Using the deposit as last months rent

shadowcomplex · 12-09-2014 11:02pm #1

Hear alot of stories of landlords and letting agencies being notoriously bad to get the deposit back off so I was wondering of anyone here decides not to pay the last months rent and tell them keep the deposit, its basically a you or them attitude. Is there anything they can do?

indigo twist · 12-09-2014 11:05pm

They can choose not provide a reference for you.

It's a crappy thing to do to a landlord, and it gives the rest of us who rent a bad name. It's because of people like you that it's becoming more and more common for landlords to look for a deposit worth two months rent.

I've been renting for a decade now, moving on average once a year, always got my deposit back. Always got great references too.

The_Morrigan · 12-09-2014 11:10pm

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Hear alot of stories of landlords and letting agencies being notoriously bad to get the deposit back off so I was wondering of anyone here decides not to pay the last months rent and tell them keep the deposit, its basically a you or them attitude. Is there anything they can do?

The deposit is not rent, so by not paying the rent for the last month you are breaking the law.

shadowcomplex · 12-09-2014 11:15pm

indigo twist wrote: »

They can choose not provide a reference for you.

It's a crappy thing to do to a landlord, and it gives the rest of us who rent a bad name. It's because of people like you that it's becoming more and more common for landlords to look for a deposit worth two months rent.

I've been renting for a decade now, moving on average once a year, always got my deposit back. Always got great references too.

Hey your jumping to conclusions. Never said I actually did it or planning to do it. By the way do a search for deposit on this forum. What you'll find is that alot of honest people that do pay the the last months rent get ripped off when the landlord or agency decides not to pay back the deposit for no reason.

L1011 · 12-09-2014 11:39pm

shadowcomplex wrote: »

What you'll find is that alot of honest people that do pay the the last months rent get ripped off when the landlord or agency decides not to pay back the deposit for no reason.

What is what you have the PRTB for.

quadrifoglio verde · 12-09-2014 11:41pm

shadowcomplex wrote: »

Hear alot of stories of landlords and letting agencies being notoriously bad to get the deposit back off so I was wondering of anyone here decides not to pay the last months rent and tell them keep the deposit, its basically a you or them attitude. Is there anything they can do?

As mentioned already they can refuse to give you a reference and good luck finding a new place without a reference from your previous landlord (there was a thread on here a few weeks ago about someone who'd used the deposit as the last month rent and now couldn't find anywhere due to no references).
It's stupid to use the deposit as the last months rent. The only way the landlord can keep the deposit, is if he spends the deposit on putting the property back to the same way that you got it and provided it was beyond reasonable wear and tear (e.g a slashed couch would be beyond, a sagging couch due to where someone regularly sat would be reasonable)

So if you leave the apartment like a kip, the only way the landlord can hold onto your deposit is if he gets in cleaners to clean the apartment. If he decided to clean it, he can only charge for the supplies and not his time. He must provide receipts, if he doesn't it won't stand up in the prtb case. He can't even keep the entire amount, all he can keep is the amount that the cleaning company charged.
It's not in the landlords best interest to keep a deposit for the sake of keeping it, if he's keeping the deposit, the only way he's going to do so is if he can prove that place was damaged or left like a kip and he had to get professionals in to do so.

In which case he's no more financially better off, than had the tenant left it the way they got it and he returned the deposit.

Tldr:
If you leave it the way you got it, you will get your deposit back

Th3B1tcH · 12-09-2014 11:44pm

Agreed its a crappy thing to do most LL are ok and give it back people that dont pay last month and use it normally know they did something above wear and tear or dont clean leave rubbish etc the LL lose money to do.
If you have good relationship with them no need worry bout it.

LL like us need protect themself so it means they raise deposits some even want 3 months now pluz bank statments , using it as last months rent (and its against the law)unless you on really bad terms imo we should never do.
Tip I picked up years ago if a building with more tennants ask them if any hassle getting it and why back if they move out before you

stateofflux · 13-09-2014 8:45am

part of the reason tenants are doing this is that a lot of them know how slow & inefficient the PRTB is in relation to Deposit retentions in comparison to the small claims court.

_Kaiser_ · 13-09-2014 2:38pm

MYOB wrote: »

What is what you have the PRTB for.

- Which isn't much good when you need that money for the deposit on your new place (and the notion suggested on this forum before of having a few k to hand just in case doesn't work either.. if ya had that kind of money why not just buy?)

- Or don't have the months needed to pursue it

- And run the risk that the landlord may not engage at all and you need to pursue it as a civil matter in court (wasn't there a thread like this recently?)

Don't get me wrong.. I'm not defending the idea of using the deposit as rent, but the PRTB is far from the white knight some think it is. The whole system needs reforming for BOTH sides... but as long as we're busy stoking the new property bubble I wouldn't hold my breath!

handlemaster · 13-09-2014 3:58pm

This à gain high lights tenants poor attitude. Deposit is to cover damages. Landlords need to ask for two months as deposit or one month deposit and another month to cover the last months rent.

syklops · 13-09-2014 4:14pm

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The OP was asking about using the deposit as the last months rent after the landlord had refused to give back the deposit which is a very common occurrence, but automatically the tenant is the bad guy for even considering it.

indigo twist · 13-09-2014 4:22pm

syklops wrote: »

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The OP was asking about using the deposit as the last months rent after the landlord had refused to give back the deposit which is a very common occurrence, but automatically the tenant is the bad guy for even considering it.

