Driving in UK - observations

christy02

I have just spent a couple of weeks in the UK on holidays where we drove nearly 3000 km. I noticed a significant difference in driving habits as opposed to over here.

Lane discipline on roundabouts better
No parking across 2 spaces in car parks
Few if any 40mph on a 60mph road

Motorways were the main difference though. Motorists actually drive in the left lane even on 3 lane motorways which is incommon here. They also anticipate when someone may need to pull out and slow up to let them out rather than sit on there outside cruising.

Why is there such a difference in driving habits in our near neighbours and what are we doing wrong to have such an amount of ignorant drivers here?

swarlb

christy02 wrote: »

I have just spent a couple of weeks in the UK on holidays where we drove nearly 3000 km. I noticed a significant difference in driving habits as opposed to over here.

Lane discipline on roundabouts better
No parking across 2 spaces in car parks
Few if any 40mph on a 60mph road

Motorways were the main difference though. Motorists actually drive in the left lane even on 3 lane motorways which is incommon here. They also anticipate when someone may need to pull out and slow up to let them out rather than sit on there outside cruising.

Why is there such a difference in driving habits in our near neighbours and what are we doing wrong to have such an amount of ignorant drivers here?

Because we don't care......

George Dalton

I actually think that lane discipline on motorways in the UK has disimproved over the last 10 years to the extent that they aren't much better than us at this stage!

corktina

because they have had proper training and enforcement for years

christy02

Why don't we care?

coylemj

Part of the reason is probably because they have had motorways in the UK since the 1950s so the cops have been out and about on motorways enforcing the regulations whereas over here we managed to develop bad motorway driving habits before they decided to put together a Garda traffic corps.

As a result, middle lane hogging is now an epidemic and you're more likely to be pulled over for undertaking one car on an Irish motorway than be booked for driving 50 kms in the middle lane.

corktina

George Dalton wrote: »

I actually think that lane discipline on motorways in the UK has disimproved over the last 10 years to the extent that they aren't much better than us at this stage!

maybe not but there are 10 times as many vehicles on the motorway so it hardly matters sometimes if you stay in the middle lane, there are so many in the inside lane.

christy02

George Dalton wrote: »

I actually think that lane discipline on motorways in the UK has disimproved over the last 10 years to the extent that they aren't much better than us at this stage!

Not from what I saw. Motorists overtake and move back to the left. As I said they will also pull back if they feel that you need to pull out.

Joe Doe

Can confirm roundabouts there are observed and both 'signal indication' + a 'give-way procedure' are adhered to properly.

visual

Because we zealous enforce speed and can't be bothered about the rest of the rules of the road

greenflash

I lived in London for a few years in the early 90s and have driven the length and breadth of Britain for work since then. In recent years I've found there is a growing selfishness in creeping into British driving, whereas as being a selfish, inconsiderate, ignorant bastard behind the wheel is the norm here and has been for years.

As for lanes, if you drive a British motorway at night or early on a weekend morning, pretty much everyone is in the left lane. If you drive the M50 at night or early on a weekend morning, pretty much everyone is in the middle lane.

I'm not calling it UK as in my opinion NI is as bad as ROI in terms of general road usage. Irish drivers aren't particularly dangerous, just largely ignorant.

Hachiko

christy02 wrote: »

I have just spent a couple of weeks in the UK on holidays where we drove nearly 3000 km. I noticed a significant difference in driving habits as opposed to over here.

Lane discipline on roundabouts better
No parking across 2 spaces in car parks
Few if any 40mph on a 60mph road

Motorways were the main difference though. Motorists actually drive in the left lane even on 3 lane motorways which is incommon here. They also anticipate when someone may need to pull out and slow up to let them out rather than sit on there outside cruising.

Why is there such a difference in driving habits in our near neighbours and what are we doing wrong to have such an amount of ignorant drivers here?

I have been over here a while, driving in the UK is vastly different than Ireland. You would get blown away on motorways here, and on most A roads, people don't just hang around.

in or around cities and town you meet the sunday drivers and grannys but on the main roads and motorways its a much better driving experience than Ireland.

NIMAN

As someone who learned to drive in NI and drove his early years there, I always thought that the Northern driver was of a better quality than their Southern counterpart.

