NCT in the media

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Just before i ask, i dont want to make a bashing thread or say anything about the people involved in this incident.

http://www.newstalk.com/NCT-releases-car-report-to-accident-victims-mother

Nct are after saying a car is after all roadworthy after the RSA stepped in. Whats that all about ? They say a car was having rear suspension issues but since then they released a cert to say the car was fine ?

The report is not very good but anyone know the full way of this ?

Mycroft H

I heard her on the radio today, jesus she was an awful moan.

"Well firstly I think old cars should be demolished..."

Feck off.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Mycroft H wrote: »

I heard her on the radio today, jesus she was an awful moan.

"Well firstly I think old cars should be demolished..."

Feck off.

Right well, she's an idiot.
Not all of us want 141 D d4d corollas or Kia CRDI like.:mad:

People like her result in "urge to kill, rising" :mad::mad:

Kenny Logins

I read about this but was a little reluctant to bring it up on here. I'm not sure what they hoped to find on the NCT report, which I believe was 7 months old at the time of the crash. Do some people think a pass means the car is good for the entire year, or even two years?

jimgoose

"The car was in a very bad condition, but here it passes everything - so someone has made a mistake somewhere along the line."

I'll say. I'm thinking the mistake was probably made by the person driving a clapped-out hape, possibly badly.

Stheno

She's not seriously looking to blame the NCT report when it was done seven months previously?

djimi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I read about this but was a little reluctant to bring it up on here. I'm not sure what they hoped to find on the NCT report, which I believe was 7 months old at the time of the crash. Do some people think a pass means the car is good for the entire year, or even two years?

It highlights a big problem with the NCT. People do not understand that an NCT is valid for approximately 30 minutes while its under the roof of the NCT test center. Once it drives out the door, the piece of paper on the windscreen means absolutely nothing.

I dont know the full story here, but it sounds a lot like she is trying to claim that a car that passed the test several months before an accident was declared roadworthy when it shouldnt have been?

Mycroft H

I used to work in a place where a lot of it involved working at height. Harness, helmets and fall arrest devices etc.

If I knowingly used a piece of equipment that I knew to be faulty (and could well have been certified as safe at the last inspection) and fell and injured myself I'd only have myself to blame.

Same with a car. I wouldn't drive a car with a fractured brake line for example. Why was the daughter out in it if it was known as unsafe?

The car completely failed in the subsequent weeks and Sarah is asking how it ever passed its NCT in the first place

http://www.redfm.ie/podcasts/neil-prendeville-show-podcast/

Obviously it's sad that someone died. But I somehow get the feeling they're trying to shift the blame to someone/something else.

Kenny Logins

djimi wrote: »

It highlights a big problem with the NCT. People do not understand that an NCT is valid for approximately 30 minutes while its under the roof of the NCT test center. Once it drives out the door, the piece of paper on the windscreen means absolutely nothing.

I dont know the full story here, but it sounds a lot like she is trying to claim that a car that passed the test several months before an accident was declared roadworthy when it shouldnt have been?

Just listened to the interview. It sounds like she feels the NCT offers some kind of warranty, which we all know not to be true, far from it in fact.

Could you imagine the uproar if the NCT centres began failing cars on parts that although within spec, have a slight possibility of failing before the next test?

akkakkman

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

They say a car was having rear suspension issues but since then they released a cert to say the car was fine ?

Suspension checks measure both sides and look for an imbalance. If both shocks were both as fooked as each other the car could still pass. Maybe the NCT need to tighten up on that aspect?
I have had first hand experience of the above. The NCT rep advised me to change both but I still got an NCT pass.

I wonder is that the game here?

Kenny Logins

akkakkman wrote: »

Suspension checks measure both sides and look for an imbalance. If both shocks were both as fooked as each other the car could still pass. Maybe the NCT need to tighten up on that aspect?
I have had first hand experience of the above. The NCT rep advised me to change both but I still got an NCT pass.

I wonder is that the game here?

Maybe. There is more to it than that though.



http://www.ncts.ie/pdf/NCT%20Manual%20July%202014.pdf

ardmacha

I'd say a lot of people here wouldn't be pleased if the NCT were to fail cars on the basis that they might not be right in 7 months time.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Whatever happened to a decision never been overturned ?