Are you referring to some other thread here where the OP outlined such a scenario ...? Because I don't see it being stated in this thread, and I'm not particularly arsed searching any previous threads, if you're referring to something in one of those?

handlemaster · 13-09-2014 5:47pm

syklops wrote: »

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The OP was asking about using the deposit as the last months rent after the landlord had refused to give back the deposit which is a very common occurrence, but automatically the tenant is the bad guy for even considering it.

But the OP is asking is this OK. Without saying why the land lord would hold it back.

syklops · 13-09-2014 8:41pm

handlemaster wrote: »

But the OP is asking is this OK. Without saying why the land lord would hold it back.

Because it is common practice for the landlord to decide on whim you are not getting your deposit back.

handlemaster · 14-09-2014 6:56am

syklops wrote: »

Because it is common practice for the landlord to decide on whim you are not getting your deposit back.

That is just nonsence , where is your proof of this? Its as likely as saying all tenants leave with rent still owed.

plodder · 14-09-2014 7:32am

You hear a lot of stories, but are they true, or is it the same story being recycled over and over. My daughter rented a place for college last year, and during the year, the landlord was a bit iffy about a few things they said they'd do. So, we thought about doing that as we had the same concern. But, we didn't and I'm glad we didn't. When she was leaving, she cleaned the place out and left it in exaclt the same state as she got it. No problem getting the deposit back. I'd be surprised at any experienced/professional landlord withholding a deposit without good reason. But, I've no experience other than this one to go on.

syklops · 14-09-2014 11:01am

handlemaster wrote: »

That is just nonsence , where is your proof of this? Its as likely as saying all tenants leave with rent still owed.

Where is my proof? 10+ years renting in Ireland. It is not nonsense. Maybe you are a professional landlord and you have never stolen a tenants deposit, but are you really defending every landlord in the country as all being upstanding and honest? Thats nonsense.

JeffKenna · 14-09-2014 11:06am

handlemaster wrote: »

That is just nonsence , where is your proof of this? Its as likely as saying all tenants leave with rent still owed.

Far from nonsense to suggest that. Personally I have been stung by such a landlord and I know others who have been as well. Not every landlord is as honest and upstanding as you may think.

A2LUE42 · 14-09-2014 11:09am

MYOB wrote: »

What is what you have the PRTB for.

Farce of an organisation at the best of times. Local office here refuses to help anyone who isn't on welfare payments. All they seem to do is waste peoples time.

quadrifoglio verde · 14-09-2014 11:13am

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Farce of an organisation at the best of times. Local office here refuses to help anyone who isn't on welfare payments. All they seem to do is waste peoples time.

The PRTB only helps people on welfare payments?

You sure that you're not getting them confused with someone else. I never even knew they had local offices

Shadylou · 14-09-2014 12:09pm

A lot of people don't have the money to wait for the prtb to get them their deposit back....a colleague of mine had to wait 8 months for the prtb to rule in their favour and another 3 month for the landlord to actually pay up...there should be a better system in place for deposits than the landlord pocketing it and being able to decide on a whim whether to give it back or not

MouseTail · 14-09-2014 1:28pm

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Farce of an organisation at the best of times. Local office here refuses to help anyone who isn't on welfare payments. All they seem to do is waste peoples time.

Are you confusing the PRTB with Citizen Information Centres?

P_1 · 14-09-2014 5:33pm

A simple change to the Residential Tenancies Act that requires all deposits to be put into an account the landlord has no access to until a 'handover cert' is completed could nip this bull in the bud. Why it hasn't been done yet I don't know

handlemaster · 14-09-2014 6:06pm

syklops wrote: »

Where is my proof? 10+ years renting in Ireland. It is not nonsense. Maybe you are a professional landlord and you have never stolen a tenants deposit, but are you really defending every landlord in the country as all being upstanding and honest? Thats nonsense.

I simply draw the same conclusion with tenants and landlords most are honest people and by prempting a problem without any good reason is dishonest. I have rented also in countless places only had issue once with a landlord and deposit

beauf · 14-09-2014 11:27pm

P_1 wrote: »

A simple change to the Residential Tenancies Act that requires all deposits to be put into an account the landlord or tenant has no access to until a 'handover cert' is completed could nip this bull in the bud. Why it hasn't been done yet I don't know

Fixed your post. Needed for both parties.

cerastes · 14-09-2014 11:35pm

P_1 wrote: »

A simple change to the Residential Tenancies Act that requires all deposits to be put into an account the landlord has no access to until a 'handover cert' is completed could nip this bull in the bud. Why it hasn't been done yet I don't know

Because it would end up as inefficient as the PRTB and funded by the landlord.

Shadylou · 15-09-2014 6:48am

cerastes wrote: »

Because it would end up as inefficient as the PRTB and funded by the landlord.

