Passat 2.0tdi 05 break after timing belt service.

damidani

Hi all.
I'm quite upset about my car, I'll try to share with you all, maybe you can give me some direction on how to proceed.
I have a passat tdi 05, which was serviced last week in a main vw dealer, they change the timing belt and water pump.
After take my car from the garage the car just cut out in the middle of the street, when I checked out, i saw the timing belt just flat... Yes a total disaster. I called vw assistance and they take the car to the garage, today i talked with the garage guys and they told me that when they change the timing belt they had to put some helicoil in the tensorbelt thread because of a previous timing belt change, the think is they said they fix it but the helicoil does not work.
Now the think, I told the garage guys that I'm expecting not to pay for the work due it was their fault, and they said that they can't guarantee that, and they do not know so far if there is any other damage in the car. They send the piece to engineering to investigate what was wrong.
I request for a replacement car for the time the work is in progress and they also said, in not a polite way that they have no car for replacement right now.
To be honest I'm quite upset about it, and i'm not sure how to proceed in this situation, the man from the service company who take ,y car to the garage recommend me to demand this garage, as they are official vw garage.

Any words, help will be really appreciated.

Best regards,
Damian.

Zane97

Best to take legal advise I think.

Tail Docker

They fcuked it, they fix it. Ask nicely, then get a solicitor to write a letter. If they helicoiled it without asking you first, their bad.

damidani

Yes, and after their fix it, when they told me about it, i ask, "is that secure, it will be a problem in the future, is that guaranteee?" And they answer, if we put it there is because we know it's going to work.

Thanks.
Damian.

derry

Small claims court can handle up to ~€2000 euro claims and you pay a fee of something like €6 .It might be cheaper than to go for solicitor .
Do you know who did the last timing belt before this was it them or a reputable VW dealer . The requirement for coil suggests some baboon broke the threads in this timing belt change but they might try to say it was from previous timing belt change who broke the threads .

Is welding in threaded stud a possible solution to fix this particular problem

Derry

Chimaera

Their repair failed, it's their fault. Regardless of what was done to the car previously, once they took on the job of repairing it, they took responsibility for their repair. Timing belt failure on a TDI will result in serious damage to the engine's internals. At the very least it'll need a reconditioned head, possibly pistons, conrods if you're really unlucky. This won't be a cheap repair.

You should instruct them to carry out no further work until you're confident that they will cover it. If that means waiting until you've sought legal advice so be it.

George Dalton

This is a known issue with the 2.0TDI. A VW dealer should be well aware of the possibility of this happening and shouldn't have proceeded with the job if they knew there was a potential issue with the helicoil etc.

Stallingrad

Main dealer you say, care to share which one?

biko

Stallingrad wrote: »

Main dealer you say, care to share which one?

Let's keep that under wraps in case this goes legal.
You can ask by PM

damidani

Hi All.
I've been talking with the garage for the last days, and looks like there are several damage in the motor, so far they told me that is not their fault because it was previously damage, and they said that the helicoil sometimes work and sometimes not(OMG), and I should cover the costs.

Then I talked with the Manager of that particular VW garage, we talked about the issue. So now I'm waiting for his call, we talked yesterday.

I'll wait for his answer and depending on that I will have to go for the legal way.
I been advice that there is Consumers’ Association of Ireland that can help with this kind of problem or at least give me some orientation on how to proceed.

I also know there is a Small claim curt, but it's only for claims up to €2000, and the fix will cost more than that as the garage told me.


Regards,
Damian.

damidani

derry wrote: »

Small claims court can handle up to ~€2000 euro claims and you pay a fee of something like €6 .It might be cheaper than to go for solicitor .
Do you know who did the last timing belt before this was it them or a reputable VW dealer . The requirement for coil suggests some baboon broke the threads in this timing belt change but they might try to say it was from previous timing belt change who broke the threads .

Is welding in threaded stud a possible solution to fix this particular problem

Derry

Hi, yes I'm aware of the small claims, but I'm afraid the cost worth more than €2000.
I do not know, I think it was in UK, due this is uk car.
I think someone on this garage broke the thread now.

