Law on Photographing Children

SATSUMA

Hi all,

Can anyone advise where to find any legislation (Irish) relating to the photographing of children in public places?

I can't seem to find anything....

Thanks

Paulw

There is none. Photographing children in public is no different to photographing adults in public.

I think either Cork or Kerry Co Co have forbidden photography in some public playgrounds, but again, doesn't make a distinction between photographing adults or children.

SATSUMA

Thanks for reply,


What about publishing photos in general/ or making them public? Do you know where i could read about this?

Paulw

SATSUMA wrote: »

What about publishing photos in general/ or making them public? Do you know where i could read about this?

The only possible thing there would be covered under the Data Protection Act. But, again, I'm not sure there is much difference between adult and child.

FreudianSlippers

SATSUMA wrote: »

Thanks for reply,


What about publishing photos in general/ or making them public? Do you know where i could read about this?

As long as it isn't pornographic, there is nothing wrong with it. Some social media sites will allow parents to request removal of photographs of their children AFAIK.

SATSUMA

Thanks PaulW (and FreudianSlipper),

I found this:

The legal context
Other than the provisions contained in the Child Trafficking and Pornography Acts
1998/2004, which contain specific provisions on the exploitation of children, there is no
specific legal constraint on taking photographs or recording visual material with children
and young people. Photographs and visual images are regarded as personal data under
the Data Protection Acts 1998/2003. Personal data is defined as data relating to a living
individual who can be identified from the data or from the data in conjunction with
other information in the possession of the data controller. It must be obtained fairly,
accurate, kept up to date and should be kept and used only for one or more specified
lawful purposes.

Pretty much backs up what you are saying,

Thanks

FreudianSlippers

I just checked Facebook there as an example. If your child is under 13, you can request that they remove the image.

Paulownia

In France once I was taken to task by a bystander, when I was attempting to photograph a fountain, because there were children playing in the foreground. Political correctness gone mad I'd say. none of the children were hers either.

Paulw

Well, in France, the personal privacy laws are very strict. Probably the strictest (sp?) in the western world.

Privacy laws differ a good bit from country to country, and impact on photography and use of images.

seamus

Publishing photos taken in a public place is generally not an issue, whether adults or children. It's considered common courtesy to confirm permission from those in the photo (and it's an arse covering exercise), but overall it's not disallowed.

There are certain circumstances where a photo taken in public and published, could be considered a breach of privacy because the subject(s) of the photo had a reasonable expectation of privacy at the time (e.g. entering a doctor's office).

General rule is that photos taken in private cannot be made public without the express permission of the subjects. Photos taken in public are already public. Publishing them doesn't make them "more public", therefore permission is not required.

Of course, facebook has made this whole thing very grey with people taking all sorts of photos at events and putting photos of other peoples' kids up on facebook .

Paulownia

Difficult to take a photograph in a city where there are no children though, bit of a bore

SATSUMA

Seamus,

So, any one can post pictures of kids online? It's dependant on the sites policy? I see a poster has advised Facebook policy but what about generally?

Can anybody point me towards the legislation or a reliable source?

seamus

I don't know if there would be any specific legislation on this, it may be covered under common law. But there would be snippets of hundreds of areas that could apply to any published image - as others have mentioned above, data protection, copyright, pornography, privacy, etc etc etc.

At its simplest, yes, anyone can post a picture of anything taken in public without seeking permission first. Sites tend to honour takedown requests because it's better to be safe than sorry. That is, it's easier to just take a photo down than go to court to defend your reason for leaving it up.

For a reliable source, maybe have a look at the photography forum here on boards. I'm sure this question comes up a lot, and if anyone were to have experience with being challenged over publishing photos, it'll be those guys.

hullaballoo

SATSUMA, you've already been told numerous times that there is no legislation other than the Child Trafficking and Pornography Acts that deals with this here.

There are other concerns that apply generally to the publication of photographs of anyone. There is also common courtesy to consider.

It is generally frowned upon to photograph children without permission from parents/guardians.

Gatling

Maybe be the op can give a little more details as to issue they may have

FreudianSlippers

Gatling wrote: »

Maybe be the op can give a little more details as to issue they may have

TBH, I don't see a point. We have already outlined the general law in the area. Anything more specific will either be met with (i) there's nothing you can do, (ii) try contacting the person/website or (iii) speak to a solicitor.

