point with him is just that he can't defend himself when somebody is horrible to him which the five year old is. He isn't getting a load of extra time and attention that the others aren't getting. The others all play nicely together and we are all together as a family, spending time with each other at the same time. The only one who tries to spoil this is the five year old.

You've been given lloads of good advice and suggestions here but im not sure what you want to hear apart from
"Yes your child is clearly evil. Its not your fault or responsibility heres how to put her in care with no negative reprocussions for the rest of your perfect family"

Look at the words you use to describe your daughter "spiteful", "evil cow", "starting to hate her"
What words do you think she would honestly use to describe you?
And her siblings what they call her? Mean? A bully? Horrible?

This little 5 year old girl is hated by her whole family, its a vicious circle - why should she nice and good for you? You're always yelling anyway and so on.
You all need help and support to deal with that. It doesn't matter that your other kids dont lash out this way - this one does. Maybe she needs that little bit more attention. Saying you can't give it to her because the other ones will want it to is a cop out. Explain it to them that you're trying to help their sister to be nice again. Theyre good kids who play together they will understand.

Sorry if that seems harsh but I dont know you im not a fly on the wall there I can only go on what youve written

MsMayhem · 23-09-2014 8:00pm

Seriously, the title of this thread says it all. It wasn't please advise me on how to deal with/help/understand my daughter. It sounds to me like your daughter is having a normal reaction to her circumstances.

It's you & your husband that are failing your daughter. You need help, and if you don't get it you will completely fail as parents to her.

Also I suggest you practice abstinence until you learn to cope with your current children.

whatdoicare · 23-09-2014 8:04pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I having this many kids was par for the course for the majority of people the world over until recently. Do you think that all of these millions of large families could devote one-on-one time to each child on a regular basis? No and most of these people turned out fine. This idea that each child needs a ton of individual attention is a modern concept. The rest of our family happily play together all the time, I think that they are much better off than families with one or two kids where the children have no siblings, or none near to them in age, or the family members spend a load of time alone in their rooms. And you are basically telling me to reward her for bad behaviour.

Are you for real?? You are talking about a time when high child mortality rates were a fact of life and YES every child needs a ton of attention, this is not a "modern" concept.

How can you be so irresponsible??

jackboy · 23-09-2014 8:04pm

And there is no reason for her to be unhappy, she's been given a family and a home with very nice loving brothers and sisters, and parents who have been very loving to her.

Well she is unhappy so there is definitely a reason for this. Remember, she is five, she owes you absolutely nothing. You owe her everything as her parent.

B0jangles · 23-09-2014 8:04pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I having this many kids was par for the course for the majority of people the world over until recently.

They pretty much had no choice in the matter; up until recently it was also "par for the course" for the elder girls in the family to start taking on childcare responsibilities for their younger siblings at the age of ten or so. That wasn't and isn't right or fair - children have the right to be parented, not forced to parent themselves or each other because their own parents chose to have more children than they could properly parent themselves.

You and your husband have chosen not to take control of the size of your family; like it or not, that has consequences.

Your child is 5 years old, she's not a monster, she's a confused baby who needs to be helped and supported and not feel that her parents want to get rid of her.

Zen65 · 23-09-2014 8:05pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I are Catholic, we always planned to have as many children as occurred naturally. I don't think it's the number of children that is a problem because the others don't behave like that, and we don't have trouble managing with all the others, even our disabled son. The five year old is the only problem.

Others have pointed it out, but I do think it merits repeating here, as often as possible without taking away from the focus of helping you. The five year old daughter is not the problem. The problem is that you cannot find enough time to give her attention, and I suspect that you may even be showing signs of resentment towards her (you do here, a bit).

Five year old girls do not have the vocabulary and communication skills to explain their needs and insecurities. She may need (or just want) a little more time than you feel you can give her, so her behaviour forces you to doing just that.

Children are people. People are not all the same, so saying that the others are not a problem offers no real insight. Your daughter has her own personality with her own little foibles.

You do need counselling. You cannot expect her to solve the problem, so you need professional help to train yourself to be a better parent because this is a problem of your making - you and your husband. I grimace when I read your sentence about being Catholic and therefore wanting all the children that occur naturally. The Catholic doctrine requires that you love your children, not just have them. It seems to me that you have fallen into the Irish Catholic obsession of seeing birth control as being the greater evil. You may think that you do love them already, but what you've told us here is that your love is conditional. That's a symptom of a parent that has not had enough time to know their kids well enough.

So my advice is this: Make time. By whatever means you can, make time to get to know your children better, to understand what they think and feel. Also take time to correct improper behaviour by any of them, in a way that makes clear that there are ground rules that everyone must obey. Making time may well mean getting help to mind your handicapped son, even though you think he's not the problem. He's not the problem, but he is compounding the problem of not having enough time to spread around.

Finally, may I suggest you take measures to limit the size of your family from here on in? It can be great to have a large family, but it's only great if you can cope with it, and it sounds like you are struggling. Some form of birth control really is essential if you want children who remember their childhood as a wonderful experience, and not just be hanging on waiting for the first opportunity to run from your home to somewhere less manic.

Be at peace,

Rubberchikken · 23-09-2014 8:05pm

I hope you're really at the end of your rope to describe your child as you have.
You need to go back for another opinion, talk to your gp.

