Non payment of fine

wtf!!!

So just had a guard knocking on my door for a warrant of my arrest in september last year i received a fine for an expired parking permit and out of date tax disc (tax was out 12days) from a traffic warden outside the property i was renting at the time.

So to make a long story short we moved from there in october and i transferred the car over to my new address etc..heard nothing about the fine id have paid them if id known never received a summons or a fine in the post id have turned up to court if id received a summons...now im facing a prison sentence none of this is my fault thefine totals over 800e clearly the judge got pissed off as i never turned up.now the guard tells me ive gotta go to jail for non payment as i cant afford that much as im currently on maternity leave she tells me ill only be in prison for half an hour and has arranged for a time and day for next week anyway i can appeal this decision im actually dreading this and with a 3month old and post natal depression i think this is gunna add to it

any advice welcome thanks

Arbiter of Good Taste

Your post is unclear. In your first sentence you said you received a fine in September. Then you go on to say that you "never received a summons or a fine in the post". Which is it?

Colser

Would you chance asking them if they would accept weekly installments due to your circumstances?

wtf!!!

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

Your post is unclear. In your first sentence you said you received a fine in September. Then you go on to say that you "never received a summons or a fine in the post". Which is it?

sorry that was meant i was parked outside the property last september was the date i received no ticket on the car or nothing fines are normally isnt in the post than but i had proberl moved out at that stage as i was gone by october 1st

wtf!!!

Colser wrote: »

Would you chance asking them if they would accept weekly installments due to your circumstances?

ive asked guard said no was too late

Colser

wtf!!! wrote: »

ive asked guard said no was too late

Go into the station and speak to someone more senior...Im sure if you can prove you changed address ect that they will come to some arrangement..

wtf!!!

Colser wrote: »

Go into the station and speak to someone more senior...Im sure if you can prove you changed address ect that they will come to some arrangement..

she told me ah sure if twas a guard theyd arrange payment but its the council and theyre basically pricks

for sake of half an hour and for 800e she told me go in and i wouldnt have a record

Losty Dublin

wtf!!! wrote: »

sorry that was meant i was parked outside the property last september was the date i received no ticket on the car or nothing fines are normally isnt in the post than but i had proberl moved out at that stage as i was gone by october 1st

Some of the legal pro's may be able to clarify the procedures when a summons is issued but when the party in question has moved on and resides at a new address.

Páid

Get a solicitor. If it went to court I would be surprised if the judge didn't ask why you weren't there and if you could be contacted. You updated your address so that it was current - why didn't they contact you there before now?

When did you tax the vehicle?

Really, get a solicitor. It will be a lot cheaper than €800.

wtf!!!

Páid wrote: »

Get a solicitor. If it went to court I would be surprised if the judge didn't ask why you weren't there and if you could be contacted. You updated your address so that it was current - why didn't they contact you there before now?

When did you tax the vehicle?

Really, get a solicitor. It will be a lot cheaper than €800.

taxed it in october was out if work wasnt driving broke my ankle ive ang solicitors but it been a friday they all seem to be in court or in courses

Victor

wtf!!! wrote: »

taxed it in october was out if work wasnt driving broke my ankle ive ang solicitors but it been a friday they all seem to be in court or in courses

Phone again and tell them you are at risk of prison and you need to do something urgently. Most larger firms will have an out-of-hours phone number.

FreudianSlippers

Something seems odd. What council is it?

Pat Mustard

wtf!!! wrote: »

taxed it in october was out if work wasnt driving broke my ankle ive ang solicitors but it been a friday they all seem to be in court or in courses

Your posts are hard to read, without any punctuation.

Having read your OP, I would hazard a guess that hiring a solicitor for an appeal should cost less than your existing fine.

Get a solicitor.

wtf!!!

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Something seems odd. What council is it?

limerick ive been onto my old landlord his said that the residents that moved in after us where opening our mail and maybe they had signed for the summons and opened it

wtf!!!

