Ryanair 'Business' Fares

dubdaymo

Just tried to do some EI/FR comparisons selecting 6th October Day trip, first flight out, last home:

DUB-LGW-DUB

EI €317
FR €160

Couldn't compare DUB-BRU-DUB as FR fares not yet available but EI is €346 so assume FR may be close to €180.

Can loyalty ignore such a fare difference?

Jawgap

Hmmmm......can it be worth the €100 difference between a regular seat and the upgrade?

It would certainly make me consider upgrading especially for return legs at the end of the day, when a bit of comfort would be welcome.

It'll be interesting to see some feedback on the service.

LiamoSail

dubdaymo wrote: »

Just tried to do some EI/FR comparisons selecting 6th October Day trip, first flight out, last home:

DUB-LGW-DUB

EI €317
FR €160

Couldn't compare DUB-BRU-DUB as FR fares not yet available but EI is €346 so assume FR may be close to €180.

Can loyalty ignore such a fare difference?

I don't know about loyalty, but stupidity most certainly can.

Could understand if it were British Airways, but Aer Lingus aren't all that better then Ryanair these days

traprunner

dubdaymo wrote: »

Couldn't compare DUB-BRU-DUB as FR fares not yet available but EI is €346 so assume FR may be close to €180.

Can loyalty ignore such a fare difference?

No but our MEPs can because it's not their money.

ht9zni1gs28crp

Ryanair starting to lose my business. Their schedule into some UK airports is absolutely shocking, especially East Midlands. Once upon a time BMI Baby used to tick the DUB-EMA route over nicely.

Anyways, back on topic. Aer Lingus have been cheaper for my business trips into UK in recent times. So much so its first port of call now.

Yggr of Asgard

It's not business class, it's a fare type: http://www.ryanair.com/ie/business-plus/

It's comparable with Aer Lingus Flex Fare (minus the lounge option but with a fast track security service on some airports and a "premium seat" for which EI charges extra even with Flex Fare).

So when you compare prices you should compare business plus versus Flex Fare.

I think the fact that they allow a free of charge change of travel up to 40/60 minuntes before scheduled departure is a big selling point, especially as the free bag etc. will be honored on the new flight.

Beside Gold Circle and Lounge there is no reason to choose EI over FR and if the price difference is that big (as the OP has shown) one could even buy lounge access and save considerable money.

I think FR is on the right track here.

L1011

Jawgap wrote: »

Hmmmm......can it be worth the €100 difference between a regular seat and the upgrade?

As far as I can tell, it *is* a regular seat - its a flexfare package around it basically.

Don't expect the price differential to stay as great for long; considering that I often find EI are significantly cheaper to LGW, MAN and BHX to begin with under realistic booking conditions (flights I actually fly on, rather than looking for a big gap on a random date).

Jawgap

Had another look - it seems you can't book a 'regular' fare on one leg and a business fare on another - not without booking two one way tickets.

Senecio

If Ryanair continue to gain access to the primary airports in key EU cities they will quickly pick up market share in the business sector.

steve-o

dublin-texas wrote: »

I think the fact that they allow a free of charge change of travel up to 40/60 minuntes before scheduled departure is a big selling point

This bit is very misleading. There are no change fees, but you will need to pay the fare difference (typically €200 one way to the UK if you bought a cheap fare originally).

Yggr of Asgard

steve-o wrote: »

This bit is very misleading. There are no change fees, but you will need to pay the fare difference (typically €200 one way to the UK if you bought a cheap fare originally).

I don't think that is correct, if you change the flight on the day of depature (because you need a later or earlier flight) than you won't get charged any fare difference, as long as there is a seat.

The fare difference is as I read it only if you change the ticket at any other point than on the day of depature.

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/terms-and-conditions/regulations-businessplus/

steve-o

dublin-texas wrote: »

I don't think that is correct, if you change the flight on the day of depature (because you need a later or earlier flight) than you won't get charged any fare difference, as long as there is a seat.

The fare difference is as I read it only if you change the ticket at any other point than on the day of depature.

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/terms-and-conditions/regulations-businessplus/

That's not how I interpreted it on first reading, but I think you are right, although the suggestion of a free change of route leaves me confused.

owenc

Aw not AGAIN. Having visited America and actually SEEN what a TRUE business class service is, I find this laughable.

I personally am fed up of the second class service offered by European Airlines. I for one am fed up paying high fees only to get a pathetic economy seat with no seatback entertainment; may it be a 1 hour flight or a 6 hour flight. In the United States Jetblue has LIVE TV on small regional jets doing 30 minute flights alongside a legroom of 34 inches.

Yeah Europe needs to get a grip. Business class my head.

BuffyBot

In the US, they mostly have First Class...and the majority of those sitting there aren't paying full whack, if at all due to upgrades etc

It's but one of the many reasons most of the major airlines in the US have all been through bankruptcy in the last few years.

FR aren't claiming this to be business class, but a "business friendly" fare type.

Tenger

MYOB wrote: »

As far as I can tell, it *is* a regular seat - its a flexfare package around it basically......

dublin-texas wrote: »

It's not business class, it's a fare type: http://www.ryanair.com/ie/business-plus/
It's comparable with Aer Lingus Flex Fare (minus the lounge option but with a fast track security service on some airports and a "premium seat" for which EI charges extra even with Flex Fare).........
Beside Gold Circle and Lounge there is no reason to choose EI over FR and if the price difference is that big (as the OP has shown) one could even buy lounge access and save considerable money.
I think FR is on the right track here.

