Making Money in Beef!

AP2014

Hi,

Only farming 3 years and on a part time basis. But have made money the last 3 years and can't understand how some lads are losing so much.

Here is a rough breakdown of my costs and income. It's a small 30acre farm with decent enough land. No sheds or machinery though. I buy 25 bullocks in march and sell nov. Buy avg ones around 300kg for between 700 and 800. Never never give crazy money. I sell in nov between 1000 and 1100.

I sell 200 bales of silage of the ground for 12 euro a bale. Not great grass but ok, some weeds.

Income SFP/DAS 10,000
Cattle 200 * 25 5,000
Bales 250 * 12 3,000

Expenses
Fert 3 ton 1,200
Vet testing 300
pouron 200
other 300

Total profit of 16,000 on 30 acres where I work away from home during week and farm an hour or 2 saturdays. I always have lads to buy stores in nov and give great money. A queue of neighbours mad for silage and trying to out do each other in their new blue hollands but claiming no money in farming. They are reseeding ground and do other crazy stuff under advice from teagasc. I have to laugh at them. Then they get 3.65 for qa bullocks when cull cows are getting nearly the same and going into the same burgers. J

How the hell are full time farmers here with a 100 plus acres not able to make a few pound?

Muckit

Your some man for one man! Pride comes before a fall. Get back to us after you sell this year!

Damo810

You might be forgetting a few costs in there..

lakill Farm

your vet is screwing you for the herd test

RightTurnClyde

lakill Farm wrote: »

your vet is screwing you for the herd test

Contractor's working for nothing though...swings and roundabouts.:) )

Damo810

lakill Farm wrote: »

your vet is screwing you for the herd test

I think his account might be leading him astray too. Ya wouldn't know him would ya?

lakill Farm

Damo810 wrote: »

I think his account might be leading him astray too. Ya wouldn't know him would ya?

no. he be better off claiming all his expenses and not paying a pile of tax is my suggestion

don't forget to put in 40 euro for a pair of wellies as the mileage up and back to the mart must be a killer

AP2014

Muckit wrote: »

Your some man for one man! Pride comes before a fall. Get back to us after you sell this year!

It maybe back a bit but at the moment stores holding ok. I will sell late nov this year. I think lads will get itchy and be gagging to fill their big sheds in the hope it will turn around.

I'm not trying to boast. But I see beef lads around me with serious tractors, jeeps etc and loaded up with stock. Reseeding etc.

Why do this if losing money? I'm skeptical at this stage about all this money loss.

AP2014

Damo810 wrote: »

You might be forgetting a few costs in there..

Such as?

AP2014

lakill Farm wrote: »

your vet is screwing you for the herd test

Na thats overall costs for him, usually need the odd bottle of stuff when I first buy them. They get the odd cold etc.

Willfarman

Trolling lads. Don't rise to it.

Farmer Pudsey

You are also draining your land of P&K and lime. You will notice that after a few years that grass drop all of a sudden as you ph and soil fertility drops. It is real easy to make money while cattle prices rise. You have no depreciation as of yet however that is a tax game often. Looking at you fertlizer you are buying 3 ton of fertlizer or two bags/acre. you have no slurry. Lad buying the silage is a bit soft as he not drying or packing the bales enough.

Also ever acre of silage is taking 100 units of K and 16 of P along with maybe 100 units of N. That is anything from 80-110 euro of fertlizer and lime.

AP2014

lakill Farm wrote: »

no. he be better off claiming all his expenses and not paying a pile of tax is my suggestion

don't forget to put in 40 euro for a pair of wellies as the mileage up and back to the mart must be a killer

Dealer buys and sells them for me. I pay my taxes. Don't understand this crying about beef price and then lads doing their best to spend every penny on mad things so they don't have to pay tax. The irony off it.

Damo810

AP2014 wrote: »

Such as?

I'm not quite sure where to start.

Mortality
Diesel
Contractors (Thats the profit from your bales gone)
Haulage
Mart fees
Wear and tear
Machinery (Unless it's all done by contractor)
Only using 3T of fert for 25 bullocks and 250 bales too?

