9 yr old corrects grandmother....

LegacyUser

Hi folks,

My little nephew has a habit of correcting my mother in relation to the way she speaks.
He is a lovely little kid and they have a wonderful relationship. He is smart for his age, not to mention a little smart arse to boot.

He'll correct her grammar (tenses, plurals) etc
He corrects her pronunciations which can be a bit wayward ....(Personally, I get enjoyment of of these)
We never took any notice growing up, I've never corrected her. She is someone full of old stories, poems, rhymes, sayings and songs- an all round perfect grandmother!
Anyway, she had always been concious about this and cites her lack of education as the reason why.

I think this touches a nerve though she just puts up with it because technically he is correct as regards grammar and so on.

What I'm looking for are some appropriate one-liners I can equip her with (so not to hurt him either)......or any suggestions would be great,
thanks

W

njs030

I think it's more up to his parents to stop him, if you feel that strongly about it maybe point it out to your sibling (his parent) and let them know your mother is hurt.

Though really she should say it to him herself, instead of trying to save his feelings he should be told straight out to behave and that she won't accept it!

Snake

Tell him to stop and it's disrespectful. You don't need to equip her with smart arse remarks.

openup

I think someone should just sit down and explain it to him. I don't think there is anything your mother could say without hurting his feelings. Just tell him that, while it's great that he knows how to speak so well some people, like granny, weren't as lucky as he was and didn't learn everything they should have/go to school/be as clever as he is/get read to by their parents etc. And that sometimes people can have their feelings hurt when they are reminded of this because it makes them feel bad or stupid. I'd think he's old enough to understand that. If he's not being mean on purpose he should get the message.

Chattastrophe!

I think a nine year old should definitely be old enough to understand why this isn't the right thing to do, if you just discreetly have a little chat about it.

Give him an example of if he were in school, and someone in a much younger class started correcting him in front of everyone, how would this make him feel?

Explain to him about how lucky he is to have the education that he has, and explain to him the differences in the education system back then and now.

He is old enough to grasp all of this, and understand how she might be hurt, although it's most likely never occurred to him before. He probably thinks he's being clever and helpful when he does it. So make it clear that he's done nothing wrong, but that his granny is perfectly happy doing and saying things the way she does - but that it's wonderful that he has such great vocabulary etc, emphasise the importance of a good education. But do have a talk about how personal comments like this can embarrass others.

I honestly doubt he means any harm by it, but he is at the stage (and past it) where he needs to learn what comments are and aren't appropriate. And kids do need help sometimes in figuring this out. I've always found that making up an equivalent situation - "How would you feel if ..." and having a chat about it, helps a lot - the child needs to identify with how the other person is feeling.

Chattastrophe!

Oh and by the way, I really don't like the idea of feeding smart one-liners to her, to defend herself! He may be, as you see it, a smart arse ... but he's only nine. He may be lacking in self-confidence, and English is one thing he knows he's good at, so he does his best to show it off when he can - he's probably absolutely clueless that he might be hurting her, this could well be his way of trying to impress her!

Rubberchikken

Have a word with his parent.
At 9 he's old enough to be taught that no one really likes that kind of behaviour.
It could also end up with him doing to others, maybe in school, and thats definitely not the way to go.

Peintre Celebre

''Shut up and don't be so smart'' should work perfectly fine

Dellnum

I would say that your mother couldn't care less what the child says, she loves him and probably likes the idea that he knows the correct way to pronounce things and is most probably amused by the whole thing. She is old enough now not to take offence by what a child says. I feel that you are the one who is cringing about all of this, not your mother, so maybe just relax about it. It is nice of you to be concerned but I don't think you need to be. It would be different if an adult was saying this to your mother. Your mother also has enough experience to be able to deal with this herself and saying nothing is her way of doing it. She would be well capable of telling this young lad where to go if she was annoyed with him, but obviously she is not.

freshpopcorn

Does your mother actually have an issue with this or are you making something of nothing!

