Anyone here work full time and manage an online business at the same time?

WrigleysExtra

As above, if so how has it worked out? How do you deal with calls or email queries that might come during the day? How do you manage to package and ship products out?

Not sure if it is really possible to work full time and have a venture on the side so would be interested in hearing from other boards members.

barneystinson

WrigleysExtra wrote: »

As above, if so how has it worked out? How do you deal with calls or email queries that might come during the day? How do you manage to package and ship products out?

Not sure if it is really possible to work full time and have a venture on the side so would be interested in hearing from other boards members.

No, it can't be done.

_Brian

Sent you a PM OP.

The Corinthian

Well it can be done, but it really comes down to how much can be automated and your (target) volume (and thus resources needed for marketing or customer service).

I have a bulk SMS business on the side. I buy SMS (more correctly rent access to SMS gateways) from telcos in countries where they're cheap, in bulk, then sell it off in smaller chunks, manage and run it through a gateway I wrote, adding a margin along the way. Customer acquisition has been organic - word of mouth. I don't bother advertising. They do their own integration, pay up front and require very little attention.

At this stage all I need do is keep an eye on things; occasionally checking the market for better sources, keeping an eye on delivery rates and so on and the odd outage which at this stage hasn't happened in perhaps two years. It really all runs itself - one hour a week of my time - if even that.

However, the only reason it can is because it's low volume - it makes enough to pay for a nice holiday, a new laptop or similar, but that's all. To do that I would need to expand volume; which would mean a significant investment in time and money to acquire more customers, increase SMS volume, etc. This would require a time commitment that would be impossible with a full-time job (at least a job where you cannot easily be replaced with a robot).

So my experience is the more you can automate (or outsource), the more you can do while holding down a day job, but eventually you reach a critical mass where it can no longer be done 'part time'.

Tiddlypeeps

It depends on a lot of variables. The key is how you need to interface with your customers. If you absolutely need to be contactable within the hours of your day job then it may not be feasible. For most e-commerce sites tho customers expect about a 24 hour turn around on response to emails and most aren't contactable by phone. You can also state clearly that it may take a couple of days for the item to be dispatched. I regularly order from sites that can take up to 5 days just to get the product out the door. It depends very much on the specific business tho and the norm among your competitors and the industry.

If the problem is that you simply have too many orders to meet in the evenings then you would likely have to choose between it and your day job, or hire someone to help out.

WrigleysExtra

Thanks for the replies. I definitely agree that I would need a high level of automation in order to make it work. As _Brian mentioned it would probably mean late nights and early mornings to get orders out which probably wouldn't be an issue but I suppose it would need to be worth my while. Looks like I will have to give this more thought.

JMR

It can certainly be done.
Others have pointed out that outsourcing is vital and that is very true.
I have products stored by Pick & Pack providers in IRL and the UK. Order arrives via our website and an email gets forwarded to the Pick & Pack provider and is shipped out the same day.

I originally stored the products at home and packaged and delivered to Dublin Mail Centre every evening! When I think about that now it sounds crazy!

It is hard to grow the business while working full time, that's 100% correct but if you start off small and grow organically it can be an extra revenue stream for you.

I have also found the whole process of starting and running an eCommerce business fascinating and can bore the pants off anyone who'll listen to me about Google rankings and increasing conversion rates!

Best of luck, let me know if you need any specific questions answered

pedronomix

Selling widgets or any physical product is a whole different ball game to selling virtual/electronically delivered items as you have to deal with pick/pack/dispatch and have a system for returns etc.
No phone, can't contact, long customer service/sales query delays and I am out of there pronto!!
JMR model is the way to go for anything but the most modest volumes. You cant beat the voice of coalface experience!

The Corinthian

JMR wrote: »

It is hard to grow the business while working full time, that's 100% correct but if you start off small and grow organically it can be an extra revenue stream for you.

I think that all things considered, growing your business is the one thing that may be impossible, or close, to do while holding down a full-time job. One can potentially automate or outsource everything else, but I suspect that this is the one thing that you can do neither with.

pedronomix

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think that all things considered, growing your business is the one thing that may be impossible, or close, to do while holding down a full-time job. One can potentially automate or outsource everything else, but I suspect that this is the one thing that you can do neither with.

Unless of course the sideline business grows to the point where it is the full time job that is the impediment!! OP becomes a full-time entrepreneur!

LordNorbury

Another thing you need to factor in (this will be a determined by whatever products you are selling online and especially if they are tangible products), is the quality of customer you are connecting with online.

Some sectors suffer from a seriously poor quality of customer online, the type that is shopping around all day online and not buying anything. If you can automate the process and people can either decide to buy online or not without the customer having to engage with you via emails and/or phone calls, etc, then you will not really have a problem here, but if you have to take a query and get back to them, then be ready for a lot of hassle, especially if the cost of the goods you are selling isn't cheap.

JMR

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think that all things considered, growing your business is the one thing that may be impossible, or close, to do while holding down a full-time job. One can potentially automate or outsource everything else, but I suspect that this is the one thing that you can do neither with.

This is true. There are so many things I would do with the 'secondary' business if I wasn't tied down by the 'primary' business, which in fairness pays the bills!

By far the best move I have made so far is outsourcing the storage, packaging and delivery of goods. So many people I have spoken to are aware of companies that offer this service but assume they are too small to be able to afford it.
The reality is that the pick and pack operators are mostly tied to or often divisions of delivery companies so can offer much better delivery rates to you than you might be able to get yourself.
The saving you make on delivery cost can pay for storage and take a huge chunk of the day to day hassle off your hands and theoretically at least, free you up to grow the business.