I could go on..

amacca

Also

Try doing it with no SFP because you got screwed out of it

Try doing it with loan repayments on land or rental costs………..a lot of lads don't have the luxury of owning the ground outright with no burden on it from the start……….some don't own it outright until they are nearly at retirement age themselves etc

As above wheres your silage costs?


Perhaps you are making that much out of it, perhaps you are delusional

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps!

AP2014

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You are also draining your land of P&K and lime. You will notice that after a few years that grass drop all of a sudden as you ph and soil fertility drops. It is real easy to make money while cattle prices rise. You have no depreciation as of yet however that is a tax game often. Looking at you fertlizer you are buying 3 ton of fertlizer or two bags/acre. you have no slurry. Lad buying the silage is a bit soft as he not drying or packing the bales enough.

Also ever acre of silage is taking 100 units of K and 16 of P along with maybe 100 units of N. That is anything from 80-110 euro of fertlizer and lime.

Hi, I think you maybe right here. 18.6.12 I use. This year it seems to be getting poorer. Didn't think you lost lime through silage. I could do with some slurry alright.


How do you mean no depreciation tax game?

Butcher Boy

what about the mart and haulage are they free or what.for god sake don't tell anyone else you are making that kind of money .

AP2014

Damo810 wrote: »

I'm not quite sure where to start.

Mortality
Diesel
Contractors (Thats the profit from your bales gone)
Haulage
Mart fees
Wear and tear
Machinery (Unless it's all done by contractor)
Only using 3T of fert for 25 bullocks and 250 bales too?

I could go on..

Touch wood no mortality. No machinery or contractors. I give the neighbours young lad a few pound to spread fert. Mart fees and haulage I still make 200 a head I have taken them out.
Lads that buy bales pay the contractor to cut and bale for them.

Muckit

He's just gone into fourth year this week, took up ag science. ......


and now he's an expert!!

AP2014

Butcher Boy wrote: »

what about the mart and haulage are they free or what.for god sake don't tell anyone else you are making that kind of money .

Nope have taken them out but still clear 200 a head. Some of the land is great for putting weight on them.

TITANIUM.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You are also draining your land of P&K and lime. You will notice that after a few years that grass drop all of a sudden as you ph and soil fertility drops. It is real easy to make money while cattle prices rise. You have no depreciation as of yet however that is a tax game often. Looking at you fertlizer you are buying 3 ton of fertlizer or two bags/acre. you have no slurry. Lad buying the silage is a bit soft as he not drying or packing the bales enough.

Also ever acre of silage is taking 100 units of K and 16 of P along with maybe 100 units of N. That is anything from 80-110 euro of fertlizer and lime.

I knew you'd be the man to bamboozle him with figures.


Call Coveney quick lads.
This buck has figured out a way to save the beef sector!

The Letheram

There is a letheram in this thread.

einn32

AP2014 wrote:

Na thats overall costs for him, usually need the odd bottle of stuff when I first buy them. They get the odd cold etc.

Lempsip is cheaper than the vets oul stuff for the colds.

AP2014

Muckit wrote: »

He's just gone into fourth year this week, took up ag science. ......


and now he's an expert!!

I inherited farm like lots of lads on here. I am no expert. I do it part time. Weekend stuff and helpful neighbours and I help them out when I can.

I have nothing fancy, no sheds machinery or loans. I am making a nice little side income and am wondering how the hell are other lads losing so much. Is it just poor money mgt.

jimmydkid

AP2014 wrote: »

Such as?

Contractor, insurance, meal , tags, fencing, transport from and to mart, accountant, taxman and another hundred things

lakill Farm

AP2014 wrote: »

Dealer buys and sells them for me. I pay my taxes. Don't understand this crying about beef price and then lads doing their best to spend every penny on mad things so they don't have to pay tax. The irony off it.