The Mustard wrote: »

Your posts are hard to read, without any punctuation.

Having read your OP, I would hazard a guess that hiring a solicitor for an appeal should cost less than your existing fine.

Get a solicitor.

ya sorry about that, ive tried editing it but it wont let me have a solicitor appointment on monday thanks

FreudianSlippers

wtf!!! wrote: »

ya sorry about that, ive tried editing it but it wont let me have a solicitor appointment on monday thanks

Have you tried just putting proper punctuation into your posts in the first place? This one particularly takes a few reads to understand.

FreudianSlippers

wtf!!! wrote: »

limerick ive been onto my old landlord his said that the residents that moved in after us where opening our mail and maybe they had signed for the summons and opened it

I highly suggest you see a solicitor Monday as you say. The council cannot send you to jail on a whim, so you missed more than just a summons.

Claw Hammer

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I highly suggest you see a solicitor Monday as you say. The council cannot send you to jail on a whim, so you missed more than just a summons.

What has clearly happened is that the o/p was convicted in her absence and fined with a number of days in lieu if the fine is not paid on time. Pretty standard. Nothing to do with the council. The fine wasn't paid due to the o/p not knowing about it and now she has to either pay up or serve the time in lieu.
There is a set asie procedure whereby the convicted person can have the conviction set aside because they didn't know about the summons.This requires a court application. The court may set aside the conviction and then re-convict with another fine plus time in lieu.
It may not be worth the expense of paying a solicitor to get a lower fine. There is most unlikely to be legal aid for such an offence.

Pat Mustard

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There is a set asie procedure whereby the convicted person can have the conviction set aside because they didn't know about the summons.This requires a court application. The court may set aside the conviction and then re-convict with another fine plus time in lieu.
It may not be worth the expense of paying a solicitor to get a lower fine. There is most unlikely to be legal aid for such an offence.

This is correct.

However, I have come across situations where District Judges have been reluctant to set matters aside, even in circumstances where it had been argued that summonses had not been served. However, in those circumstances, DJs had still been willing to fix recognizances and extend time for leave to appeal.

Obviously, there is little point in appealing if the legal costs plus new fine will amount to more than the €800.

For instance, if the solicitor will do the work for €400 and if the new fine might come to €300, that's still a saving of €100, and if extension of time for leave to appeal is granted, matters will be deferred to the next State Appeals sessions upon lodgement of appeal papers, meaning that the payment of a fine could be kicked down the road.

A payment deferred is money saved, as some accountants like to say.

I think that it's still worth a chat with a solicitor who carries out this type of work.

wtf!!!

The Mustard wrote: »

This is correct.

However, I have come across situations where District Judges have been reluctant to set matters aside, even in circumstances where it had been argued that summonses had not been served. However, in those circumstances, DJs had still been willing to fix recognizances and extend time for leave to appeal.

Obviously, there is little point in appealing if the legal costs plus new fine will amount to more than the €800.

For instance, if the solicitor will do the work for €400 and if the new fine might come to €300, that's still a saving of €100, and if extension of time for leave to appeal is granted, matters will be deferred to the next State Appeals sessions upon lodgement of appeal papers, meaning that the payment of a fine could be kicked down the road.

A payment deferred is money saved, as some accountants like to say.

I think that it's still worth a chat with a solicitor who carries out this type of work.

Ive lodged an appeal in my local District Court so up on Thursday in front of the judge heres hoping he'll see i didnt avoid court or not paying the fine so than i can get a normal court date and have a chance to plead my case in front of the judge. got proper details today one fine was 250e court fees and the other was 325e on top of the fines so least i know what really happened

ZeroImpurities

The Mustard wrote: »

This is correct.

However, I have come across situations where District Judges have been reluctant to set matters aside, even in circumstances where it had been argued that summonses had not been served. However, in those circumstances, DJs had still been willing to fix recognizances and extend time for leave to appeal.

