I'm a new driver [car overheating]

tonyheaney

Hi guys need some help regarding my car. For the first time since i bought this car the coolant gauge has peaked. Since today its hitting the red...nearly. Its never done that before. Can some one tell me why its doing this. The first photo is normal time as its has been like this since i bought it. The second photo is the new think its doing. Please help. I drive a Fiat Panda 2004. Its used for school runs and drive about 5 miles or so. Money is tight.

Update: I noticed the gage goes up when im parked.


this is normal or has been since i bought the car:

Its never done this:

Quazzie

You fan isn't working for some reason. When you are moving there is air blowing over the engine keeping it cool. When you park the fan should do this function but for some reason it isn't. This might be due to fan malfunction or because the rate of temperature rise exceeds the capabilities of the fan.

Either way, wait till it cools down, and check your coolant level. Then bring it to a mechanic and get him to check it. Try if at all possible from letting the gauge go into the red zone at all as this could be fatal for the engine.

visual

I would be guessing your fan isn't turning on

dont let it get up to the red as it will cause damage

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

It's a fiat

it could be anything

But i say head gasket

Chimaera

This is your car telling you something is wrong: during your driver education you should have covered this stuff as it's now part of the curriculum. At the very least you need to know what the warning lights and gauges tell you.

Temperature gauge high means the car is overheating: if you're not familiar with the mechanical workings of your vehicle, it might be a good idea to find a mechanic who can help you. Ask friends or family for recommendations in your area.

tonyheaney

Quazzie wrote: »

You fan isn't working for some reason. When you are moving there is air blowing over the engine keeping it cool. When you park the fan should do this function but for some reason it isn't. This might be due to fan malfunction or because the rate of temperature rise exceeds the capabilities of the fan.

Either way, wait till it cools down, and check your coolant level. Then bring it to a mechanic and get him to check it. Try if at all possible from letting the gauge go into the red zone at all as this could be fatal for the engine.

when the gauge is near the red mark and i look in the engine the fan is spinning. when i turn off the engine it takes a few minutes to stop spinning.

tonyheaney

Chimaera wrote: »

This is your car telling you something is wrong: during your driver education you should have covered this stuff as it's now part of the curriculum. At the very least you need to know what the warning lights and gauges tell you.

Temperature gauge high means the car is overheating: if you're not familiar with the mechanical workings of your vehicle, it might be a good idea to find a mechanic who can help you. Ask friends or family for recommendations in your area.

No warning lights have come on just the gauge going where its not needed

pablo128

That engine was prone to head gasket failure when it was fitted to other models such as the Punto. And most likely is the problem with yours.

martinr5232

tonyheaney wrote: »

when the gauge is near the red mark and i look in the engine the fan is spinning. when i turn off the engine it takes a few minutes to stop spinning.

Is the coolant level ok its possible that the cooling system is air locked.

Quazzie

tonyheaney wrote: »

when the gauge is near the red mark and i look in the engine the fan is spinning. when i turn off the engine it takes a few minutes to stop spinning.

Then that means the car is overheating beyond the normal limits. The fan should be able to keep it cool when not mobile. Overheating could be caused by many things, but the most likely, with it being a FIAT, is the thermostat/headgasket. The only way to find out for certain which is to bring it to a competent mechanic. If you let us know where you are from (general area will be enough) someone here might be able to let you know of one in your area.

JohnBoy26

Bring it to a mechanic and get it diagnosed asap. The way it is it you will end up damaging it more.

cml387

Not good news I'm afraid. It could be a lot of things and having had a Fiat myself it may be:

1) A head gasket
2)Heater matrix fault
3)Water pump problem

Pressure test of cooling system is required because it's likely that cooling system has leak somewhere.
Don't wait for "warning lights" at that stage the engine head could be warped and major work is involved.

Bongalongherb

Ye better hope it's the fan, because if it's the head-gasket it's going to be expensive to have her shimmed. I had a similar problem with a rover 400i but I just dumped it as the car wasn't worth the cost. Never ever purchase a rover 400 ever. It's like an experiment that a few science kids put together out of lego.

Stheno

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

It's a fiat

it could be anything

But i say head gasket

I'd say the same. OP bring it to a mechanic to check for you before it gets worse.

Bongalongherb

Stheno wrote: »

I'd say the same. OP bring it to a mechanic to check for you before it gets worse.

The problem is... if it is the head-gasket, and this person gets it fixed, it will go again later maybe a year of good driving, or might get two years out of it.

If the car is worth a few quid I'd get it repaired/shimmed and sell it. Just my opinion.