Over the last decade though I've started to change my mind. Northern drivers are now quite average at best. Too many people breaking too many rules, lack of courtesy, speed etc.

chicorytip

What we refer to as motorways in this country
are simply dual carraigeways M7, M4 etc. The only
way to improve lane discipline in future will be to make it a component of the driving
test.

worded

I saw loads of crashes there from holly head to London one road trip. 4 if I recall correct

CiniO

christy02 wrote: »

I have just spent a couple of weeks in the UK on holidays where we drove nearly 3000 km. I noticed a significant difference in driving habits as opposed to over here.

Lane discipline on roundabouts better
No parking across 2 spaces in car parks
Few if any 40mph on a 60mph road

Motorways were the main difference though. Motorists actually drive in the left lane even on 3 lane motorways which is incommon here. They also anticipate when someone may need to pull out and slow up to let them out rather than sit on there outside cruising.

Why is there such a difference in driving habits in our near neighbours and what are we doing wrong to have such an amount of ignorant drivers here?

Why?
Answer is really simple.

Because until few years ago (I think 4) there was no such thing as driver training in Ireland. Anyone taking lessons with instructor was really rare thing, and even if that happen, anyone could be an instructor without any training.
People were (and still are) allowed on the road without driving licence at all.

Everyone learnt to drive by themselves, or best possibly with family member (father, mother, brother sister, friend).

Generally, most Irish drivers have no clue about rules of the road, and how vehicles should be driven. Main motto is - just take it easy and you'll be grand.
And unfortunately this years of ignorance can be clearly seen on Irish roads.

Now 12 hours obligatory lessons were introduced, and some people complain it's a money racket, and cost of obtaining the licence is ridiculous.

So just to let you know - cost of obtaining driving licence in most EU countries is way more than double or triple that in Ireland. Lots of countries require between 30 - 50 hours lessons with instructor before you can attempt a driving test.

Driving is fairly complicated task, which very easily can end up fatally if not done properly. Why do people think they can learn it themselves.

RandomAccess

Sure if the car was invented today there's no way in hell anybody would be trusted to manually drive one on the public road.

Sheldons Brain

chicorytip wrote: »

What we refer to as motorways in this country
are simply dual carraigeways M7, M4 etc. The only
way to improve lane discipline in future will be to make it a component of the driving
test.

Of course they are motorways, albeit only D2M motorways.

SteM

CiniO wrote: »

Now 12 hours obligatory lessons were introduced, and some people complain it's a money racket, and cost of obtaining the licence is ridiculous.

Yet none of those 12 hours are on a motorway.

The fact that you can drive home on a motorway after you pass your test despite never having driven on one before amazes me.

When I passed my test I called my instructor to let him know and asked him if we could book an hour of motorway driving so I could get my barings. He said I was only the second pupil of his that had ever asked (in 15 years) and he brought me out for a few hours for free.

Chris_Heilong

I dont know, it does not look too different to driving here.

dr.fuzzenstein

christy02 wrote: »

Why don't we care?

Because everyone here drives as if they're the only person on the road. The general attitude is "me from a to b any which way". This could be the extend of the ROTR and it would be the same. We don't care about other road users, markings, signs, restrictions and we all have a God Given Right to Be On The Road!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

BMJD

I drove about 1500 km in southern England last month. I found that the left lane of the motorways was almost always only used by lorries/trucks and people about to exit. The other 2 lanes were used properly most of the time, if that's not a contradiction of sorts. Other drivers seemed a lot more courteous to each other, letting cars into land easier which helps traffic flow a lot. I noticed that very few people indicated "right" on roundabouts when entering of they were heading past 12 o'clock, just indicating left when at their exit. Road signage was generally far better than here, apart from the stupid end of speed limit signs which should of course just state the actual limit.

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

Now 12 hours obligatory lessons were introduced, and some people complain it's a money racket, and cost of obtaining the licence is ridiculous.

Well it wouldn't be the first time this Country has dreamt up a racket so you can forgive people for being sceptical.

If somebody passes the driving test, should they not be considered eligible to drive?

I've a friend who moved here from the States and he cant get over how difficult, draw out and expensive it is to get on the road here. I can't say I disagree with him

Jesus.

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I dont know, it does not look too different to driving here.

Chris, you was lane-hogging in that video

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

testicle

RandomAccess wrote: »

Sure if the car was invented today there's no way in hell anybody would be trusted to manually drive one on the public road.

