leaving dairy farming.

mike hilux

Hello

I'm fairly new to dairying and I suppose I'm new to farming in general. I have been diary farming n my own right for the last 4 year's and I don't like it in all honesty.

I have 120acres in 3 blocks of about the same size with 2 blocks joining at a small strip of land but divided by a river. I'm thinking of putting a bridge across this river.

There is a 3 bay slatted shed on the farm which I an thinking of adding another 3 bay's to so I will have a 6 bay open side north facing shed and extending the back out 15 foot for a lie back for calves. The slatts are 15 ft with a 2ft toe space front and rear giving a pen of 19x15ft 9.

I'm am thinking about an autumn calving suckling herd and have bought a charolais bull for the dairy cows so I'm breeding the herd from the dairy and will cross this to a simmental blood line as a second cross for mothers and probably a limousine for their calves

I'm looking at having 42 cows on a block of 84 acres with 7 cows to a pen in the shed. 10 replacements with an easy calving Hereford bull that I already have. on a 9 acre plot and also 20 yearling bullocks on the remaining 26 acres which is very segregated but all within walking distance.

I'm looking into getting an off farm job doing something I enjoy more than farming also to supplement income.

Can I get any opinions on the farming side of this plan regarding anything from stocking rate to pro's and con's of what is stated above. and iv made up my mind to get out of milking.

Thank you. Mike

Greengrass1

mike hilux wrote: »

Hello

I'm fairly new to dairying and I suppose I'm new to farming in general. I have been diary farming n my own right for the last 4 year's and I don't like it in all honesty.

I have 120acres in 3 blocks of about the same size with 2 blocks joining at a small strip of land but divided by a river. I'm thinking of putting a bridge across this river.

There is a 3 bay slatted shed on the farm which I an thinking of adding another 3 bay's to so I will have a 6 bay open side north facing shed and extending the back out 15 foot for a lie back for calves. The slatts are 15 ft with a 2ft toe space front and rear giving a pen of 19x15ft 9.

I'm am thinking about an autumn calving suckling herd and have bought a charolais bull for the dairy cows so I'm breeding the herd from the dairy and will cross this to a simmental blood line as a second cross for mothers and probably a limousine for their calves

I'm looking at having 42 cows on a block of 84 acres with 7 cows to a pen in the shed. 10 replacements with an easy calving Hereford bull that I already have. on a 9 acre plot and also 20 yearling bullocks on the remaining 26 acres which is very segregated but all within walking distance.

I'm looking into getting an off farm job doing something I enjoy more than farming also to supplement income.

Can I get any opinions on the farming side of this plan regarding anything from stocking rate to pro's and con's of what is stated above. and iv made up my mind to get out of milking.

Thank you. Mike

Best of luck with it mike. At least you know what you want, dairying isn't for every one. I know nothing about suckling so the other lads can help ye there but ye should gave nice milky beef cows from the dairy side

Feckthis

mike hilux wrote: »

Hello

I'm fairly new to dairying and I suppose I'm new to farming in general. I have been diary farming n my own right for the last 4 year's and I don't like it in all honesty.

I have 120acres in 3 blocks of about the same size with 2 blocks joining at a small strip of land but divided by a river. I'm thinking of putting a bridge across this river.

There is a 3 bay slatted shed on the farm which I an thinking of adding another 3 bay's to so I will have a 6 bay open side north facing shed and extending the back out 15 foot for a lie back for calves. The slatts are 15 ft with a 2ft toe space front and rear giving a pen of 19x15ft 9.

I'm am thinking about an autumn calving suckling herd and have bought a charolais bull for the dairy cows so I'm breeding the herd from the dairy and will cross this to a simmental blood line as a second cross for mothers and probably a limousine for their calves

I'm looking at having 42 cows on a block of 84 acres with 7 cows to a pen in the shed. 10 replacements with an easy calving Hereford bull that I already have. on a 9 acre plot and also 20 yearling bullocks on the remaining 26 acres which is very segregated but all within walking distance.