Stheno

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The problem is... if it is the head-gasket, and this person gets it fixed, it will go again later maybe a year of good driving, or might get two years out of it.

If the car is worth a few quid I'd get it repaired/shimmed and sell it. Just my opinion.

I'd a head gasket go on a punto, got it fixed, and it ran fine for around another four years.

Quazzie

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The problem is... if it is the head-gasket, and this person gets it fixed, it will go again later maybe a year of good driving, or might get two years out of it.

On what evidence is this based on?

JohnBoy26

if its done properly it will last a lot longer than a year or two. It's not a k series rover

Bongalongherb

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

if its done properly it will last a lot longer than a year or two. It's not a k series rover

Exactly. If it is done properly. If not, it could go any-time again. Will the OP be able to distinguish between whether it was done properly ?.

Leaving rovers out of it, I don't have much faith in head-gasket repairs done properly and once the gasket goes i'd just sell the thing and purchase a better manufactured car imo.

It seems like the odd poster here has genuine perfection in mind when it comes to a professional gasket repair job, but I've seen it in the past, the same repair lasts a year or two at most and gasket failure again, is it worth it. sell the thing and start anew.

JohnBoy26

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Exactly. If it is done properly. If not, it could go any-time again. Will the OP be able to distinguish between whether it was done properly ?.

Leaving rovers out of it, I don't have much faith in head-gasket repairs done properly and once the gasket goes i'd just sell the thing and purchase a better manufactured car imo.

Any reputable garage will do it properly.

Quazzie

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Exactly. If it is done properly. If not, it could go any-time again. Will the OP be able to distinguish between whether it was done properly ?.

Leaving rovers out of it, I don't have much faith in head-gasket repairs done properly and once the gasket goes i'd just sell the thing and purchase a better manufactured car imo.

It seems like the odd poster here has genuine perfection in mind when it comes to a professional gasket repair job, but I've seen it in the past, the same repair lasts a year or two at most and gasket failure again, is it worth it. sell the thing and start anew.

How can a head gasket replacement not be done properly?

dgt

Quazzie wrote: »

How can a head gasket replacement not be done properly?

Not skimming the head, not checking the rings for damage. I'm not going to name the defunct garage.

OP it may be a water pump. Hg fail usually is indicated by gurgling behind the dash on start up and pressure on opening the cap when cold. Sometimes fail between the cylinders, usually a.... Badly replaced hg

When was the coolant last changed? They're meant to be changed every 2 years

Quazzie

dgt wrote: »

Not skimming the head, not checking the rings for damage. I'm not going to name the defunct garage.

That's why I, and all the other posters recommended a competent mechanic. I think finding a competent mechanic will ensure that a head gasket replacement can last as long, if not longer than the original.

dgt

Quazzie wrote: »

That's why I, and all the other posters recommended a competent mechanic. I think finding a competent mechanic will ensure that a head gasket replacement can last as long, if not longer than the original.

No doubts that's the only way. I have had a chap buy an entire engine off me after his hg went. Did the head and chewed 2 cam shafts. Whoever did the work on the head (again, no names) didn't clean the swarf from the galleries and the rest you can figure out.

OP needs someone who has their head fully on the job and knows how to look after the car. How many Fiats are looked after as they should be for example? F*ck all

tonyheaney

Bongalongherb wrote: »

The problem is... if it is the head-gasket, and this person gets it fixed, it will go again later maybe a year of good driving, or might get two years out of it.

If the car is worth a few quid I'd get it repaired/shimmed and sell it. Just my opinion.

what does it mean repaired/shimmed ? sorry for sounding like a newbie

I drove the Fiat to my friend who fixes cars and he said 80% chance its the Thermostat and will cost €8 - €10 and he will fix it for €20. He also bled a small button which had a lot of air and that seems to take me out of the read. When i had the in car air blowing (i know newbie :rolleyes:) it went cold then warm after he bled it and back to cold again so he said defiantly Thermostat.

what do you lads think???

dgt

tonyheaney wrote: »

what does it mean repaired/shimmed ? sorry for sounding like a newbie

I drove the Fiat to my friend who fixes cars and he said 80% chance its the Thermostat and will cost €8 - €10 and he will fix it for €20. He also bled a small button which had a lot of air and that seems to take me out of the read. When i had the in car air blowing (i know newbie :rolleyes:) it went cold then warm after he bled it and back to cold again so he said defiantly Thermostat.

what do you lads think???

When you start it from cold, does it gurgle behind the dash ie water rushing noise

Bongalongherb

What's the cost these days for a head-gasket fix from a competent mechanic ?. Just curious.

Stheno

Bongalongherb wrote: »

What's the cost these days for a head-gasket fix from a competent mechanic ?. Just curious.