Why would we need public roads if we had no cars? ;-)

Jesus.

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That is true. Lane discipline is non-existent out there

imitation

Never driven in the UK, but after driving on the continent I have to say I prefer Ireland. Most continental drivers are OK, but everyso often you get these homicidal manics (mainly in italy ) who cut into your slow lane two feet in front of your bumper, often for no reason as they had a clear run in the fast lane.

That being said, one of the worst things I hatr about Irish driving is the tools who sit out in the middle on narrow windy roads, and due to the lack of those roads you don't get too much of that abroad.

RuggieBear

living in the Britain for last few years, driving is definitely better overall but standard is declining imo.

British motorways are mentally busy, so I think for the most part you have to have better lane discipline.

Main thing for me is that far fewer people go through orange when lights are changing. Was back home the other weekend with the car and more than once people nearly went into the back of me as I stopped at red lights...

H3llR4iser

Jesus. wrote: »

That is true. Lane discipline is non-existent out there

Ehm...because there is no such thing as strict "lane discipline" on US highways in most states, as it's perfectly legal to overtake either side?

SteM

Jesus. wrote: »

....
I've a friend who moved here from the States and he cant get over how difficult, draw out and expensive it is to get on the road here. I can't say I disagree with him

Drawn out in what sense? Take and pass your theory, do your lessons & six months later apply for your test and when you pass you're on the road.

Coming from a country that will give him a firearm over the counter that may seem like a drawn out process but a car in the hands of a bad driver is as bad as a firearm imo.

Up until relatively recently you didn't have to do any lessons at all iirc. Back in the late 70's I seem to recall a license amnesty, a generation of drivers on the road that never had to take their test who are in their 60's (or even 70's!) now. He would prefer a 6 month wait and be driving on safer roads surely?

swarlb

chicorytip wrote: »

What we refer to as motorways in this country
are simply dual carraigeways M7, M4 etc. The only
way to improve lane discipline in future will be to make it a component of the driving
test.

While I think many people will understand what you mean, there is a significant difference between motorways and dual carriageways, and it's nothing to do with the amount of lanes.
The M7 and the M4 etc, are motorways. How people choose to drive on them, does not detract from the fact, that, they are motorways.

pred racer

SteM wrote: »

Drawn out in what sense? Take and pass your theory, do your lessons & six months later apply for your test and when you pass you're on the road.

Coming from a country that will give him a firearm over the counter that may seem like a drawn out process but a car in the hands of a bad driver is as bad as a firearm imo.

Up until relatively recently you didn't have to do any lessons at all iirc. Back in the late 70's I seem to recall a license amnesty, a generation of drivers on the road that never had to take their test who are in their 60's (or even 70's!) now. He would prefer a 6 month wait and be driving on safer roads surely?

Why do you have to do lessons? If you can pass an exam you don't have to go to the lectures!

If you can pass the competency test for driving fine, if not go get more lessons, simples!

My Dad (who never did a test) taught me to drive, I took a couple of lessons (4 iirc)before my test to brush up on correct techniques and passed.
I have been successfully driving now for 27 years.

12 bloody lessons at circa €600, somebody in the driving instructors crowd slipped someone in the govt quite a few quid methinks.

Someone will no doubt bring up learners driving alone, if we had enforced the rules we already had, we wouldn't need new ones:rolleyes:

pred racer

Btw, motorway driving can't be put on the test as not every county has motorway in it;)

SteM

pred racer wrote: »

Why do you have to do lessons? If you can pass an exam you don't have to go to the lectures!

If you can pass the competency test for driving fine, if not go get more lessons, simples!

My Dad (who never did a test) taught me to drive, I took a couple of lessons (4 iirc)before my test to brush up on correct techniques and passed.
I have been successfully driving now for 27 years.

12 bloody lessons at circa €600, somebody in the driving instructors crowd slipped someone in the govt quite a few quid methinks.

Someone will no doubt bring up learners driving alone, if we had enforced the rules we already had, we wouldn't need new ones:rolleyes:

I'm not even going to get into this with you, we obviously have different views on road safety. The idea of someone that has never had a lesson or test teaching someone else to drive fills me with dread. No wonder I see so much muppetry on the roads on a daily basis.