You have your family divided into disabled son, others who all play together so well and a 5 year old. And now you're adding to it.
I can see why other posters have gotten irritated with your post. No one obviously forced you to have that many kids so it's your responsibility to do right by each one.

You mention your disabled son a lot and then say he can walk and talk so i think he's being used as an excuse. He's either disabled or not. If he needs a lot of attention, apply for a carer, to free up time.
Be proactive and do something for a 5 year old who needs help.

jackboy · 23-09-2014 8:05pm

And there is no reason for her to be unhappy, she's been given a family and a home with very nice loving brothers and sisters, and parents who have been very loving to her.

Well she is unhappy so there is definitely a reason for this. Remember, she is five, she owes you absolutely nothing. You owe her everything as her parent.

leggo · 23-09-2014 8:06pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I having this many kids was par for the course for the majority of people the world over until recently. Do you think that all of these millions of large families could devote one-on-one time to each child on a regular basis? No and most of these people turned out fine. This idea that each child needs a ton of individual attention is a modern concept. The rest of our family happily play together all the time, I think that they are much better off than families with one or two kids where the children have no siblings, or none near to them in age, or the family members spend a load of time alone in their rooms. And you are basically telling me to reward her for bad behaviour.

Actually, I know quite a few (adult) people who came from large Catholic families and you'll often find quite a few underlying issues directly stemming from it under the surface. The lack of attention thing, in particular, can last for life and lead to fractured adult relationships with both family and friends as they try to then become overly-dominant in the home because it's, pardon the pejorative term, 'their time to shine'. Another I've seen, personally, is a lack of self-esteem from being raised not feeling important within the world, which can affect developing future friendships and relationships in later life. Never mind the trauma from having to deal with parents who, typically, had an absentee father who had to work all hours to pay for the rearing of the children, and a mother stressed out of her head from having to essentially raise them by herself. An Irish 'doing fine' isn't always actually 'doing fine'. We're not far removed from having an almost barbaric culture that people are already stunned by in hindsight, a life that many boardsies may even remember clearly. These decisions have consequences. How could they not?

But look, what's done is done, though perhaps it's worth keeping in mind for the future. I certainly don't agree with your policies, but they are yours to make for your own life.

I think the problem in this thread, and why you'd be better served at this stage seeking further professional help with the matter, is that you've got this unpractical solution (getting rid of your child) drilled into your own head and are only looking for support for that particular answer. The words 'tried everything we can' and 'don't you understand' seem to be coming up a lot. Maybe you're right and this is a situation so unique that boardsies can't realistically relate to it, or maybe you need to hear the same thing said by someone with professional experience in dealing with these specific issues and a successful gameplan for managing them. Either way I don't think you're going to get the help you need here. I hope that you do, though, for both your child's sake and your own.

LegacyUser · 23-09-2014 8:06pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

My husband and I are Catholic, we always planned to have as many children as occurred naturally. I don't think it's the number of children that is a problem because the others don't behave like that, and we don't have trouble managing with all the others, even our disabled son. The five year old is the only problem. Obviously one-on-one time with them all would be difficult but the others don't mind spending time all together.

The others didn't behave like that because (a) kids are people and people are different, each child is not going to be a carbon copy of the last and (b) there wasn't as many of them to start with so younger kids didn't need to act out, you've now reached a point were you can no longer cope with the amount of kids you have and your seeing the result.

As for your comment regarding large families being the norm not to long ago your right but your not right about them turning out fine. My parents both come for large double digit families and most of the other families in our town would be the same, anything under 11 kids was considered a small family and every single family has someone with emotional issues or alcohol issues and nine times out of ten it's the younger ones and none of them have had large familes, 5 is now considered a large family in our area so just because it was how things use to be doesn't mean it was the right way to do things.

What do you honestly expect to happen OP? Do you expect social services to come and take her into care? If that happened it's likely they'd take all the kids as your not able to cope. Speak to your GP about some parenting classes and outside help from a nurse or social worker and maybe reconsider your family planning choices.

fits · 23-09-2014 8:10pm

That David Coleman guy has always impressed me, you could try him?

Whispered · 23-09-2014 8:12pm

I think the OP is just very overwhelmed. I'm sure she doesn't hate her child.
OP you say you've tried discipling her in different ways, what have you done to reinforce the good behaviour she does? Does she ever get praise for behaving herself?

dellas1979 · 23-09-2014 8:17pm

Desperatemummy wrote: »

Excuse me? You are some random person on the internet passing judgment on me when this is actually meant to be an advice forum.

I sure am. Am a random person. And I am passing judgement on you, and your appauling behaviour towards your child.

dellas1979 wrote: »

you might understand that sometimes you need to rant about that child and let out some frustrations.

The difference between you and I is that I wouldnt blame a 5 year old. No matter the dire circumstances. I would be curious to know and understand why she is behaving like this. And was it something I/parents was doing and was there something I could change.

Its about as logical as saying "I leave my 5 year old to fend for herself. Shes 5. She should be grateful I give her a bit of food. But, heres the issue, I gave her a tin of beans and she couldnt open it. Shes 5. How cant she know at 5 years old what she needs to do to eat?"

lapua20grain · 23-09-2014 8:18pm

I have not read all the post's so this may have been said before. Have you got her assessed for ADHD,aspergers or autism as this kind of behavior can sometimes be how these are captured and if she is there treatments that can help

I want to get rid of my daughter. <Read MOD warning POST #1>

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