Dord

A lot can happen in the space of 7 months. As mentioned, its sad that she died but an NCT does not mean the car was maintained.

alias no.9

From this, her car collided with a 4x4 at a place called Cow Cross which I believe to be here (open to correction on that one from anybody with a better knowledge of Cobh).

It looks like a dangerous junction, human error on the part of one or both drivers involved is likely to have been a major factor in this. The conditions may not have been great either, Met Eireann recorded 4.3mm of rain at Cork Airport on December 30 2012.

It's a tragic loss of life but this is grasping at straws.

bladebrew

I think only the Gardai said the rear suspension was in bad condition, I don't think they stated what actually caused the crash, it may have had nothing to do with the suspension,

Spook_ie

Dord wrote: »

A lot can happen in the space of 7 months. As mentioned, its sad that she died but an NCT does not mean the car was maintained.

Correct, but I think a lot would depend on the faults found when accident investigators inspected the vehicle.


http://www.thejournal.ie/nct-result-crash-1673486-Sep2014/

For the record, it appears the vehicle was NCT'd 7 months previously, but was purchased by the women after 1 month had expired

The inquest into her death found that the car, which she had bought six months earlier, was not roadworthy but had undergone an NCT the month before she purchased it. Her mother had asked for the NCT results but the request was refused because her daughter had not been the registered owner of the car at the time.

Atlantic Dawn

It was a car bought for €600, the expectation regadless of NCT should have been small. Questions perhaps need to be asked how the seller obtained the car seeing as they were not on the logbook, either registered owner or a garage who the owner traded it in to failed to follow proper procedure selling the car.

Spook_ie

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It was a car bought for €600, the expectation regadless of NCT should have been small. Questions perhaps need to be asked how the seller obtained the car seeing as they were not on the logbook, either registered owner or a garage who the owner traded it in to failed to follow proper procedure selling the car.

It doesn't say that, it says they weren't the registered owner at the time of the NCT, where does the €600 figure come from?

Kenny Logins

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It was a car bought for €600, the expectation regadless of NCT should have been small. Questions perhaps need to be asked how the seller obtained the car seeing as they were not on the logbook, either registered owner or a garage who the owner traded it in to failed to follow proper procedure selling the car.

What!?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

This thread helped make more sense than the news link.

So the nct changed their minds about giving the report

Data protection breach there.

But in that case then the person was driving a car with no nct ?

Atlantic Dawn

Spook_ie wrote: »

It doesn't say that, it says they weren't the registered owner at the time of the NCT, where does the €600 figure come from?

But they would have to have come in to posession of the car in a non standard way if they otherwise didn't know the owner.

Price is here...

www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/nct-report-to-be-released-for-vehicle-involved-in-fatal-crash-286838.html

Markcheese

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

This thread helped make more sense than the news link.

So the nct changed their minds about giving the report

Data protection breach there.

But in that case then the person was driving a car with no nct ?

No , the article states that the car passed it's nct, 7 months before crash, was sold 1 month later but not to young woman in question... ( she may have been a named driver on family or friends policy )

alias no.9

Markcheese wrote: »

No , the article states that the car passed it's nct, 7 months before crash, was sold 1 month later but not to young woman in question... ( she may have been a named driver on family or friends policy )

I don't see where all the confusion is coming from, it was NCT'd in May and purchased by the deceased a month later. It says nothing about the poor deceased not having been the owner, just that they weren't the owner when the test was carried out.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

the examiner article clears it all up.

I personally do not see any relevance of the nct from 7 months before an accident

so much could happen in that time, between crappy country roads and a lack of up-keep of the car.

the nct report should not be involved in my humble opinion. if the car was defective at the time of the accident but fine during nct then it shouldn't even involve nct. down to the person upkeeping the vehicle.

colm_mcm

Sure I sent them an email about an obviously forged nct disc from a thread here and asked them if they can confirm that it is a genuine disc

I got this back

Thank you for your recent correspondence. Unfortunately, under the Data Protection Act we are precluded from issuing any National Car Test information to persons who cannot be identified as the owner at the time the vehicle underwent the specific NCT test. If you are now the owner of this vehicle please supply the registration number, the vehicle identification number (chassis number), your name, address and contact telephone number and I will be happy to assist you further with this matter.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me

To which I replied

Thanks for your reply. I am not the owner of this car.
Am I to believe that ncts can't/won't tell me the expiry date of an nct disc - where normally you can get it by looking at a disc in someone's window.
I can get this information by paying cartell or motorcheck for a report.
I cannot see how this has anything to do with data protection.
Given that a considerable number of discs were recently stolen, you should understand how a member of the public would be concerned over the validity of discs.
NCTSs unwillingness to provide any basic mechanism to check the validity of a disc would be laughable if car testing wasn't an important and serious matter.
Have you any suggestions as to what a member of the public should do if they suspect an nct disc is fake

Got this back and gave up.