It's a long time since i had mine done but it was less than €400

Bongalongherb

Stheno wrote: »

It's a long time since i had mine done but it was less than €400

I see. I got the €450/470 mark. Was just curious on price difference, but it's not much in the difference there. A friend a year back was quoted 600 though but he went somewhere else.

Stheno

tonyheaney wrote: »

what does it mean repaired/shimmed ? sorry for sounding like a newbie

I drove the Fiat to my friend who fixes cars and he said 80% chance its the Thermostat and will cost €8 - €10 and he will fix it for €20. He also bled a small button which had a lot of air and that seems to take me out of the read. When i had the in car air blowing (i know newbie :rolleyes:) it went cold then warm after he bled it and back to cold again so he said defiantly Thermostat.

what do you lads think???

Could be the thermostat, if it is then you're lucky

cerastes

Chimaera wrote: »

This is your car telling you something is wrong: during your driver education you should have covered this stuff as it's now part of the curriculum. At the very least you need to know what the warning lights and gauges tell you.

Temperature gauge high means the car is overheating: if you're not familiar with the mechanical workings of your vehicle, it might be a good idea to find a mechanic who can help you. Ask friends or family for recommendations in your area.

Its a learning experience, driving. Id say many people that dont know about cars or mechanical stuff, just learn by rote what they need to, practice is a better learning tool I think.

tonyheaney wrote: »

when the gauge is near the red mark and i look in the engine the fan is spinning. when i turn off the engine it takes a few minutes to stop spinning.

tonyheaney wrote: »

what does it mean repaired/shimmed ? sorry for sounding like a newbie

I drove the Fiat to my friend who fixes cars and he said 80% chance its the Thermostat and will cost €8 - €10 and he will fix it for €20. He also bled a small button which had a lot of air and that seems to take me out of the read. When i had the in car air blowing (i know newbie :rolleyes:) it went cold then warm after he bled it and back to cold again so he said defiantly Thermostat.

what do you lads think???

For that price, get that done, not much problem, not sure why you asked if your friend fixes cars, but there is no point going for the most expensive repair option, go for the cheapest and basic stuff, if someone is checking it they should be able to identify any serious problem if you give them the symptoms.

ironclaw

cerastes wrote: »

Its a learning experience, driving. Id say many people that dont know about cars or mechanical stuff, just learn by rote what they need to, practice is a better learning tool I think.

I think its a massive failure on behalf of driving education that people are on the road without the faintest idea how a car works and basic maintenance or roadside repair. Its astounding when you think about it that someone is prepared to get into a magic metal box and fling themselves along at 120km/h without a breeze how it works.

cml387

ironclaw wrote: »

I think its a massive failure on behalf of driving education that people are on the road without the faintest idea how a car works and basic maintenance or roadside repair. Its astounding when you think about it that someone is prepared to get into a magic metal box and fling themselves along at 120km/h without a breeze how it works.

Not really. A car may be a way of life to some people, they read all the magazines, know their torque from their understeer and hear a knuclejoint failure from 300 metres.

However most people use their car as a way of getting from where they are to where they want to be. Sometimes things go wrong and if they are brave or foolhardy they ask a question here.

Then they can either get some help, or be told that they shouldn't even be driving if they can't disassemble and reassemble the entire engine via the exhaust pipe.

tonyheaney

dgt wrote: »

Not skimming the head, not checking the rings for damage. I'm not going to name the defunct garage.

OP it may be a water pump. Hg fail usually is indicated by gurgling behind the dash on start up and pressure on opening the cap when cold. Sometimes fail between the cylinders, usually a.... Badly replaced hg

When was the coolant last changed? They're meant to be changed every 2 years

YES !!!! YERSSS!!! Ive been hearing a gurgling behind the dash on start for a month now perhaps more. What is hg?? what do i need to do????

Bought the car in April(ish) and the only liquid i put in the car was coke, petrol and screen wash LOL

tonyheaney

dgt wrote: »

When you start it from cold, does it gurgle behind the dash ie water rushing noise

Yes from the passenger side. I have heard it for a month or so and i questioned it here on boards and friends and no one knew what i was on about including my driving instructor.

Stheno

tonyheaney wrote: »

YES !!!! YERSSS!!! Ive been hearing a gurgling behind the dash on start for a month now perhaps more. What is hg?? what do i need to do????

Hg is the headgasket, basically it's a small frame that seals the cylinders in the engine to make sure they do not get any liquid (oil/coolant) into them. If they do it can lead to engine failure. Think of it like a tupperware bowl, you've the lid that snaps in place and keeps everything in, if it becomes loose stuff can get in and contaminate your food. (that's a very basic explanation, I'm not massively car savvy and someone will doubtless be along with a better explanation).