Swampy

Can you recommend a few pick and pack companies?

JMR

Swampy wrote: »

Can you recommend a few pick and pack companies?

For deliveries within Ireland and rest of Europe (excluding the UK) we use http://www.2flow.ie/ which is based in Dublin and part of Cyclone couriers

For UK deliveries we use http://www.ukpickandpack.com/ based in West Sussex

We use 2 separate companies as next day delivery is important for our customers, so to achieve that in the UK, the goods must be stored there.

WillRoyal

I work 9 to 5.30 and i also run a Local Web Directory business in my spare time. With 2 kids i dont get to sit down properly until about 9pm each evening - When you think about the time it takes in Marketing your Business, Building a good Social Media presence along with the all other tasks it can be daunting. If your passionate about what you do you will find the time

Atomico

Very hard to work full-time and have another business on the side. Unless it is a passive income business, and then you can make money even when you're sleeping, never mind when at the day job

elastico

One problem is that if you already have a day job your profits could well be taxed at 52%. Not ideal.

JMR

elastico wrote: »

One problem is that if you already have a day job your profits could well be taxed at 52%. Not ideal.

Attracting more revenue into your company should never be viewed as a problem.

Help!!!!

JMR wrote: »

It can certainly be done.
Others have pointed out that outsourcing is vital and that is very true.
I have products stored by Pick & Pack providers in IRL and the UK. Order arrives via our website and an email gets forwarded to the Pick & Pack provider and is shipped out the same day.

I originally stored the products at home and packaged and delivered to Dublin Mail Centre every evening! When I think about that now it sounds crazy!

It is hard to grow the business while working full time, that's 100% correct but if you start off small and grow organically it can be an extra revenue stream for you.

I have also found the whole process of starting and running an eCommerce business fascinating and can bore the pants off anyone who'll listen to me about Google rankings and increasing conversion rates!

Best of luck, let me know if you need any specific questions answered

How much capital did you start off with?

JMR

Help!!!! wrote: »

How much capital did you start off with?

Less than €4K, which covered website build and initial stock purchase.

Gloomtastic!

JMR wrote: »

Attracting more revenue into your company should never be viewed as a problem.

The exception to this rule is probably the ridiculously low VAT threshold for service businesses. 1 cent over €37,500 and you lose 23% of your revenue to the VAT person.

barneystinson

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

The exception to this rule is probably the ridiculously low VAT threshold for service businesses. 1 cent over €37,500 and you lose 23% of your revenue to the VAT person.

Overststing the problem a bit there I think.

Firstly, it's not 23% but 23/123 which is about 18.5%.

And that's only if all of your services are to unregistered customers - any of your customers who are taxable persons as well should not mind having the VAT added on as they can have a deduction for it. So except for a very few cases of people supplying their service only to the general public, a chunk of the turnover will be capable of having VAT tagged on to the top line. (If it was a third of turnover to other businesses, that'd be 23/123 * 2/3 = 12.5% of turnover)

And you get the VAT on your inputs back, so even at a relatively low level of overheads that's going to knock a few more percentage points off it...

I reckon there'd be very few people who'd be hit for more than 5 - 10% of their turnover as a result of hitting the threshold, and some who might find they're actually as well off, especially if they need to spend money on any expensive equipment / vehicle etc....

Gloomtastic!

barneystinson wrote: »

Overststing the problem a bit there I think.

Firstly, it's not 23% but 23/123 which is about 18.5%.

And that's only if all of your services are to unregistered customers - any of your customers who are taxable persons as well should not mind having the VAT added on as they can have a deduction for it. So except for a very few cases of people supplying their service only to the general public, a chunk of the turnover will be capable of having VAT tagged on to the top line. (If it was a third of turnover to other businesses, that'd be 23/123 * 2/3 = 12.5% of turnover)

And you get the VAT on your inputs back, so even at a relatively low level of overheads that's going to knock a few more percentage points off it...

I reckon there'd be very few people who'd be hit for more than 5 - 10% of their turnover as a result of hitting the threshold, and some who might find they're actually as well off, especially if they need to spend money on any expensive equipment / vehicle etc....

Always defending the indefensible Barney!

I was one of those very few people unfortunately.

Any comment on the ridiculously low threshold?

elastico

JMR wrote: »

Attracting more revenue into your company should never be viewed as a problem.

Possibly but if your online venture makes for example €2000 gross profit a year and then more than half it goes on tax and from this you have to manage a website, pay an accountant, cost for a phone and other items, and all your time and effort when there is very little left it might not be worth it after already working all day, maybe have kids, family and a life to live away from work.

Graham

elastico wrote: »

Possibly but if your online venture makes for example €2000 gross profit a year and then more than half it goes on tax and from this you have to manage a website, pay an accountant, cost for a phone and other items, and all your time and effort when there is very little left it might not be worth it after already working all day, maybe have kids, family and a life to live away from work.

Generating less income to avoid paying tax probably misses the point of being in business for most people.

Surely you still pay for your website/accountant/phone if your company makes a €2,000 before tax profit or a €25,000 loss.

elastico

Graham wrote: »

Generating less income to avoid paying tax probably misses the point of being in business for most people.

Surely you still pay for your website/accountant/phone if your company makes a €2,000 before tax profit or a €25,000 loss.

The OP wants to have a full time job and a venture on the side, in that context if its only going to be a small side business it might not be worth the bother if you are hit with top tax right away.

A full time business where you pay yourself the first whack of salary at the lower rates and bands of tax and then retain your profits after paying 12.5% corporation tax is a very different beast.