Thanks
Damian.

damidani

Chimaera wrote: »

Their repair failed, it's their fault. Regardless of what was done to the car previously, once they took on the job of repairing it, they took responsibility for their repair. Timing belt failure on a TDI will result in serious damage to the engine's internals. At the very least it'll need a reconditioned head, possibly pistons, conrods if you're really unlucky. This won't be a cheap repair.

You should instruct them to carry out no further work until you're confident that they will cover it. If that means waiting until you've sought legal advice so be it.

Yes, that was what happened. pistons, valves, etc.

Damian.

Gazzmonkey

Seriously bad news OP, hope they pay up or replace like for like.

bcmf

I would get legal advice from here on in. If they are trying to wrangle out of it in any way you could be in for a long battle. A solicitors letter will speed that up immensely and let the dealer know you ain't taking any half arsed attitude from them.

damidani

Yes, you think Consumers’ Association of Ireland would work at least for advice? I;m not really familiar with the procedure here in Ireland due I'm pretty much new here(2 years).

Thanks
Damian.

cml387

As has been said before, they fixed it. It failed due to their negligence.
Unless they informed you beforehand about the misthread and the requirement for a rethread, it's not relevant.It's their problem.

I am afraid they are taking advantage of you because you are not local.
Can you get a friend who is Irish to go back to the garage with you to explain this.

Something similar happened to me after a belt change. I got a replacement car while they changed the engine. At no cost to me.

pbear007

Had a similar issue , garage in question washed their hands of it and their only offer was to charge me 200 euro to take head off engine and tell me how much the catastrophic engine repair bill would be ,having already paid near 600 for timing chain .
Ended up having to get new engine from main dealer . Solicitor told me not to even bother trying anything as they would just claim inability to pay .( If you check my other posts you can see where I'm from etc)(EDIT I'm in Leixlip and a more detailed post in KE board has been deleted by mods)
The TSi timing chain was a known issue so between the manufacturer/distributor ,main dealer and independent got rightly screwed.(4k euro bills on a 4 year old car with 55K km ...)

damidani

cml387 wrote: »

As has been said before, they fixed it. It failed due to their negligence.
Unless they informed you beforehand about the misthread and the requirement for a rethread, it's not relevant.It's their problem.

I am afraid they are taking advantage of you because you are not local.
Can you get a friend who is Irish to go back to the garage with you to explain this.

Something similar happened to me after a belt change. I got a replacement car while they changed the engine. At no cost to me.

Yes, but eventhough that who said I have to take responsability if their fix fail right unless they tell me that and make me sign something..

damidani

pbear007 wrote: »

Had a similar issue , garage in question washed their hands of it and their only offer was to charge me 200 euro to take head off engine and tell me how much the catastrophic engine repair bill would be ,having already paid near 600 for timing chain .
Ended up having to get new engine from main dealer . Solicitor told me not to even bother trying anything as they would just claim inability to pay .( If you check my other posts you can see where I'm from etc)(EDIT I'm in Leixlip and a more detailed post in KE board has been deleted by mods)
The TSi timing chain was a known issue so between the manufacturer/distributor ,main dealer and independent got rightly screwed.(4k euro bills on a 4 year old car with 55K km ...)

My passat worth like €5.5k.
I paid €1000 between timing belt, service, pre nct, and other things.
So if now I have to pay for the work I will be lousing pretty much the cost of the car....