In this case it's serious as if liquid leaks into the cylinders, it can damage the engine.
Just googling will give you some info.

You need to get the car to a mechanic to check if it is the headgasket, if you are getting that noise which indicates the head gasket is going/gone, and your friend hasn't copped that, I'd be looking for another mechanic.

ironclaw

cml387 wrote: »

Not really. A car may be a way of life to some people, they read all the magazines, know their torque from their understeer and hear a knuclejoint failure from 300 metres.

However most people use their car as a way of getting from where they are to where they want to be. Sometimes things go wrong and if they are brave or foolhardy they ask a question here.

Then they can either get some help, or be told that they shouldn't even be driving if they can't disassemble and reassemble the entire engine via the exhaust pipe.

I said basic maintenance and basic roadside repair. I don't expect someone to understand the mechanics of the piston mechanism. But I think as 'highly educated' nation we should equip people with the basic ability to check oil, have a faint idea what common engine lights / failures are, understand basics of tyre pressures and a general overview of how everything works. There are people out there without a notion of how to change a bulb or check oil, and we're perfectly happy to let them whiz past us at speed. Thats terrifying to be honest.

But anyway, never going to happen as we can barely use a motorway in this country

Stheno

ironclaw wrote: »

I said basic maintenance and basic roadside repair. I don't expect someone to understand the mechanics of the piston mechanism. But I think as 'highly educated' nation we should equip people with the basic ability to check oil, have a faint idea what common engine lights / failures are, understand basics of tyre pressures and a general overview of how everything works. There are people out there without a notion of how to change a bulb or check oil, and we're perfectly happy to let them whiz past us at speed. Thats terrifying to be honest.

But anyway, never going to happen as we can barely use a motorway in this country

You've just described my OH driving over 30 years with no major issues.

As my last two cars were fussy cars he got into checking oil, and tyre pressure regularly, and now does it for himself.

And some cars are a horror to change bulbs in, so much so that Halfords refuse to do them.

I once went to Halfords to get a bulb changed, they couldn't do it so I did it myself.

JohnBoy26

ironclaw wrote: »

I said basic maintenance and basic roadside repair. I don't expect someone to understand the mechanics of the piston mechanism. But I think as 'highly educated' nation we should equip people with the basic ability to check oil, have a faint idea what common engine lights / failures are, understand basics of tyre pressures and a general overview of how everything works. There are people out there without a notion of how to change a bulb or check oil, and we're perfectly happy to let them whiz past us at speed. Thats terrifying to be honest.

But anyway, never going to happen as we can barely use a motorway in this country

None of what you mention above is confined to this country, it's the same in many places.

pablo128

I'm not going to quote everyone, so here goes.

Rovers are about twice as difficult and twice as expensive to replace a head gasket. No comparison to a Fiat.

I have replaced probably 100 Fiat head gaskets at this stage. None came back after a year with repeated failure.

If there is air in the cooling system, I'll bet a weeks wages it's not a thermostat problem.

I know fcuk all about washing machines. If a washing machine specialist berated me for not knowing anything about how they work, I'd tell him where to go fairly rapid. Just like I wouldn't expect every motorist to accurately diagnose every problem with their car.

Tony, it appears your head gasket is gone alright. Repeated overheating will eventually render the engine, or at least the cylinder head un repairable. I would get it repaired sooner rather than later. As they're an easy enough engine to replace the gasket on, it shouldn't cost a fortune.

Nekarsulm

tonyheaney wrote: »

what does it mean repaired/shimmed ? sorry for sounding like a newbie

I drove the Fiat to my friend who fixes cars and he said 80% chance its the Thermostat and will cost €8 - €10 and he will fix it for €20. He also bled a small button which had a lot of air and that seems to take me out of the read. When i had the in car air blowing (i know newbie :rolleyes:) it went cold then warm after he bled it and back to cold again so he said defiantly Thermostat.

what do you lads think???

I think the poster means "skimmed"

If an engines head gasket fails, and the car overheats, its good practice to bring the cylinder head to an engineering machine shop to get the head skimmed. This is basically machining a few thousands of an inch from the face of the cylinder head where it bolts down to the rest of the engine. This ensures that the cylinder head is perfectly flat and will seal against the new cylinder head gasket properly. Overheating can cause a cylinder head to warp fractionally.

dgt

Amen to you pablo128 :cool:

I will add to what you said: let it overheat beyond recognition and face broken oil scraper rings. I've seen it happen a good few times on the smaller Fiat engines