CaraMay

Tell him not to be such a cheeky upstart. If he is all that clever he will understand what you mean. A 9 year old should not be allowed make his grandmother feel humiliated.

The adults in the vicinity are to blame and that cheekiness should have been nipped in the bud on day 1.

Maybe he's just learned that stuff, is proud of himself, and doesn't pick up on the social cues. I think it would be more appropriate to take him aside and have a word about how he might be right but it's not nice to do it all the time

Peintre Celebre

CaraMay wrote: »

Tell him not to be such a cheeky upstart. If he is all that clever he will understand what you mean. A 9 year old should not be allowed make his grandmother feel humiliated.

The adults in the vicinity are to blame and that cheekiness should have been nipped in the bud on day 1.

If I said it once I would have been told not to say it again in no uncertain terms and I wouldn't have. None of this talking to him like he's a baby he's old enough at nine to know when not to be cheeky

Big Bag of Chips

If he is really that clever then this is the perfect time to teach him about colloquialisms.

.... And manners!

Eeden

In my opinion, "word rage" is not a good character trait.

Grammar Nazis and people who feel disgusted at the way other people speak are mostly xenophobic, in my view. Many people who pedantically correct other people's grammar are just showing off that they have a "superior education" or understanding. (I used to be like that myself, until I realised that there are different registers of speech/grammar, and that people can be very articulate without necessarily being "correct").

Just as you wouldn't expect someone to hang out on a beach in a tuxedo, there is no reason to expect formal speech unless you are in a formal situation.

Sorry, I'm not trying to label your nephew. Kids obviously when they learn something are definitely eager to show it off.

Maybe you (or someone) should try to explain that it's a little bit insensitive.

macplato

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

If I said it once I would have been told not to say it again in no uncertain terms and I wouldn't have. None of this talking to him like he's a baby he's old enough at nine to know when not to be cheeky

He is old enough to understand it, when someone points it out to him. But no one is old enough to know, without being told (or more specifically - taught) what is, and what isn't socially acceptable.

OP, your nephew is a bit tactless, because he doesn't know any better. I think the best thing would be for your mother to sit down with him, and gently explain to him how it makes her feel when he corrects her (Chattastrophe! put it in words beautifully, so i won't repeat the essence of what needs to be communicated to the boy).

The next best thing would be for either you or the child's parents to explain all this to him, but if it comes from your mother, and she is able to communicate it in an honest, and loving way, this would be hugely beneficial to his emotional development, because he will learn that direct confrontation can feel safe, loving and respectful (something that's quite rare in Ireland).

Does your mother have any issue with this?
I'm just asking because we feel protective of our parents, If someone says something against them, automatically our backs are up. But he is only a nine year old child, he doesn't understand that what he is saying might be socially unacceptable. He knows he is right, so he says it.

When I was a child, my granny would read me stories, but she liked to go away from the book and tell her own story, I would give out to her and anyone that listened that she couldn't read/ didn't know what she was doing!
But I was I only a child, she didn't take any offence, I loved her, she loved me, she died when I was a teenager and I don't believe anyone had anything bad to say about when I corrected her when she was reading stories to me!

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Nobody likes a smartarse child, especially one with no manners. It'll be good for him to understand that everyone is different and while he's right the way he speaks, it's not very nice to make others feel bad. The child won't learn unless he's told. Obviously he's not doing it to be hurtful or mean but if that trait develops, it's not always going to be "cute"

diveout

While he may be a smart ass, do you not think this is an opportunity for her to learn how to speak better?

Obviously it needs improvement and it's not hard to learn.

diveout

Eeden wrote: »

In my opinion, "word rage" is not a good character trait.

Grammar Nazis and people who feel disgusted at the way other people speak are mostly xenophobic, in my view. Many people who pedantically correct other people's grammar are just showing off that they have a "superior education" or understanding. (I used to be like that myself, until I realised that there are different registers of speech/grammar, and that people can be very articulate without necessarily being "correct").