Stella Virgo

damidani wrote: »

Yes, but eventhough that who said I have to take responsability if their fix fail right unless they tell me that and make me sign something..

do not sign,verbally agree to ANYTHING the garage says.NONE of this is your fault. get legal advice ,or you will end up being shafted bigtime.

gctest50

damidani wrote: »

Hi All.
I've been talking with the garage for the last days, and looks like there are several damage in the motor, so far they told me that is not their fault because it was previously damage, and they said that the helicoil sometimes work and sometimes not(OMG), and..............

they should have stopped when they saw the "previous damage"

if they can't judge whether or not a thread repair will work or not - they shouldn't use them ( or be near timing chains n things )



there's about 250,000 helicoils in a 747 & 200,000 in a space shuttle apparently

so they wouldn't want to go down that road i spose

http://www.emhart.eu

cerastes

derry wrote: »

Small claims court can handle up to ~€2000 euro claims and you pay a fee of something like €6 .It might be cheaper than to go for solicitor .
Do you know who did the last timing belt before this was it them or a reputable VW dealer . The requirement for coil suggests some baboon broke the threads in this timing belt change but they might try to say it was from previous timing belt change who broke the threads .

Is welding in threaded stud a possible solution to fix this particular problem

Derry

Who is to say the helicoil was even done previously, they could just be claiming this after fcuking it up themselves.
Id go the legal route, but its easy to say that, get advice off whatever consumer group you can.
Not providing the replacement car could be because it might look like they are admitting liablity, maybe they are advised not to do it?

At the least Id be expecting a replacement car for the duration
and to be honest, in my opinion, when something like this happens, unless its sorted well, or even if its repaired well, it may never be right?
Whats peoples opinions on that, Im sure the most you could hope for is a repair but whats the value of the car/what condition is it OP?
Maybe they can replace the car with something the same or similar and sell that off themselves?
Not a great deal if you had a clean car with low miles, but maybe ok if you had something with average or high miles and average or lower condition, not sure how they'd go for it, especially as they seem to be doing their best to shirk their responsibility.
How can they prove the helicoil was done before them now? as they will have had to remove and maybe drill and ream it out and then tap it? whats to say they didnt fcuk it up on replacing the bolt and had to repair it? how can they prove it? even if it was the case.

Was their a bill for a helicoil? did they mention it when you collected/paid? you have a receipt?
why is it only coming up now that there is a failure?
Why didnt they mention it before proceeding?
Sounds like they fcuked up to me.

professore

À helicoil is generally stronger than a normal thread if it's done properly.

Tiger72

I think this is just typical VW dealers - they stand over nothing , German Engineering my ass - their cars are no better no worse then any other car

cerastes

If they didnt mention the helicoil in the bill/receipt or anything about it before they proceeded with the work or anything after when the car was paid and collected, then it is like they hid it and hoped it wouldnt cause any problems, that suggests to me that they are the ones that fcuked it up and not some previous person or garage.

It seems to me if they didnt mention it in the bill or after when it was paid and it was not causing a problem before, then it is their work that has created the problem, OP I would persist, be polite but firm, but also make it clear you aren't letting it go, I wouldnt, cant see how anyone could afford to.
Is it in the bill/receipt? or did they mention it OP?

bryaner

The car was in better condition going in than it was when they repaired, straight down the legal route and do them for everything, I worked in the trade years ago and if it happened us we'd have to repair the said vehicle.

quadrifoglio verde

Op it might be worth contacting vw ireland

Pov06

damidani wrote: »

Hi, yes I'm aware of the small claims, but I'm afraid the cost worth more than €2000.
I do not know, I think it was in UK, due this is uk car.
I think someone on this garage broke the thread now.

Thanks
Damian.

It doesn't matter that this repair costs more than €2000. You will be going to the Small Claims Court over the original price you paid to change the timing belt and you will complain that they did the repair work incorrectly and broke the car. The aftermath repair cost does not matter.

damidani

cerastes wrote: »

If they didnt mention the helicoil in the bill/receipt or anything about it before they proceeded with the work or anything after when the car was paid and collected, then it is like they hid it and hoped it wouldnt cause any problems, that suggests to me that they are the ones that fcuked it up and not some previous person or garage.

It seems to me if they didnt mention it in the bill or after when it was paid and it was not causing a problem before, then it is their work that has created the problem, OP I would persist, be polite but firm, but also make it clear you aren't letting it go, I wouldnt, cant see how anyone could afford to.
Is it in the bill/receipt? or did they mention it OP?