Obviously, there is little point in appealing if the legal costs plus new fine will amount to more than the €800.

For instance, if the solicitor will do the work for €400 and if the new fine might come to €300, that's still a saving of €100, and if extension of time for leave to appeal is granted, matters will be deferred to the next State Appeals sessions upon lodgement of appeal papers, meaning that the payment of a fine could be kicked down the road.

A payment deferred is money saved, as some accountants like to say.

I think that it's still worth a chat with a solicitor who carries out this type of work.

A solicitor charging 400 for this, will be taking the piddle.

Pat Mustard

Come again?

ZeroImpurities

The Mustard wrote: »

Come again?

DC appearance gets 120 I think? Legal Aid?

Don't take the piss by charging 400 for a DC appearance.

Pat Mustard

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

DC appearance gets 120 I think? Legal Aid?

Don't take the piss by charging 400 for a DC appearance.

I'm not taking anything, thank you very much.

It's only a DC appearance if it's a set-aside application. Considering the lapse of time, as I already outlined, certain DJs refuse these applications, requiring an appeal to the Circuit Court.

If you think an appeal to the Circuit for €400 is taking the piss, then you are mistaken.

And legal aid isn't going to be available for a parking offence.

ZeroImpurities

why on earth would it be an appeal to the CC?

wtf!!!

well if he refueses the appeal i guess ill just do the jail time for the hour or two and they'll get no money whereas if appeal is granted they'll get something im been punished because the City Council never traced to the right address

ZeroImpurities

The criterium for receipt of LA is if your liberty is at stake.
If he/she/the OP is facing a custodial sentence, then their liberty is at stake.
In reality, they need to rock up to the DC on the date and explain the circumstances.
A DECENT solicitor, who will be in court on the date anyway, would kindly stand in for a small fee.

Pat Mustard

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

The criterium for receipt of LA is if your liberty is at stake.

You are confusing being jailed for non payment of a fine with being jailed for an offence.

I've never seen someone being jailed for a parking offence.

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

If he/she/the OP is facing a custodial sentence, then their liberty is at stake.

A parking fine is not a custodial sentence.

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

In reality, they need to rock up to the DC on the date and explain the circumstances.

But that didn't happen, because the guy didn't get the summons.

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

A DECENT solicitor, who will be in court on the date anyway, would kindly stand in for a small fee.

As the OP has mentioned, the court date has already been and gone.

ZeroImpurities

The Mustard wrote: »

You are confusing being jailed for non payment of a fine with being jailed for an offence.

I've never seen someone being jailed for a parking offence.


A parking fine is not a custodial sentence.


But that didn't happen, because the guy didn't get the summons.


As the OP has mentioned, the court date has already been and gone.

You're very confused.

Pat Mustard

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

You're very confused.

No.

ZeroImpurities

You're saying they should appeal to the circuit court.
They have not been convicted in the district court.
You're saying 400?
A DC appearance is 120.
You still confused?
Or do you want me to endeavour to use the multi-quote function? Cos I can! Please don't make me.......

Pat Mustard

ZeroImpurities wrote: »

They have not been convicted in the district court.

Where do you suppose that the €800 fine came from so?

ZeroImpurities

The Mustard wrote: »

Where do you suppose that the €800 fine came from so?

You can not be convicted in your absence. You can't. You can be fined. You can have a bench warrant put out. But you can not be convicted by the mere fact of non-appearance.

Pat Mustard

Rubbish.

ZeroImpurities

Lol.

Show me evidence.

Pat Mustard

Support your own argument. NipNip.

ZeroImpurities

I have. Now it's your go.

ZeroImpurities

OP - go to court - explain your circumstances. Ideally, go to court, find a fella in a suit outside (a solicitor) and ask him will he stand in for you. Give him 50 quid. DO NOT pay some dude 400 for advice.

ZeroImpurities

Basically, you're not in a position where advice is going to have any effect.