Just as you wouldn't expect someone to hang out on a beach in a tuxedo, there is no reason to expect formal speech unless you are in a formal situation.

Sorry, I'm not trying to label your nephew. Kids obviously when they learn something are definitely eager to show it off.

Maybe you (or someone) should try to explain that it's a little bit insensitive.

Yes I can see what you are saying, but it can also be very jarring to listen to. I have a friend who says "does be" and it drives me crazy.... I just stop hearing what she is saying because the grammar is so bad.

And it doesn't take a superior education to do this.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

diveout wrote: »

While he may be a smart ass, do you not think this is an opportunity for her to learn how to speak better?

Obviously it needs improvement and it's not hard to learn.

Who says she needs to learn? It isn't a child's place to teach his grandmother anyway

R.D. aka MR.D

When I was little my babysitters kids (both older than me) were in speech therapy and apparently I used to wander around the house correcting everything that they said because I had heard it at the speech therapists (i would sit playing in the corner while they were with her).

Well, my mum came to collect me one day and was totally mortified that I was doing such a thing.

I was a kid, I didn't know why it was 'wrong' to do it.

There was actually a discussion about it. My babysitter thought it was fine because she viewed it as me helping them to speak better but my mum thought it was terrible. So my mum explained why she thought it was bad and my babysitter explained that she didn't mind.
I learned that I shouldn't do it to everyone but it was okay if I was allowed.

My point is that the kid has no way of inherently knowing that this is a social no no. Especially, if his parents/teachers are constantly correcting his speech.

simonsays1

Thanks for all the posts....
In response to whether it's just me or whether mam said this to me-

Yeah, she told me it goes on weekly and that it embarrasses her.

I didn't mean I was looking for smart arse one liners in response to the child just appropriate ones-
just to clear some misunderstandings by some some people here.
Anyway, it's not something I want to put up with tbh as I feel it's disrespectful.....

I'll chew on it...thanks

LynnGrace

Just wondering if his parents are aware that it goes on. It's really up to them to tell him that it isn't a nice thing to do, it's disrespectful to say the least.
He is old enough to understand, so I'd suggest either your mother say to him gently, that it isn't a nice thing to do, or you could take him aside the next time you witness it. He genuinely might not realise that it is rude, so I wouldn't be hard on him, but maybe use examples, as suggested upthread.

December2012

simonsays1 wrote: »

Thanks for all the posts....
In response to whether it's just me or whether mam said this to me-

Yeah, she told me it goes on weekly and that it embarrasses her.

I didn't mean I was looking for smart arse one liners in response to the child just appropriate ones-
just to clear some misunderstandings by some some people here.
Anyway, it's not something I want to put up with tbh as I feel it's disrespectful.....

I'll chew on it...thanks

Tread carefully. My mother would sometimes say that her granddaughter has said something that shows her (my mother) up. But what my mother means is that she is sharing a joke with me (an adult) about something that happened to her (having a grandchild correct her sentence or word) and how she thinks it is funny / admirable and she is surprised pleasantly at her granddaughters vocabulary and syntax.

Does your mother want to make an issue out of it?

A lot of kids do this - to their parents / aunts / uncles / grandparents. Its a way that, as children, we show off. We have learned how to phrase a question that day in school, and we are trying to assert ourselves, build our confidence and so we "correct" others when they do wrong.

I think you are blowing this out of proportion.

However, if you are not, and you have a genuine concern, and your mother has a genuine problem that she has asked you to get involved with, you could take this opportunity to point out that to your nephew that correcting a person all the time could embarrass that person, and that is not a good trait for him to have.

No one liners, he's 9!

qdawg86

Snake wrote: »

Tell him to stop and it's disrespectful. You don't need to equip her with smart arse remarks.

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

Oh and by the way, I really don't like the idea of feeding smart one-liners to her, to defend herself! He may be, as you see it, a smart arse ... but he's only nine. He may be lacking in self-confidence, and English is one thing he knows he's good at, so he does his best to show it off when he can - he's probably absolutely clueless that he might be hurting her, this could well be his way of trying to impress her!

