Air Corps Gulfstream IV at the end of the line?

Larbre34

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/government-perk-under-threat-ageing-state-jet-stuck-in-us-30553595.html

If this report is to be accepted, 251 is having major problems. Cost of repair may be uneconomical and her service may end after 23 years.

So, replace or don't replace? A good second hand model, or €50 million on a new one out of the box and hopefully get 25 years out of it? Or a charter or air-taxi arrangement? Will the Air Corps want to give up a big part of MATS

Either way its a bad time for the Govt and DoD to have to think about this. Objectively, a medium range corporate jet is necessary for the Govt to carry out its engagements and keep Ireland's interests represented in Brussels, when summit or emergency meetings seldom suit scheduled airlines. However with ordinary people still feeling a massive pinch, spending any sort of substantial money on a plane will be a hard sell.

folbotcar

This was discussed to death over on the aviation section recently.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057272189

My own view is that the Learjet is more than sufficient for most needs. If something bigger or faster or even smaller and slower it can be ordered in as needed.

There are plenty of VIP jet charter operators out there who could have a jet at your local apart in a few hours if needed. I'm sure there would be considerable competition to get a lucrative Irish government contract.

Anyone who has the money can order up a jet as big as you like to go anywhere in the world at short notice. It's certainly less expensive than buying your own.

There is simply no justification anymore for something like the GIV. It's too big and too expensive.

sparky42

According to the Indo, the Defence Department is touting for a "multi-role" Gulf IV replacement?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/military-chiefs-want-state-to-purchase-40m-jet-30566287.html

knucklehead6

sparky42 wrote: »

According to the Indo, the Defence Department is touting for a "multi-role" Gulf IV replacement?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/military-chiefs-want-state-to-purchase-40m-jet-30566287.html

the 23 year old lear 4....

Says all you need to know about the independent and it's accuracy.

OS119

while the C-20C GulfstreamIV of the USN is a damn sight more multi-role (up to three pallets, with a pallet sized cargo door, and a roller floor, or a mix of pallets and passengers) than the current GIV, the unpleasant truth for the politicos - and lets the honest, the AC hierachy looking to get GIV certification on their licences.. €40m buys you something an awful lot more multi-role than a GIV...

€40 buys a CASA-295 with a decent Defensive Aids Suite and lots, and lots, of spares. it'll take 5 pallets not 3, 71 troops not 26, 3 parachute delivered pallets not, err... none, and it'll take 12 stretchers and a High Dependancy Unit...

it is slower than the Gulfstream, it doesn't look so fancy (though one could argue about the wisdom of looking flash when attending an EU finance meeting when the German Finance minster arrived by train..), however its take-off run requirement is about half that of the GIV - 670m vs 1800m...

one of these aircraft can do air ambulance, passenger transport and some cargo transport, the other can do air ambulance, more passenger transport, more cargo transport, parachuting, and short/rough field operations.

one looks sleek, the other does more stuff.

sparky42

OS119 wrote: »

while the C-20C GulfstreamIV of the USN is a damn sight more multi-role (up to three pallets, with a pallet sized cargo door, and a roller floor, or a mix of pallets and passengers) than the current GIV, the unpleasant truth for the politicos - and lets the honest, the AC hierachy looking to get GIV certification on their licences.. €40m buys you something an awful lot more multi-role than a GIV...

€40 buys a CASA-295 with a decent Defensive Aids Suite and lots, and lots, of spares. it'll take 5 pallets not 3, 71 troops not 26, 3 parachute delivered pallets not, err... none, and it'll take 12 stretchers and a High Dependancy Unit...

it is slower than the Gulfstream, it doesn't look so fancy (though one could argue about the wisdom of looking flash when attending an EU finance meeting when the German Finance minster arrived by train..), however its take-off run requirement is about half that of the GIV - 670m vs 1800m...

one of these aircraft can do air ambulance, passenger transport and some cargo transport, the other can do air ambulance, more passenger transport, more cargo transport, parachuting, and short/rough field operations.

one looks sleek, the other does more stuff.

Oh wouldn't that be a lovely purchase for the Air Corps and give us much more capability.

Larbre34

Airlift capability is desirable but is another topic altogether.

Whatever plane replaces the G-IV, whether by purchase or charter, it needs to be fast and it needs to be long range as MATS trips to North America are as or more economically vital than trips to Brussels or Berlin.

OS119

Larbre34 wrote: »

Airlift capability is desirable but is another topic altogether.

Whatever plane replaces the G-IV, whether by purchase or charter, it needs to be fast and it needs to be long range as MATS trips to North America are as or more economically vital than trips to Brussels or Berlin.

sorry, but deeply wrong on both points.

firstly airlift is the movement of stuff or people by air - the fanciest G IV and the worlds filthiest C-130 both come under this heading.

secondly trips to the US neither have the same economic or political importance as trips to the EU, nor do they ever happen on the same 2 hours notice basis - if the trip has more than a few days notice go commercial, if its a big diplomatic thing like St Patricks day charter an Aer Lingus jet.

a multi-role cargo/passenger aircraft like a 295 or C-27 will be in brussels two hours after leaving Dublin, something flash will save an hour. whoop-de-whoo.

Silvera

If commonsense prevails a C-295, C-27J or similar aircraft will be purchased to replace the Gulfstream.

ted1

40m? The navy really do get a better value