One thing I will say is that 12 edt lessons can be had for €340 so please don't exaggerate saying they're €600.

pred racer

SteM wrote: »

I'm not even going to get into this with you, we obviously have different views on road safety. The idea of someone that has never had a lesson or test teaching someone else to drive fills me with dread. No wonder I see so much muppetry on the roads on a daily basis.

One thing I will say is that 12 edt lessons can be had for €340 so please don't exaggerate saying they're €600.

It's easy to scare you so:D
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.
At the risk of going OT I was looking for lessons for my daughter earlier in the year and everywhere I checked it was €600, I'm quite happy to be corrected on that one;)

Boskowski

I will say the same thing I said over on the thread with the horrible bike accident on video.

Peoples attitude to driving is way too laid back. As in whats the big deal sure I never had a lesson and I'm a great driver. People drive in fkd up death trap bangers, 'can I use 4 different tires on my car?, sure buddy', munching away, phone clipped between ear and shoulder as if driving a vehicle is the same as pushing a shopping trolley down the aisle. Thats the general attitude.

You are driving a 2 ton propelled vehicle that can turn in the blink of an eye into a deadly weapon.
Well you personally may be a great driver after never having had a lesson. I'm not saying you're not although the thing is you probably don't even realise the mistakes you make (since you never had a lesson that is).

Anyway... Here is the real question. Lets assume you're fantastic yourself, but do you see all those other muppets out there? I walk through Tesco any given day and half the people I observe I'm amazed they managed to tie their laces before they went out the door. Hills have Eyes stuff nearly. These people are also allowed to drive said 2 ton propelled vehicle without any lesson whatsoever.

Let me put it that way? Would you be willing to make handguns freely available? I bet you wouldn't and the reason you wouldn't is because there are so many idiots out there who couldn't be trusted with one. The thing is a car is not soooo different from a handgun. It takes a lot responsibility to use one. The general populace cannot be trusted with hardly anything, people are idiots. Its unfortunate and sad but its true.

tipperary

testicle wrote: »

Why would we need public roads if we had no cars? ;-)

ah, for the horses of course

dr.fuzzenstein

pred racer wrote: »

Why do you have to do lessons? If you can pass an exam you don't have to go to the lectures!

If you can pass the competency test for driving fine, if not go get more lessons, simples!

My Dad (who never did a test) taught me to drive, I took a couple of lessons (4 iirc)before my test to brush up on correct techniques and passed.
I have been successfully driving now for 27 years.

12 bloody lessons at circa €600, somebody in the driving instructors crowd slipped someone in the govt quite a few quid methinks.

Someone will no doubt bring up learners driving alone, if we had enforced the rules we already had, we wouldn't need new ones:rolleyes:

No, what I'm bringing up is, take all the above and replace driving licence with pilot's licence.
"Good Morning Ladies and Gentleman, I am Captain Fuzzenstein and I will be your pilot today. I didn't go to no fancy flying school and I believe a license is just a piece of paper that's worth absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with my ability to fly. I learnt it all from books, flight simulators and flying around with my Uncle Joe and he learnt to fly from Aunt Irma. I haven't yet done cross Atlantic flights or night-flying, but sure, how hard can it be? I'll just use the sat nav on my phone, sure be grand, hey why is everyone running off the plane screaming?"
THAT is the Irish attitude to proper driver training and licensing. Ah shurrebegrandtofook.

Yakuza

I drove ~1200km last month (Holyhead to Portsmouth and back), pretty much all motorway and A roads (tip: avoid the A34 on a Friday afternoon/evening if you can; nightmare traffic, one stage of about 10 miles took over an hour due to sheer volume, no incidents) and I found discipline and courtesy to be fine. I ended up staying in the middle lane @120 as the inside lane was pretty much full of lorries and other 60mph traffic, while the Land Rovers and X5s blasted up lane 3:)

anothernight

Joe Doe wrote: »

Can confirm roundabouts there are observed and both 'signal indication' + a 'give-way procedure' are adhered to properly.

Depends on the area. Where I live in the UK, it's extremely rare to see someone indicating both when entering and exiting a roundabout.

About half the people I encounter on my commute every day (motorway all the way through) don't bother indicating when changing lanes, or indicate for one flash only, midway through the manoeuvre.