I'm looking into getting an off farm job doing something I enjoy more than farming also to supplement income.

Can I get any opinions on the farming side of this plan regarding anything from stocking rate to pro's and con's of what is stated above. and iv made up my mind to get out of milking.

Thank you. Mike

You seam to know what your at anyway mike as you have put time into planning your next move. My advise would be Keep it simple as possible. And From hearing on another thread you cleared a big debt so upon selling your dairy cows you might have a little cash reserve which will be most beneficial to you in Sucklers as I presume your going the weanling route which is hard on cashflow. Best of luck on your new adventure. I hope everything works out for you.

Farrell

Mike, would I be right to presume your dairy cows are strong bf?
Would blonde be a better cross than the charolais, as build the material element, & you'd have the milk from the bf's.
I like your plan, & fair play & good luck to you, this is just food for thought

tanko

If you are working away from home you will need to be very well set up for the calving season. Will you have someone reliable to watch your cows. Have you enough calving pens and some pens to put freshly calved cows and their calves.

tismesoitis

Mike if you don't "enjoy" the farming then why stick at it?? Get yourself a job lease out the farm and see how you get on!! If you find yourself missing the land you can always get back in. Theres too many lads out there farming because they think they have too...Life is too short!! You gotta love it to do it!!

mike hilux

Hello.

Yes the cows are bf. I actually don't know much about the blondes and didn't think about them. The reasons for going with the charolais was (1st) their is always great trade at the local mart and I sourced a bull that was a brother to a neighbors bull that when put to Angus x cows each made around the €1000 mark at yearling stage while being outwintered. (2) I wanted to get rid of the black colour of the friesian before I go back to simmental because I often got a black and white simmental calf from my own herd but usually found that a mouse coloured comrade would fetch a better price.

My plan is ti calf down 40 cows and 10 heifers from late Sept to mid Dec at grass for as many as possible and for the first few years sell at a year old. Then maybe extend the shed and keep calves until spring and then sell about 20 at about 16 months. The rest will either be kept for breeding or hopefully finished off grass and meal if needed at about 22 months.

The idea being I have two sale dates. Oneto bring me into the summer and another to bring me into the winter. Also a lot of people say there is nothing out of sucklers. Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

mike hilux

When It comes to an off farm job I'm treading very carefully. Thinking of trying to get back into a horse stud I was in a few years back and saying I'll need time off in autumn for calving.

Or iv been batting around the idea of going landscaping with someone and seeing if I like it and maybe branching out on my own eventually.

Their are some other ideas also like I did bar work through college and I used to have a big interest in photography. I don't really know yet but if anyone has any insight into off farm work that suits a farmer then I'm all ears.

Thank you. Mike.

Wheelinone

There is nothing out if sucklers. Maybe try rearing dairy replacements. Less risk. More reward.

Deano7

The best of luck in your new venture, when picking your new system remember profit isn't the main concern! Being able to enjoy your life should b number 1!!

stretch film

You should get good financial advice about the tax issues with the disposal of milking herd (calved next spring I presume). You prob have a parlour and tank for sale too .... by the sounds of it you want to build up a herd from your own base. .why not buy a herd . know one aut calving suckler man and its a labour and facility intensive system in his opinion. If the returns are as poor as outlined here its an expensive hobby that your not that into in the first place...

In an ideal world it would be nice to think that the dispersal pot could set u up at whatever you want to do career wise and the renting of the farm could bolster it..
It will still be there at a later date.

Damo810

What part of the country are you in Mike? You would make a fair bit from renting the farm out alone, keeping it in milk. The thing is, adding on sheds and converting over is a fair investment and risk along with a huge amount of hassle too. Surely there are plenty of farmers in the area that would kill to rent a setup like that. Perfect for a younger farmer looking to start up or expand.