SATSUMA

hullaballoo wrote: »

SATSUMA, you've already been told numerous times that there is no legislation other than the Child Trafficking and Pornography Acts that deals with this here.

I havent been told "numerous times" and as it's a legal disscussion forum i was trying to encourage discussion from reliable sources so there is backup to the answer given but if none exists so be it.

Thanks for the helpful replies

satguy

While generally there is no law, no real written law that says " Do not take pictures of kids" ("others peoples kids")

The police do and will, take a very dim view of anybody seen to be hanging around kids with a camera in their hands. "And rightly so" , in my view... The world has changed since I was a child and went to school in the 60s and early 70s.

In my day you had to run the gauntlet of the odd aqualung or two, as you got off at school time.
AQUALUNG,, maybe it's best not to give them 13 megapixel cameras...

234

The thing that you should understand is that there will be no piece of legislation positively setting out when it is permissible to take photos of children. Once something is not expressly forbidden it is legal.

So as you have been told, from a criminal point of view, unless there is some pornographic aspect, photographs of children in public places can be freely published.

hullaballoo

SATSUMA wrote: »

I havent been told "numerous times" and as it's a legal disscussion forum i was trying to encourage discussion from reliable sources so there is backup to the answer given but if none exists so be it.

Thanks for the helpful replies

Ah, I'm not arguing that with you. My reading of the thread was that just about all the information we can give you is already provided. I didn't mean for you to take it personally.

It occurs to me that one thing that hasn't been opened in this thread is the possibility of the application of the Defamation Act. Again, it's not specifically related to children but it does cover the publication of photographs, especially those that are edited and or captioned.

It may be a good option for you to ask about this in the photography forum. There are a lot of experienced professional photographers there who will have plenty of dos and don'ts wrt photographing people (incl. children) in public.

Paulw

satguy wrote: »

While generally there is no law, no real written law that says " Do not take pictures of kids" ("others peoples kids")

The police do and will, take a very dim view of anybody seen to be hanging around kids with a camera in their hands. "And rightly so" , in my view...

In all my years of photography, including a lot of taking photos of children, I have never once had the Gardai do anything about it. In fact, I know that the Gardai usually tell people that there is no law forbidding the taking of photos in a public area.

The Gardai have no law/power to stop you taking photos of children, other than public order, requesting you to leave the area, but again, they have no reason to do that. Once you are not being a creep or acting weirdly, the Gardai will not get involved.

Carawaystick

hullaballoo wrote: »

Ah, I'm not arguing that with you. My reading of the thread was that just about all the information we can give you is already provided. I didn't mean for you to take it personally.

It occurs to me that one thing that hasn't been opened in this thread is the possibility of the application of the Defamation Act. Again, it's not specifically related to children but it does cover the publication of photographs, especially those that are edited and or captioned.

It may be a good option for you to ask about this in the photography forum. There are a lot of experienced professional photographers there who will have plenty of dos and don'ts wrt photographing people (incl. children) in public.

Isn't there a copyright issue photographing the public performance of a person?

FreudianSlippers

Carawaystick wrote: »

Isn't there a copyright issue photographing the public performance of a person?

Not public. It really only legitimately arises where the performance is private - say you buy tickets to an open-air concert, then there is a potential claim to protection of the work as copyright.

Carawaystick

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Not public. It really only legitimately arises where the performance is private - say you buy tickets to an open-air concert, then there is a potential claim to protection of the work as copyright.

Really?
If A sings a song written by B in public, with such skill and acclaim, it becomes a worldwide sensation, there is nothing B can do about it?

If there is, if A sings a song A wrote... apart from any implied license is it different?

Peregrinus

Carawaystick wrote: »

Really?
If A sings a song written by B in public, with such skill and acclaim, it becomes a worldwide sensation, there is nothing B can do about it?

If there is, if A sings a song A wrote... apart from any implied license is it different?

You're confusing two separate issues. Yes, if B wants to perform A's song in a public place, he needs a licence from A and can be sued or restrained if he doesn't have one.

But if C wants to photograph B performing in a public place, he can. He doesn not need B's permission. And, if the song B is singing is A's song, whether B has a licence or not C still does not need permission to photograph the peformance.

All this assumes that B is performing in a truly public place - e.g. busking in the street. But if B is performing in a private space - a concert hall, say - then, even if the public have access, the owners of the concert hall can, as a condition of access, prohibit the taking of photographs.