Where are you both getting this 'smart' one liner business from ?

The OP said appropriate one liners......I would read that as a couple of responses that the grandmother can use to deflect the child's comments without hurting his feelings.

I would just say it to the kid myself. My nephew is often very cheeky to my parents and I correct him immediately each time.....whether his parents are there or not.

diveout

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Who says she needs to learn? It isn't a child's place to teach his grandmother anyway

Everyone needs to learn. My little one often corrects me on scientific facts, and I thank him and tell him how much I learn from him. I think it's great.

Taltos

diveout wrote: »

Everyone needs to learn. My little one often corrects me on scientific facts, and I thank him and tell him how much I learn from him. I think it's great.

And that's great for you.
But you have to realise that not everyone is as open to criticism. For someone whose self esteem or self-confidence may be low, or someone who berates themselves over their perceived intelligence or lack of education, being constantly corrected by a smart alicky little kid might only result in them further buying into the belief that they are stupid...

Personally the kid needs to be taught that skill many miss about engaging your mouth before you talk and thinking through the consequences of trying to show off (if even in a helpful way).

Whispered

diveout wrote: »

Yes I can see what you are saying, but it can also be very jarring to listen to. I have a friend who says "does be" and it drives me crazy.... I just stop hearing what she is saying because the grammar is so bad.

And it doesn't take a superior education to do this.

True, in some cases it's pure laziness. Especially when you know it's not how they used to speak. The day your mother asks "hows you" you'll understand how jarring it can be

freshpopcorn

Perhaps your mam could get some elocution lessons and a start correcting the kid.
If the kid is in school and he is corrected when he says something wrong he might feel the need to do it when he notices other people saying something wrong.

diveout

Taltos wrote: »

And that's great for you.
But you have to realise that not everyone is as open to criticism. For someone whose self esteem or self-confidence may be low, or someone who berates themselves over their perceived intelligence or lack of education, being constantly corrected by a smart alicky little kid might only result in them further buying into the belief that they are stupid...

Personally the kid needs to be taught that skill many miss about engaging your mouth before you talk and thinking through the consequences of trying to show off (if even in a helpful way).

Look kids get corrected all day, every day. It's a normal part of their life.

If you turn around and say "Oh but it hurts my feelings," well then don't be shocked when you correct them, and they say "Oh it hurts my feelings and I don't like it. Please stop."

LegacyUser

Look, if it is bothering your mother, who I am assuming is an adult, why don't you let her handle it?

Tell her to speak to the child's parent. They will deal with it. By whinging to you, she is just going to get you to be the villain. I am not a parent, but to be honest, if my sibling got stuck in my child because my mother was complaining behind my back, I would be so annoyed. If she came to me directly and said it, I would have a conversation with my child and that would be the end of it.

Incidentally, it is never too late to learn and a lack of education does not in any way excuse poor grammar and punctuation.

diveout

Why not.... wrote: »

Look, if it is bothering your mother, who I am assuming is an adult, why don't you let her handle it?

Tell her to speak to the child's parent. They will deal with it. By whinging to you, she is just going to get you to be the villain. I am not a parent, but to be honest, if my sibling got stuck in my child because my mother was complaining behind my back, I would be so annoyed. If she came to me directly and said it, I would have a conversation with my child and that would be the end of it.

Incidentally, it is never too late to learn and a lack of education does not in any way excuse poor grammar and punctuation.

Plus.... I'd say "If you are going to correct my parenting, I sure as hell am going to correct your English." Deal?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

But what's the difference between a child telling someone that they're speaking incorrectly and a child walking up to someone and saying "you know, you're really fat. You should lose weight". Technically, the child is right, and it doesn't have to be meant as being 'nasty' but it's uncalled for, rude and won't earn your child a lot of respect.

People need to know when it's okay to say something and when it's okay not to say something. Being right has nothing to do with it.