I look at farmers accounts 5 days a week. diary, sheep, beef, suckler, lads with 10 cattle, lads with 600 cattle on the herd book at a time

The part timers and the full timers

and if you are sending in a tax return with 15k profit from 25 cattle and 30 acres id really like you to hold a conference for my clients. ill foot your expenditure

LivInt20

AP2014 wrote: »

Such as?

Sorry to knock you but,

Contractor €10-12 per bale plus plastic €4 that's €3,500.

So 16000 less SFP 10000 less contractor and plastic leaves

€2500.

Now that might be your profit. Not much for 30 acres.

Willfarman

lakill Farm wrote: »

I look at farmers accounts 5 days a week. diary, sheep, beef, suckler, lads with 10 cattle, lads with 600 cattle on the herd book at a time

The part timers and the full timers

and if you are sending in a tax return with 15k profit from 25 cattle and 30 acres id really like you to hold a conference for my clients. ill foot your expenditure

he will have no expenditure!

AP2014

TITANIUM. wrote: »

I knew you'd be the man to bamboozle him with figures.


Call Coveney quick lads.
This buck has figured out a way to save the beef sector!

Lol, I'm doing alright. It's a hobby and I am making a few pound on it. Not sure what some of the pros are at.

Anyway I laugh when I see lads giving out about coveney. Sure isn't he's brother in the beef industry what they expect. And why are lads obeying the factories with all this qa specs etc? They can change it within a month but lads spend 2 years getting cattle to killing spec.

amacca

lakill Farm wrote: »

and if you are sending in a tax return with 15k profit from 25 cattle and 30 acres id really like you to hold a conference for my clients. ill foot your expenditure

LOL! If its verified I'd buy a ticket to that, I be well on the way to my first farming million within 5 years with what I'd discover.

Watch out Larry, here I come, I'm going to monopolise production a play hardball the way you won't like it!

AP2014

LivInt20 wrote: »

Sorry to knock you but,

Contractor €10-12 per bale plus plastic €4 that's €3,500.

So 16000 less SFP 10000 less contractor and plastic leaves

€2500.

Now that might be your profit. Not much for 30 acres.

No, I sell the grass for 12 euro. The buyer pays contractor and gets plastic. Not sure what they pay.

amacca

AP2014 wrote: »

And why are lads obeying the factories with all this qa specs etc?

You're entertaining, Ill give you that:)

Reggie.

This is gonna be one of those threads :rolleyes:

einn32

Maybe I missed something but how do you get 200 bales out of it? Seems incredible if you have 25 bullocks too.

AP2014

lakill Farm wrote: »

I look at farmers accounts 5 days a week. diary, sheep, beef, suckler, lads with 10 cattle, lads with 600 cattle on the herd book at a time

The part timers and the full timers

and if you are sending in a tax return with 15k profit from 25 cattle and 30 acres id really like you to hold a conference for my clients. ill foot your expenditure

What advice are you giving them? I see lads year in year out doing same thing and complaining no money in beef. They are the lads at ringside that will drive a nice white chx I would have up to 1150.

SFP/DAS is 10,000 without lifting a finger. So I suppose it it 6,000 on the 30 acres excluding that. My SFP is only avg compared to alot of lads.

Damo810

AP2014 wrote: »

Touch wood no mortality. No machinery or contractors. I give the neighbours young lad a few pound to spread fert. Mart fees and haulage I still make 200 a head I have taken them out.
Lads that buy bales pay the contractor to cut and bale for them.

Sunny, if you've never lost an animal, your not in this game long I'm afraid.

"A few pound has to be added in." I don't see your Mart fees or haulage down, unless thats part of the other @ 300, leaving you €12 a head, to and from haulage and mart fees? Might be time to re-evaluate that..

Is all ya do is buy them and fire them off down the land? No fencing, water, etc..

Your also taking SFP/DAS as profit, they're not. The real 'profit' is the supposed 6K you have left over after somehow set stocking 25 bullocks on 30 acres and then making 250 bales. Which seemingly cost you nothing to grow?

AP2014

einn32 wrote: »

Maybe I missed something but how do you get 200 bales out of it? Seems incredible if you have 25 bullocks too.