What is it about dairying that you dislike that won't be involved in sucklers. And given the time and money needed to get going in sucklers it really doesn't make sense financially to switch over. Would you entertain the idea of renting at all?

leg wax

any fool was getting big money for weanlings the last 2 years,the 1000 euro weanling is now fast becoming a no money maker,costs are just not adding up,we all have good cattle but the bad ones bring down the average and these are often forgotten about.
my own advice is pick a market that you are aiming for with your weanlings,and stick to the plan,you are in a good place as you are starting off,so you can start right.

keep going

Are going sucking with your fr cows or are yoy selling fr and buying suckers, id have thought you would have a good chance of swapping you fr for a suckler herd in one go reducing the desease risk

stanflt

125 acres if rented out and Sfp will return you 40k tax free if set for a long lease

Username John

stanflt wrote: »

125 acres if rented out and Sfp will return you 40k tax free if set for a long lease

Need to be over 40 to receive lease income tax-free I believe.

Panch18

stanflt wrote: »

125 acres if rented out and Sfp will return you 40k tax free if set for a long lease

you sure about that?

As far as I was aware it was

12k for a lease 5-7 years
15k for a lease 7-10 years
20k for 10 or longer

And the lessor has to be 40 or over to qualify for this relief

stanflt

Panch18 wrote: »

you sure about that?

As far as I was aware it was

12k for a lease 5-7 years
15k for a lease 7-10 years
20k for 10 or longer

And the lessor has to be 40 or over to qualify for this relief

Well then at least hell get 20k tax free
And then pay tax on the rest
He'll make a hell of a lot more than he would at suckling without any hassle
All leases should be paid direct debit monthly

It's a no brainer

Panch18

stanflt wrote: »

Well then at least hell get 20k tax free
And then pay tax on the rest
He'll make a hell of a lot more than he would at suckling without any hassle
All leases should be paid direct debit monthly

It's a no brainer

It is a no brainer

Just trying to give him the correct info

lakill Farm

why not go into partnership with a young lad and stay at the diary?

you can go off do your landscape or stud farm and sell off all calves and keep system simple?

mike hilux

Hello.

What I don't like about dairying is the actual milking and having to be there twice a day for 7 days a week. I would like to get the odd morning or Sunday off without it being a big deal at home.

I would also like to have a bit of company during the day as I find the solitude hard to deal with. This is why I'm looking at getting a job off farm.

What are the thoughts on breeding a suckler heard from my diary herd or buying a ready made herd.. Also I'm not looking to get out of farming. It's just that dairying and me don't get on.

Also a point against renting is that the farm probably should not be a dairy farm due to the amount of time the animals spend on the public road to get from grass to the parlour. So I don't think anyone would rent it and use the facilities for dairying.

I have a few sucklers at the moment also and have done double suckling on high cell cows in the past. I always liked watching the cows with their calves. Soppy I know but when I'd be finished milking in the evening I will often go see the sucklers just to chill out.

When people say that their is nothing out of suckling I do wonder but I know I'll get my pants pulled down if I start looking at buying drystock every year and also the idea of contract rearing dairy heifers scares me with all the hitting target weight and being held completely accountable for another's animals.

Is their not one good word out there for the suckler herd

handlemaster

Panch18 wrote: »

you sure about that?

As far as I was aware it was

12k for a lease 5-7 years
15k for a lease 7-10 years
20k for 10 or longer

And the lessor has to be 40 or over to qualify for this relief

Over 40 and be un apacitated i think

Cow Porter

handlemaster wrote: »

Over 40 and be un apacitated i think

one or the other!

Farrell

mike hilux wrote: »

Hello.

What I don't like about dairying is the actual milking and having to be there twice a day for 7 days a week. I would like to get the odd morning or Sunday off without it being a big deal at home.

I have a few sucklers at the moment also and have done double suckling on high cell cows in the past. I always liked watching the cows with their calves. Soppy I know but when I'd be finished milking in the evening I will often go see the sucklers just to chill out.