Lux23

I have a 32 year old cousin who does this, you do not grow out of it unless someone explains to you that it is an appalling habit to have.

diveout

LexieOnRale wrote: »

But what's the difference between a child telling someone that they're speaking incorrectly and a child walking up to someone and saying "you know, you're really fat. You should lose weight". Technically, the child is right, and it doesn't have to be meant as being 'nasty' but it's uncalled for, rude and won't earn your child a lot of respect.

People need to know when it's okay to say something and when it's okay not to say something. Being right has nothing to do with it.

Because one is personal and one isn't. There is a correct way to speak and kids get corrected all day, they don't get told they are fat all day.

You can't see the difference?

And this isn't just 'someone', this is a grandparent.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

diveout wrote: »

Because one is personal and one isn't. There is a correct way to speak and kids get corrected all day, they don't get told they are fat all day.

You can't see the difference?

And this isn't just 'someone', this is a grandparent.

But it is personal. The lady in question has grown up learning to speak in a certain way. She's obviously self conscious of it, she is embarrassed when her grandchild corrects her. I think it's the same for a fat person. They know how to lose weight, they can change their situation by losing weight if they want a better life.

I'd personally see that as two insecurities. Sure, you're correcting your child when he speaks incorrectly, because you want him to speak properly and clearly and be clever. But you also tell him "no" when he wants too much chocolate or takeaways (I presume) because you want him to grow up healthy and not obese.

Not everyone was given that opportunity at his age, and he should be sat down and explained that sometimes it's not nice to correct other people, especially when they're so much older than him. I don't think anyone is suggesting scolding the child or making him feel bad. Just explain why it's not a nice thing to do.

walshb

He's 9 years old. Not near mature enough to maybe understand that what he is doing could be hurting his grandmother. That will come with time and education on his part, mainly coming from those closest to him, his parents and his grandmother. You never stop maturing and learning. Things you did last year you may not do this year and so on. We grow and mature and wise up year on year. I am sure if we all look back at some of our behaviors through the years we'd be mortified!

FactCheck

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

If he is really that clever then this is the perfect time to teach him about colloquialisms.

.... And manners!

Indeed, if he's so smart he might be interested to know that from a scientific linguistic perspective, there's no such thing as an "incorrect" dialect and many of the idiosyncrasies of the dialect Granny chooses to use are probably more useful (from the point of view of expressing ideas very specifically) than those available in the "prestige" dialect your nephew (and sadly some people on this thread) are defending as superior.

There is no such thing as a superior dialect. There is a prestige dialect, knowledge of which will enhance your career and social prospects, but speakers of it are not "better" or more intelligent or even better educated than somebody who chooses to speak a different dialect. It makes sense to ensure a child has knowledge of the prestige dialect to give them the best chances at life, but that's not a concern for an elderly person.

It would be particularly worthwhile pointing out that Hiberno-English (of the sort used by teachers, politicians, and barristers in this country and published in the Irish Times) still has constructions that most English speakers abroad would regard as "incorrect". It gets sneered at as the speech of the thick, uneducated Irish. A conversation like "Why did you give out to your grandson?" "He was after giving me cheek!" would see you mocked in the United Kingdom (despite that mocker undoubtedly using colloquialisms and dialect of their own).

Well, you wouldn't inevitably be mocked. Only if the listener was very insecure, very unpleasant, and very ignorant of linguistics.

This is all probably a bit much for a nine year old though. Even a "smart" nine year old. I'd stick with "don't correct people who haven't asked for it, it's cheeky and unpleasant".

Eeden

FactCheck, thank you! I get so depressed at the number of sneering, judgmental posts on various threads <Mod snip>. Dialect is dialect, idiom is idiom, accents are accents. It would be dreadful if everyone sounded exactly the same all the time.

There is a time and a place for formal speech, of course. But it's not ALL the time.

Taltos

Eeden - I know the intent was good but linking to threads in other forums is not really on here, all it will result in is the thread spinning off topic in quite a stupendous manner.
Please keep your post on topic and constructive to the OP.