I apologise if you are unhappy with my response but regulations regarding Data protection are precluding us from issuing this information. If you have any queries or doubts regarding the validity of an NCT Certificate it should be directed to a member of An Garda Siochana for review.

Should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

In the meantime they are giving this sensitive info out on their site if you input the reg to see when your test is due.

Spook_ie

alias no.9 wrote: »

I don't see where all the confusion is coming from, it was NCT'd in May and purchased by the deceased a month later. It says nothing about the poor deceased not having been the owner, just that they weren't the owner when the test was carried out.

That's my reading of it to, the DP act would normally preclude the information on the NCT pass/fail sheet being provided to someone who wasn't the owner of the vehicle when the test was taken.

i.e

If I sold you my car you wouldn't be able to get the NCT report just the certificate.

Despite reading the http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/nct-report-to-be-released-for-vehicle-involved-in-fatal-crash-286838.html link I still see nothing about a price ( though a 95 Mazda 121 would be worth little )

Atlantic Dawn

I think they should provide a sanitised version which has the name and address of the owner at time of test removed and for this to be available to anyone, surely no data protection criteria being abused once this is gone. The reg will already obviously be known by the person requesting it.

alias no.9

Spook_ie wrote: »

That's my reading of it to, the DP act would normally preclude the information on the NCT pass/fail sheet being provided to someone who wasn't the owner of the vehicle when the test was taken.

i.e

If I sold you my car you wouldn't be able to get the NCT report just the certificate.

Despite reading the http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/nct-report-to-be-released-for-vehicle-involved-in-fatal-crash-286838.html link I still see nothing about a price ( though a 95 Mazda 121 would be worth little )

As much as I think the NCT report is a red herring with respect to the accident, I think citing Data Protection is a bogus reason not to provide data relating to a car, provided the name and address of the owner at the time of the test is redacted.

Atlantic Dawn

Spook_ie wrote: »

That's my reading of it to, the DP act would normally preclude the information on the NCT pass/fail sheet being provided to someone who wasn't the owner of the vehicle when the test was taken.

i.e

If I sold you my car you wouldn't be able to get the NCT report just the certificate.

Despite reading the http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/nct-report-to-be-released-for-vehicle-involved-in-fatal-crash-286838.html link I still see nothing about a price ( though a 95 Mazda 121 would be worth little )

Sorry it's in this story...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/nct-wont-release-report-on-car-in-fatal-road-crash-286383.html

alias no.9

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Sorry it's in this story...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/nct-wont-release-report-on-car-in-fatal-road-crash-286383.html

Ok, that one does introduce confusion

Amanda had bought the car six months earlier from a man in Cork for €600. The man had arranged for it to undergo an NCT on May 31, 2012, and a certificate was issued.

Ms Murphy asked him to request the NCT test sheet, but the NCT found he was not the registered owner of the car at the time of the test.

So Ms Murphy asked the seller to request the test report, after the crash I assume, so the "a man" is not a total stranger, perhaps "an acquaintance"?

Stheno

alias no.9 wrote: »

So Ms Murphy asked the seller to request the test report, after the crash I assume, so the "a man" is not a total stranger, perhaps "an acquaintance"?

If he was the person who put it through the NCT he'd have the report, which indicates he wasn't

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

Stheno wrote: »

If he was the person who put it through the NCT he'd have the report, which indicates he wasn't

i still think that is very besides the point

at the time the car passed either way. and either way 7 months later, it doesn't matter

alias no.9

Stheno wrote: »

If he was the person who put it through the NCT he'd have the report, which indicates he wasn't

It says he sold it to her and that he had arranged for it to be tested and a certificate had been issued. He may have discarded the report or whatever but he was more than just "a man" if he was contactable.

djimi

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sure I sent them an email about an obviously forged nct disc from a thread here and asked them if they can confirm that it is a genuine disc

I got this back

To which I replied

Got this back and gave up.