Hi, yes it's in the bill. Something like : "note the tensionerbolt thread damage, fitted helicoli as needed".
And when i saw that , I asked, is that safe? Is going to cause problems in the furure? And the answer was: we wouldn't have done if we think it is unsafe.

Damian.

damidani

Pov06 wrote: »

It doesn't matter that this repair costs more than €2000. You will be going to the Small Claims Court over the original price you paid to change the timing belt and you will complain that they did the repair work incorrectly and broke the car. The aftermath repair cost does not matter.

Hi, I didn't know that, you right.
Thanks

Damian.

cerastes

damidani wrote: »

Hi, yes it's in the bill. Something like : "note the tensionerbolt thread damage, fitted helicoli as needed".
And when i saw that , I asked, is that safe? Is going to cause problems in the furure? And the answer was: we wouldn't have done if we think it is unsafe.

Damian.

Did they say at that time that it was due to a previous fault or just that they did it and its in the bill?
either way they didnt ask before proceeding from what I gather? or did they?
Not that it matters, if they couldnt do the job and guarantee it will last they shouldnt have done it.
Not mentioning any aspect of it just means they have obscured it,
Only saying afterwards they did it without authorisation, suggests its a standard thing to do.
As they will have drilled out the old helicoil? or repaired any claimed previous damage means they will have obscured any evidence of damage as they will have had to drill and tap it out and install the helicoil, I dont see how they could prove that their was prior damage, assuming there really was, or that they didnt damage it themselves somehow, not that it matters as if they cant fit a helicoil they shouldnt be charging/doing the job in the first place.

slimjimmc

Pov06 wrote: »

It doesn't matter that this repair costs more than €2000. You will be going to the Small Claims Court over the original price you paid to change the timing belt and you will complain that they did the repair work incorrectly and broke the car. The aftermath repair cost does not matter.

Are you sure about that? If he only claims for the cost of the belt change, e.g. €600, then surely that's the max the Court can award?
He would still be left with a busted engine and no compensation for that, no?

Esel

Would it be likely that fitting a helicoil might be delegated to an inexperienced apprentice?

cerastes

slimjimmc wrote: »

Are you sure about that? If he only claims for the cost of the belt change, e.g. €600, then surely that's the max the Court can award?
He would still be left with a busted engine and no compensation for that, no?

I was wondering that myself, wouldnt the max award be €2000?
Id have thought in this case a solicitor would be the better option if even to show intent,
Although Id be laying out what I intend to do to the garage, ie solicitor route, but Id contact VW head office in advance? talk to someone in a consumer association?
I might give them an out to replace the car outright with something of equal value or better, but they may not go for that, but thats because Id be wondering what kind of repair they or anyone could do at this stage and what damage has been done, therefore how likely is this car going to have an effective repair that will last?

slimjimmc

cerastes wrote: »

I was wondering that myself, wouldnt the max award be €2000?
Id have thought in this case a solicitor would be the better option if even to show intent,
Although Id be laying out what I intend to do to the garage, ie solicitor route, but Id contact VW head office in advance? talk to someone in a consumer association?
I might give them an out to replace the car outright with something of equal value or better, but they may not go for that, but thats because Id be wondering what kind of repair they or anyone could do at this stage and what damage has been done, therefore how likely is this car going to have an effective repair that will last?

The max claim for the SCC is €2000 but afaik if you only seek €600 you'll only get €600.
The OP needs to hire proper legal advice. The sums involved could easily rule out the small claims procedure.

damidani

Hello all,
is been a while, but I have some news.
After some weeks, and after talked with Consumer Agency, I was following their recommendation, talk with the garage manager(only once, he never get back to me), and then with Volkswagen directly, the thing is, the very same day after I talked with VW, the garage called me and told me they are going to take care of the full thing. So they are going to cover all the issue.
i have no clear what are the total issue, but I'll update when I have it.

Now I need to be sure that the car will be in the same state as it was, and it will not be an issue for the next owner if I decide to sell it.