Is their not one good word out there for the suckler herd

We both have full time Jobs & keep a few Sucklers & Sheep, it's not easy (time especially), but it's enjoyable (when things go right).
Our Calves are aimed for the Export trade & 90% are (ICBF). We do get good prices, but the odd "screw" happens too!
Personally I like your plan, but as some have said - pick your market & suit to it.
We calve Autumn & Spring don't find a difference once diet is controlled & advantage to Autumn is calves get start at grass & could potentially be finished off grass, while spring can be turfed out straight away (weather pending).
You've a good start with BF cows to breed replacement off, & they can be sold to buy proven Sucklers (short term) with potential to leave a little extra cash, as there probably will be some Suckler clearance sales.
Best of luck with what you decide.

farm14

You must be mad to swap a dairy herd for sucklers. Sucklers are a dead loss mike.

Miname

Keep say 20 heifers off your own cows and buy twenty in calf sucklers. 42 cows on 125 acres seems way understocked

mike hilux

Hello

42 cows on 84 acres and 10 replacement heifers on 11 acres with 20 bullocks at 16 months to finishing on 27 acres is the plan. What do you think of those numbers? I was going on about 2lu to thehectare which I saw in the journal.

I just can't do the milking any longer. As the older generation have said to me when I say it "sure you weren't raised to it" I don't know much about milking and only did it long term for a year in nz about ten years ago but there was a great farm manager that thought me loads. And iv been milking the home herd since the uncle passed 4 years ago.

I've never taken to it and often blame the setup with bad sheds all spread out over the farm and fighting with motorists on the road morning and evening. But the cost of a new milking parlor and cubicle shed and calving facilities are just beyond what I'll ever get in the bank. Not to mind paying it back.

I would only be able to realistically milk 65 cows and that's still crossing the road and walking the cows over a mile a day for at least one milking while I'm holding off silage ground. I just don't see it as a runner but maybe I'm wrong. At the end of the day I'm still not in love with milking and iv often had it said that I'm just not a settled person yet.

In all honesty I would happily pack my bags and jump on a plane to anywhere and see how I go. Which is what I was doing after college for a good few years but I'm just gone 30 and want to put down some roots. Maybe meet someone and try to have some stability going forward. This is why I'm trying to make some sort of a go on the farm but I also want a degree of happiness in my daily routine which I don't think I'll ever have milking cows.

I will say fair play to dairy farmers and my hat is off to you. You do a hard job everyday. It's just not for me. Maybe I'm just lazy but I'm jumping ship.

Sincerest regards. Mike.

farm14

Wish you well whatever you do but my advice would be to think it through carefully. You wont get as good an income from any other sector as you will from milking cows. Their are plenty of dairy farmers with large enough herds that have a good lifestyle.

Dawggone

mike hilux wrote: »

Hello

42 cows on 84 acres and 10 replacement heifers on 11 acres with 20 bullocks at 16 months to finishing on 27 acres is the plan. What do you think of those numbers? I was going on about 2lu to thehectare which I saw in the journal.

I just can't do the milking any longer. As the older generation have said to me when I say it "sure you weren't raised to it" I don't know much about milking and only did it long term for a year in nz about ten years ago but there was a great farm manager that thought me loads. And iv been milking the home herd since the uncle passed 4 years ago.

I've never taken to it and often blame the setup with bad sheds all spread out over the farm and fighting with motorists on the road morning and evening. But the cost of a new milking parlor and cubicle shed and calving facilities are just beyond what I'll ever get in the bank. Not to mind paying it back.

I would only be able to realistically milk 65 cows and that's still crossing the road and walking the cows over a mile a day for at least one milking while I'm holding off silage ground. I just don't see it as a runner but maybe I'm wrong. At the end of the day I'm still not in love with milking and iv often had it said that I'm just not a settled person yet.

In all honesty I would happily pack my bags and jump on a plane to anywhere and see how I go. Which is what I was doing after college for a good few years but I'm just gone 30 and want to put down some roots. Maybe meet someone and try to have some stability going forward. This is why I'm trying to make some sort of a go on the farm but I also want a degree of happiness in my daily routine which I don't think I'll ever have milking cows.