In the meantime they are giving this sensitive info out on their site if you input the reg to see when your test is due.

Data protection laws are a nice easy blanket for companies to hide under, however an alarming amount of the time the company who is trying to use them havent got the first clue what it all means.

There is absolutely nothing in breach of data protection for them to tell you if a disc is valid or not (ie yes or no) and it makes no sense at all that they wouldnt.

All NCT information needs to be made publically available to everyone; there is no point in having a car testing system if the information is not made available to buyers.

Cerco

colm_mcm wrote: »

Sure I sent them an email about an obviously forged nct disc from a thread here and asked them if they can confirm that it is a genuine disc

I got this back




To which I replied




Got this back and gave up.




In the meantime they are giving this sensitive info out on their site if you input the reg to see when your test is due.

Ah yes, but you see they are not releasing the information. It's the computer!
A systems failure...the perennial excuse when things go wrong in this country. Nobody is responsible.

Old diesel

It was a dreadful tragedy - but there are a number of realities here

1) the NCT just assesses the cars condition and performance on the test ON THE DAY OF THE TEST. If shes claiming the car shouldn't have passed - id be expecting/hoping her expert witnesses and the garda expert to produce evidence to show the car was in fact defective ON THE DAY OF THE TEST. Hard to prove 7 months down the line

2) The owner should be responsible for ensuring the car is kept in good working order - they may not be an expert on cars or know anything about them - but in that case - you pay a mechanic to carry out servicing and checks of the car.

Or am I completely wrong in my thinking

Dreadful situation

Mycroft H

Your right on both accounts. An avoidable tragedy.

Kenny Logins

Interview here. The mother said that the assessor stated that there was no way the suspension components could have degraded as much as they did within 6 months.

http://www.redfm.ie/podcasts/neil-prendeville-show-podcast/

Download and skip to 01:18:45

djimi

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Interview here. The mother said that the assessor stated that there was no way the suspension components could have degraded as much as they did within 6 months.

http://www.redfm.ie/podcasts/neil-prendeville-show-podcast/

Download and skip to 01:18:45

Surely thats only opinion though, and there is no way on earth that they can prove the condition of the parts 7 months ago when it went through the test?

Kenny Logins

djimi wrote: »

Surely thats only opinion though, and there is no way on earth that they can prove the condition of the parts 7 months ago when it went through the test?

Yep, I'd be interested to see the assessor's report, and hear what he actually said. If there was heavy corrosion maybe, but surely a leaky shock and/or broken spring can't be predicted months in advance?

Cabaal

ardmacha wrote: »

I'd say a lot of people here wouldn't be pleased if the NCT were to fail cars on the basis that they might not be right in 7 months time.

Indeed they wouldn't be happy,
As it is they are unhappy when their car fails on the test day!

Guy:Incognito

djimi wrote: »

Surely thats only opinion though, and there is no way on earth that they can prove the condition of the parts 7 months ago when it went through the test?

Theres too many variables in 7 months for anyone to say anything is definitely one qay or another.

The car could have been crashed and repaired with parts from a scrapyard in the month between the nct and the sale. The same could have happened in 6 months up to the crash and the daughter didn't tell her mother. who knows.

djimi

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Theres too many variables in 7 months for anyone to say anything is definitely one qay or another.

The car could have been crashed and repaired with parts from a scrapyard in the month between the nct and the sale. The same could have happened in 6 months up to the crash and the daughter didn't tell her mother. who knows.

Thats a fair point actually. NCT dont record the serial number of the parts that they test, so there is no way for anyone to say for sure that the part in the car now was the part that was in the car when it was tested.

quadrifoglio verde

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Theres too many variables in 7 months for anyone to say anything is definitely one qay or another.

The car could have been crashed and repaired with parts from a scrapyard in the month between the nct and the sale. The same could have happened in 6 months up to the crash and the daughter didn't tell her mother. who knows.

Or good shocks could have been put on before the test and taken off after. But alas none of that can be proved

Cerco

Is there conclusive proof at this stage that the issues with car caused or contributed to the crash?
If not all the scenarios are moot.