Regards,
Damian.

tipptom

damidani wrote: »

Hello all,
is been a while, but I have some news.
After some weeks, and after talked with Consumer Agency, I was following their recommendation, talk with the garage manager(only once, he never get back to me), and then with Volkswagen directly, the thing is, the very same day after I talked with VW, the garage called me and told me they are going to take care of the full thing. So they are going to cover all the issue.
i have no clear what are the total issue, but I'll update when I have it.

Now I need to be sure that the car will be in the same state as it was, and it will not be an issue for the next owner if I decide to sell it.

Regards,
Damian.

Well done,obviously VW have more scruples than their dealers,now demand a top courtesy car no matter if you need it or not.

woody33

That's great news, well done.

dr.bollocko

That's good news. Shocked that wasn't their immediate response tbh.

bryaner

Up ya boy ya..

damidani

Hi all,
I just want to let you all know, that after a month I have my car back. But with a few things.
They said they put a new cam, and other stuffs.
Now the car smoke when you start it when is cold, also it take longer to start, like 4 times than normal. And today I have my check engine light on the dash back(it was there before the service), the error say something like "Emissions Garage" it supposed to be fixed but it's not.

To be honest I do not want to let this guys to touch my car again, they don't care about the car, and I'm not sure of the quality of their job.
I'll probably take my car to my local garage to get ride of this "emissions fault".

Regards,
Damian.

pred racer

damidani wrote: »

Hi all,
I just want to let you all know, that after a month I have my car back. But with a few things.
They said they put a new cam, and other stuffs.
Now the car smoke when you start it when is cold, also it take longer to start, like 4 times than normal. And today I have my check engine light on the dash back(it was there before the service), the error say something like "Emissions Garage" it supposed to be fixed but it's not.

To be honest I do not want to let this guys to touch my car again, they don't care about the car, and I'm not sure of the quality of their job.
I'll probably take my car to my local garage to get ride of this "emissions fault".

Regards,
Damian.

You have to bring it back, and keep bringing it back until you are happy, if you bring it to another garage, the main dealer will wash their hands of it.
You have come this far, don't stop now.

Tiger72

You have to take it back to them , too many VW dealers are like this , they stand over nothing .

Moneymaker

I don't blame you being fed up and pissed off with them but you have to keep at them.

The more I read this forum, the less I ever want to own a VW.

dr.bollocko

Moneymaker wrote: »

I don't blame you being fed up and pissed off with them but you have to keep at them.

The more I read this forum, the less I ever want to own a VW.

I just sold mine after 16 months of ownership during which I had to bring it back a total of 13 times. Never will buy anything from VW group again.

Keep at them OP. Stick it to the fcukers.

Anjobe

Moneymaker wrote: »

The more I read this forum, the less I ever want to own a VW.

I'm not defending VW over their handling of this in anyway, but you can't really think like this.

The forum will obviously give an unbalanced view as people don't tend to bother posting to say their car didn't break down today, or the dealer fixed some problem on their car with no issue.

dr.bollocko

Anjobe wrote: »

I'm not defending VW over their handling of this in anyway, but you can't really think like this.

The forum will obviously give an unbalanced view as people don't tend to bother posting to say their car didn't break down today, or the dealer fixed some problem on their car with no issue.

I suppose that would make for a pretty dull thread.

Anjobe

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I suppose that would make for a pretty dull thread.

Almost as dull as a Nissan Almera I'd wager, but at least it would make a change from the interminable diesel vs petrol arguments and lane hogging/undertaking rants.

Gazzmonkey

Tiger72 wrote: »

You have to take it back to them , too many VW dealers are like this , they stand over nothing .

I find that they do....... if you've got the money :pac:

damidani

Hi,
I called these guys today... I explain the car is having issue like , hard to start. They want to me to leave the car the next Monday.. so one week more with the car.
I don't understand how this oficial dealers does not take priority for the work they have done.. to be honest I'm really considering to take my car to a different garage.


Let see how it goes.
Thanks
Damian.

Moneymaker

You have to stick with it, as frustrating as it must be.

Would suggest you contact VW Ireland directly and explain the situation.