Cheers
Taltos

qdawg86

diveout wrote: »

Because one is personal and one isn't. There is a correct way to speak and kids get corrected all day, they don't get told they are fat all day.

You can't see the difference?

And this isn't just 'someone', this is a grandparent.

Well the OP has made it clear that it is a personal matter for the mother.

We don't all need to speak the Queen's English. My parents both have very thick Dublin accents and use some phrases that are not grammatically correct but that were obviously used regularly in the course of their daily lives growing up. I think its wonderful, particularly as I have been involved in a number of oral history projects, to hear the differences that are so obvious in the speech of older people but are now disappearing (I don't know if its me but a lot of young people seem to talk in a generic, almost American sounding accent no matter where they are from).

But mainly, everyone hates the work colleague who corrects other people's grammar etc.......and that colleague was once a 9 year old.

LegacyUser

What a superb post FactCheck. I second everything you've expressed.

The bottom line is that the child is (almost certainly unintentionally) being extremely rude.

Granny should correct this rudeness on each and every occasion it occurs, but failing that, the child's parents should do it. The child will soon learn that it is inappropriate.

A horrible trait is being nurtured in this child and it should be nipped in the bud both for the child's sake and for the sake of those around them.

As a child I pointed out spelling mistakes on the signs over the fruit and veg at the grocer's. I was, quite rightly, roundly scolded. I got over it. And I was a nicer kid for it.

greengirl31

I'm always amazed at how children are let away with things that we would never let an adult away with. One example is pointing out the OP's mothers shortcomings in her speech. Her mother has spoken that way all her life and has gotten by just fine without a little kid telling her she's wrong !! If her son/daughter-in-law was to do it, there'd be uproar !!

Granny should point out that it's not polite to point out other peoples mistakes - particularly if he does in front of his parents !!

Magicmatilda

Why is everyone assuming that the smart, smart arse 9 year old does not understand that he is being rude. I imagine most 9 year olds in this day and age know well when they are being cheeky or rude.

As an aunt, if my nephew disrespects my mother I tell him to stop, his mother and father have no issue with this because they would also tell him to stop. They do not want to raise an arrogant, rude man.

Anything else is political correctness gone mad!

LynnGrace

He may well not realise it. I have come across adults who appear to have no filter between the brain and what emerges from their mouth, so I think it is quite possible that a nine year old wouldn't realise/ understand that it is rude, especially if he is not told.

Queen-Mise

When my son corrects me - I tell him to stop being so pedantic. He looks at me with a funny look on his face. I explain that if he understood what I meant then that is enough.

This has led into discussions on how annoying being pedantic is and obviously what being pedantic is...

Da Shins Kelly

I think this is definitely something that should be worked out of him. I know people who go on like that at an older age, correcting people's grammar and way of speaking, and it's not a nice trait in a person. It's embarrassing for the person who is being corrected and the person who is doing the correcting just comes off as quite condescending and a bit of snob really. I get that he's just a kid and is probably learning new things in school that he likes trying out and wants to show what he knows, but he's at an age where he needs to know what's appropriate and what isn't and what good manners are, especially around his elders. I think I would have been clipped around the ear if I'd been so cheeky to my grandmother! (not that I'm advocating that!)

gormdubhgorm

diveout wrote: »

Yes I can see what you are saying, but it can also be very jarring to listen to. I have a friend who says "does be" and it drives me crazy.... I just stop hearing what she is saying because the grammar is so bad.

And it doesn't take a superior education to do this.

A bit of Hiberno-English does be great. If the original posters son was talking in that annoying hybrid American Mid-Atlantic accent that would concern me far more!
I think accents/language differences are a part of who we are and should not be ironed out at the expense of what accent is in vogue.

Most people know the difference between formal and informal speech and speak differently depending on the circumstance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-English

simonsays1

Thanks for the link gormdudhgorm,

Very much the lingo in my house! thanks