I will say fair play to dairy farmers and my hat is off to you. You do a hard job everyday. It's just not for me. Maybe I'm just lazy but I'm jumping ship.

Sincerest regards. Mike.

Good on you Mike. I just don't know how some farmers can do such a brain numbing job 24/7. I know I couldn't do it either. There are many,many other ways to make a living.

Timmaay

Dawggone wrote: »

Good on you Mike. I just don't know how some farmers can do such a brain numbing job 24/7. I know I couldn't do it either. There are many,many other ways to make a living.

Agreed 100%, dairying might be the only game in town now but the bottom line is if your heart isn't in it then don't annoy yourself with it, 65 cows, reasonable borrowings (for a new parlour etc), and then loads of time wasted with road crossings and all that would be barely viable in my book at the best of times, but combine that with a lack of interest in dairying and your at utterly nothing.

Renting it out still does sound like the most viable option still to be honest! You could rent out 1/2 of it, and only keep the better blocks of land which are close by, then run some sort of very basic system. You mentioned sucklers, I personally just think they are too much work with too little a return, especially of you want to work full time also, go with some other system would be my suggestion.

keep going

mike hilux wrote: »

Hello

42 cows on 84 acres and 10 replacement heifers on 11 acres with 20 bullocks at 16 months to finishing on 27 acres is the plan. What do you think of those numbers? I was going on about 2lu to thehectare which I saw in the journal.

I just can't do the milking any longer. As the older generation have said to me when I say it "sure you weren't raised to it" I don't know much about milking and only did it long term for a year in nz about ten years ago but there was a great farm manager that thought me loads. And iv been milking the home herd since the uncle passed 4 years ago.

I've never taken to it and often blame the setup with bad sheds all spread out over the farm and fighting with motorists on the road morning and evening. But the cost of a new milking parlor and cubicle shed and calving facilities are just beyond what I'll ever get in the bank. Not to mind paying it back.

I would only be able to realistically milk 65 cows and that's still crossing the road and walking the cows over a mile a day for at least one milking while I'm holding off silage ground. I just don't see it as a runner but maybe I'm wrong. At the end of the day I'm still not in love with milking and iv often had it said that I'm just not a settled person yet.

In all honesty I would happily pack my bags and jump on a plane to anywhere and see how I go. Which is what I was doing after college for a good few years but I'm just gone 30 and want to put down some roots. Maybe meet someone and try to have some stability going forward. This is why I'm trying to make some sort of a go on the farm but I also want a degree of happiness in my daily routine which I don't think I'll ever have milking cows.

I will say fair play to dairy farmers and my hat is off to you. You do a hard job everyday. It's just not for me. Maybe I'm just lazy but I'm jumping ship.

Sincerest regards. Mike.

Have been following your various posts and ithink you are doing the right thing.but one key thing is to get off farm work and simplify you system at home as the returns aremodest at beef but yet you can easily fill you day with them.yes there is more money in cows but it is not easy and your case even more so and that will depress profitability in your dairy operation. I myself walk cows on the road every day almost and know the hassle it adds to a day but I love it so theres the difference

Greengrass1

Would you consider selling the dairy herd in spring? There would be a nice few bob out of that. You could do you building work with the money and either keep the calves you have or buy maiden heifers to go suckling with?

mike hilux

Once I get the calves out of them they will be sold if they are suitable or else fattened if the milk is low quality. I'm thinking of keeping 15 for a year or two for breeding replacements until the suckler herd can do it theirselves

milkprofit

Do not spend money on sheds if going into sucklers
Rent out farm and make do with she'd u have

Miname

best of luck with it, i have to say it takes guts to do what your doing but i can understand as theres nothing more that i hate than having to milk and luckily it hasnt been for years. I know lads are always giving out about sucklers but really they are like a drug only a harder habit to kick. I work full time and am calving down 45 this year. it can be done. i have the old man in fairness and he keeps an eye on cows calving doing the herding and great for sweeping round the yard. keep as few groups as possable and its a fair bit easier. theres no point waking up in twenty years and saying you hated them.