If the traffic is flowing smoothly, it's impossible to keep to the 70mph speed limit unless driving behind a truck (which are limited to 60mph anyway) because everyone speeds so much. And moving across two lanes (often without looking and without indicating) all in one go is so common that my boyfriend and I have now decided to call it the "English lane changing". Very, very aggressive driving.

Moving here was a huge eye opener. Still, driving in my area is not too bad if I just assume that everyone will change lanes without looking or indicating while driving at 80-100mph. Coventry, on the other hand, has an insane ring road where the people merging and people exiting the ring road must somehow avoid each other in some crazy herringbone pattern because the entrance and exit to the ring road happen at the same spot. This leads to having cars moving left, right, and straight on all in the same small space of the same lane... and it's horrible.


ETA: Other things I've noticed is that cyclists here never run red lights, cars never ever move when the lights are red and amber, only when they've finally turned green, and bikers are mostly suicidal in how fast they ride and how often they jump into roundabouts without yielding to cars already on the roundabouts.

Jesus.

pred racer wrote: »

Why do you have to do lessons? If you can pass an exam you don't have to go to the lectures!If you can pass the competency test for driving fine, if not go get more lessons, simples! My Dad (who never did a test) taught me to drive, I took a couple of lessons (4 iirc)before my test to brush up on correct techniques and passed.I have been successfully driving now for 27 years.12 bloody lessons at circa €600, somebody in the driving instructors crowd slipped someone in the govt quite a few quid methinks.Someone will no doubt bring up learners driving alone, if we had enforced the rules we already had, we wouldn't need new ones:rolleyes:

Spot on. The Mob will guzzle the Koolaid in whatever flavour the Government doses it out to them.

If you pass a compentency exam then its clear that you are competent. Whether you've done one lesson or 101 is totally irrelevant. It's a racket that the driving instructors with their exorbitant rates were in on from the word go.

The next step is to simply ban people from getting on the road at all. Its usually the same people defending all this that never had to go through any of this themselves when they got their own license yet are 100% positively certain that they're perfectly qualified to drive on the roads. Their stock answer is always "road safety" but you might as well have programmed a parrot because all it is is noise.

Rant over

dr.fuzzenstein

Jesus. wrote: »

Spot on. The Mob will guzzle the Koolaid in whatever flavour the Government doses it out to them.

If you pass a compentency exam then its clear that you are competent. Whether you've done one lesson or 101 is totally irrelevant. It's a racket that the driving instructors with their exorbitant rates were in on from the word go.

The next step is to simply ban people from getting on the road at all. Its usually the same people defending all this that never had to go through any of this themselves when they got their own license yet are 100% positively certain that they're perfectly qualified to drive on the roads. Their stock answer is always "road safety" but you might as well have programmed a parrot because all it is is noise.

Rant over

I got my license in Germany, first there where theory lessons, (well first I think there where medicals and idiot test), we had to study the material and take mock tests. If you didn't pass the proper test, you ain't getting behind the wheel of anything, sunshine.
Then there was town driving, country driving, motorway driving, night driving, some essentials about the car, which hole what fluid goes and how to change a wheel.
We did a day of first aid and of course the test.
Lessons where conducted by a proper, qualified instructor (his name was Porsche, I kid you not) and tests where done by an independent tester.
Took ages, cost a fortune, but I think it's a good start and something solid to build on.
You get chaos when everyone learns quirks and bad habits from friends an family or by driving by themselves and making up their own rules in their head.
There is a price to be paid for civilization and it's called "doing things properly" :P

And I am in favour of retests to get all the doddery old farts off the road who can't see 5 meters in front of them and don't always know what day of the week it is or what year or think they are a turnip.

keithclancy

ffs .. drove in UK a few thousand KM in UK

Generalise all the cities .. FAIL.

landmarkjohn

Maybe I am getting older and slowing down a bit but I find morning rush hour UK style a very aggressive affair on fast roundabouts and dual carriageways. I would say less margin for error than Irish roads but maybe that's because in Ireland we expect and see more poor driving.

Hachiko

people drive at crazy speeds in England. I got a is250 which may not be a M5 but its no slouch and I have seen people in polos and other small cars absolutely bombing it on the motorways, often when its lashing. I just ignore them, life too short and all that. I have my cruise on 75/80mph and just let it at that.

Tail Docker

christy02 wrote: »

Why don't we care?

Because it is dull. If it wasn't for middle lane dawdlers and roundabout wanderers, there's be nothing to dodge.