They are weanlings so would be getting feck all until July. Have the fert out early and tell lads to have cut by 1st week in July.

Willfarman

AP2014 wrote: »

What advice are you giving them? I see lads year in year out doing same thing and complaining no money in beef. They are the lads at ringside that will drive a nice white chx I would have up to 1150.

SFP/DAS is 10,000 without lifting a finger. So I suppose it it 6,000 on the 30 acres excluding that. My SFP is only avg compared to alot of lads.

I do have to agree here in fairness.

amacca

and persistent!

c'mere coochy coochy coo……whose a cute little fella, yes he is, yes he is :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

lakill Farm

AP2014 wrote: »

What advice are you giving them? I see lads year in year out doing same thing and complaining no money in beef. They are the lads at ringside that will drive a nice white chx I would have up to 1150.

SFP/DAS is 10,000 without lifting a finger. So I suppose it it 6,000 on the 30 acres excluding that. My SFP is only avg compared to alot of lads.

from tomorrow it will be to move over to your way of farming

I know diary lads who will be putting herds of cows up for sale

I have never once told a client what to do, I advise taking in all known facts

Farmer Pudsey

Who ever left you the farm must have stacked a lot of payments, at present you have 750/HA however that will drop to around 500 by 2019 so it will soften your cough a bit.

AP2014

Willfarman wrote: »

I do have to agree here in fairness.

I'm just telling it as it is. Why the hell are lads jumping through hoops for factories as well. Jesus if I had to reseed etc. there would be nothing in it. But how much extra would reseeding give me. Damn all I'd say.

lakill Farm

had you a big CAT or stamp duty bill when you inherited the farm.

I presume you didn't claim agricultural relief as you are not farming full time

AP2014

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Who ever left you the farm must have stacked a lot of payments, at present you have 750/HA however that will drop to around 500 by 2019 so it will soften your cough a bit.

I agree and it will drop for others too unfort. I am not giving you my future profits. Just what I am making now.

AP2014

lakill Farm wrote: »

had you a big CAT or stamp duty bill when you inherited the farm.

I presume you didn't claim agricultural relief as you are not farming full time

No bill, passed over from father.

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

No bill, passed over from father.

Surely CGT on it...

AP2014

lakill Farm wrote: »

from tomorrow it will be to move over to your way of farming

I know diary lads who will be putting herds of cows up for sale

I have never once told a client what to do, I advise taking in all known facts

That's just it, it won't be. Lads don't seem capable of changing. I look forward to the prices my stores will get this Nov. Not sure why a client would pay an accountant big cash if not willing to advise a farmer.

I seen a previous thread here on accountant fees and the difference was crazy.

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

Surely CGT on it...

Not when you know the auctioneer that was valuing it :0)

All transferred for under 2k. But this isn't a yearly farm expense. It was a once off payment.

AP2014

Damo810 wrote: »

Sunny, if you've never lost an animal, your not in this game long I'm afraid.

"A few pound has to be added in." I don't see your Mart fees or haulage down, unless thats part of the other @ 300, leaving you €12 a head, to and from haulage and mart fees? Might be time to re-evaluate that..

Is all ya do is buy them and fire them off down the land? No fencing, water, etc..

Your also taking SFP/DAS as profit, they're not. The real 'profit' is the supposed 6K you have left over after somehow set stocking 25 bullocks on 30 acres and then making 250 bales. Which seemingly cost you nothing to grow?

I have said SFP/DAS 10,000. I don't lift a finger for this which is great but sure who here doesn't get DAS/SFP?

Fert costs me 1200 so the grass doesn't grow for nothing.

lakill Farm

AP2014 wrote: »

That's just it, it won't be. Lads don't seem capable of changing. I look forward to the prices my stores will get this Nov. Not sure why a client would pay an accountant big cash if not willing to advise a farmer.

I seen a previous thread here on accountant fees and the difference was crazy.

to be honest every client is different. what works for one person does not work for another.

some people pay crazy money yes. nothing I can do about that

how much by the way do you pay your accountant?

Muckit

How many acres do you stop for silage?