The landlord should fund it of course as a business expense. You hear so many landlords complaining of tenants using the deposit as last months rent you would think they would be glad to avail of a service like this. It would also put an end to unscrupulous landlords deducting money from the deposit for wear and tear

quadrifoglio verde · 15-09-2014 6:50am

Shadylou wrote: »

The landlord should fund it of course as a business expense. You hear so many landlords complaining of tenants using the deposit as last months rent you would think they would be glad to avail of a service like this. It would also put an end to unscrupulous landlords deducting money from the deposit for wear and tear

Or it should be funded 50:50 between landlord and tenant as you hear so much about tenants getting screwed by rogue landlords.
Anyway if the landlord gets screwed by the tenant who uses the deposit as the last months rent, he's no better off under the new system, than the old. Either way he's left getting screwed if the tenant hasn't paid the last month rent and has done damage

Arbiter of Good Taste · 15-09-2014 7:31am

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

Or it should be funded 50:50 between landlord and tenant as you hear so much about tenants getting screwed by rogue landlords.
Anyway if the landlord gets screwed by the tenant who uses the deposit as the last months rent, he's no better off under the new system, than the old. Either way he's left getting screwed if the tenant hasn't paid the last month rent and has done damage

Should be solved by having a system where a deposit is equivalent of 2 months rent followed by speedy eviction (ie a few weeks) for non payment of rent provided the LL follows (reasonable) protocol. Also, we need to put in place a register of rogue tenants which is available to landlords who are up to date with their PRTB payments.

It's never going to happen here..

Makood · 15-09-2014 7:51am

I have rented several places and always got the deposit back-except the last place.
I knew the minute I met the landlord and his wife on our departure there was going to be a problem. The place was in better condition when we left than when we moved in but they invented cleaners etc to avoid paying the deposit back.

Would I hold the last months rent back based on this? No. It was a once off rogue landlord. I hope to think he is in the minority.

We have just recently discovered that the old apartment is now being rented to some lovely ladies who appear to be very popular with the local menfolk. Little apples.....

Arbiter of Good Taste · 15-09-2014 9:29am

Makood wrote: »

I have rented several places and always got the deposit back-except the last place.
I knew the minute I met the landlord and his wife on our departure there was going to be a problem. The place was in better condition when we left than when we moved in but they invented cleaners etc to avoid paying the deposit back.

Would I hold the last months rent back based on this? No. It was a once off rogue landlord. I hope to think he is in the minority.

We have just recently discovered that the old apartment is now being rented to some lovely ladies who appear to be very popular with the local menfolk. Little apples.....

But they need to prove they have paid cleaners in order to withhold part of the deposit? Have they provided an invoice?

Makood · 15-09-2014 9:48am

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

But they need to prove they have paid cleaners in order to withhold part of the deposit? Have they provided an invoice?

Yes,
A rather spurious looking one. I just left it as didn't feel it was worth the hassle chasing it up.

JeffKenna · 15-09-2014 9:50am

Makood wrote: »

Yes,
A rather spurious looking one. I just left it as didn't feel it was worth the hassle chasing it up.

Just make sure it has a VAT number on it?

Makood · 15-09-2014 9:52am

JeffKenna wrote: »

Just make sure it has a VAT number on it?

It didn't. As I said I knew I wasn't going to have any luck here so I left it.
Probably the wrong thing to do in hindsight but it's a year ago now so a bit late to do anything,

handlemaster · 15-09-2014 10:02am

JeffKenna wrote: »

Just make sure it has a VAT number on it?

Not all businesses are VATregistered.

Lux23 · 15-09-2014 10:10am

I asked the letting agency and they said it was fine by them, mind you there is nothing that we could break or take that would damage the property.

JeffKenna · 15-09-2014 10:15am

handlemaster wrote: »

Not all businesses are VATregistered.

True, but in reality if there's not a vat number it leaves the invoice open to question. I suppose if it has the cro number on it you'd have to accept it.

Tar.Aldarion · 15-09-2014 5:15pm

stateofflux wrote: »

part of the reason tenants are doing this is that a lot of them know how slow & inefficient the PRTB is in relation to Deposit retentions in comparison to the small claims court.

Yep it is all well and good when people say go through them, but when you can't afford to wait? The system here sucks for both parties yet nothing changes.

My landlord and estate agent has never even seen the inside of my apartment, I doubt they could make any claims as to withhold a deposit haha.

Mrs OBumble · 15-09-2014 6:08pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

True, but in reality if there's not a vat number it leaves the invoice open to question. I suppose if it has the cro number on it you'd have to accept it.

Nope. Sole traders do not have to be either VAT or CRO registered.

JeffKenna · 15-09-2014 6:39pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nope. Sole traders do not have to be either VAT or CRO registered.

And that's where invoices can become dodgy as proof that the landlord paid for 'cleaning' costs. If, as in this situation the tenant claims no cleaning was required yet the landlord paid the full deposit towards cleaning it's not a huge leap to wonder if the landlord walked into a pound shop and simply bought and invoice book and wrote one out himself.

Using the deposit as last months rent

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