Spot on. FR are doing what EI did 2-3 years ago and introducing seperate 'fare families'. (Jetblue will introduce the same in the near future) However it is now up to EI to differentiate themselves by adding more to their flex fares. GC pints on ALL bookings regardless of actual price paid, better options in the lounge, maybe comp stuff onboard (even free hot/cold drinks?) or even more drastically the introduction of some level of Economy Plus product onboard?

owenc wrote: »

Aw not AGAIN. Having visited America and actually SEEN what a TRUE business class service is,......

Yeah Europe needs to get a grip. Business class my head.

FR and EI do not market or offer Business Class product on their shorthaul flights. So have you flown J Class with Lufthansa, Swiss, Iberia, Air France and BA? (to name the main players in relation to European J Class travel) after all you are criticising "Europe" and their "Business Class"

Yggr of Asgard

owenc wrote: »

Aw not AGAIN. Having visited America and actually SEEN what a TRUE business class service is, I find this laughable.

I personally am fed up of the second class service offered by European Airlines. I for one am fed up paying high fees only to get a pathetic economy seat with no seatback entertainment; may it be a 1 hour flight or a 6 hour flight. In the United States Jetblue has LIVE TV on small regional jets doing 30 minute flights alongside a legroom of 34 inches.

Yeah Europe needs to get a grip. Business class my head.

It's not business class, it's busines plus FARE, its still an ecco service with some extras that you usualy can purchase directly from the airline (seat, bag) or the airport (fast track) and flexibity included in the price.

It's similar to EI's Flex Fare.

FR has not introduced a business class and if you remember right, a couple of years ago Mr O'Leary offered free oral sex in business class should they introduce it.

All FR has done is introduced a different fare that includes some extras that is resonably priced, however you still might get all the extra's (without the flexibility) seperatly and it might work out cheaper, it's now more than ever that one needs to compare when booking a flight.

owenc

BuffyBot wrote: »

In the US, they mostly have First Class...and the majority of those sitting there aren't paying full whack, if at all due to upgrades etc

It's but one of the many reasons most of the major airlines in the US have all been through bankruptcy in the last few years.

FR aren't claiming this to be business class, but a "business friendly" fare type.

I know but there are some airlines who say they offer business but in reality all that is offered is an economy seat.

owenc

Tenger wrote: »

Spot on. FR are doing what EI did 2-3 years ago and introducing seperate 'fare families'. (Jetblue will introduce the same in the near future) However it is now up to EI to differentiate themselves by adding more to their flex fares. GC pints on ALL bookings regardless of actual price paid, better options in the lounge, maybe comp stuff onboard (even free hot/cold drinks?) or even more drastically the introduction of some level of Economy Plus product onboard?

FR and EI do not market or offer Business Class product on their shorthaul flights. So have you flown J Class with Lufthansa, Swiss, Iberia, Air France and BA? (to name the main players in relation to European J Class travel) after all you are criticising "Europe" and their "Business Class"

http://www.airreview.com/bmi/Fleet.htm

Yggr of Asgard

owenc wrote: »

http://www.airreview.com/bmi/Fleet.htm

BMI is not existing anymore which should tell you something about their viability. Sure a lot of that trouble was home made for them with their funny share holdings and Sir Michael Bishop's involvement. Arghh.. I miss BMI.

owenc wrote: »

I know but there are some airlines who say they offer business but in reality all that is offered is an economy seat.

Now on most shorthaul routes classic carries offer a business class product that has a better service offering but are as you rightfully point out are mostly ecco seats with the middle seat being left free (BA, LH, LX, IB).

There are some like TK which offer different seating on their short haul route (and the seats are actualy nice for the 4 hour trip to Istanbul) on some of their aircrafts (and lucky the DUB route is one of those).

But there are also those flag carriers which stopped Business class short haul like SK which is offering enhanced fares with some better service.

Generally the trend is to an all ecco hard product (which is where LH goes with 4U) with different fare offerings (just like EI/FR) which offers add-ons included including some better soft service on board.

In the US your "business class" example is not really true for short hauls, they might offer first but they do this mostly to satisfy their frequent flyers (which now mostly go revenue model instead of milage). Most of first class is full of people which did not pay the better fare but are upgraded, use vouchers or get first class because of their business.

Transcon (i.e. long haul) there is obviously first/bussiness/ecco same as european carriers use on their long haul, but most short haul services only offer first/ecco.

Jet Blue is a different story, they are going the opposite way with the introduction of MINT, their premium product which is more like long haul business/first class. And yes Jet Blue has a nice ecco offering too.

For a flight to the continent (aka short haul) offering different seats will make the flight way more expensive, not to mention going to the UK in a premium class attracts the outrages ripp off goverment charges.

Most airlines go down to all ecco on short haul (and with the next financial crisis arround the corner they must) while they try to up the service on their long haul services. Most european airlines only offer business on short haul to use them as feeder into their long haul network. LH has left LH flights on their main HUBS (DUB-FRA/DUB-MUC) while what is going to non hubs is becoming 4U with all ecco service.

It's not making profit for airlines having a seperate hardware in Business for short/medium haul.

I remember when LH has First/Business/Ecco for intra german flights, now that were times.

owenc

Well United airlines have business seats on all domestic flights, its not just transcon flights obviously.

Yggr of Asgard

owenc wrote: »

Well United airlines have business seats on all domestic flights, its not just transcon flights obviously.

On short haul they have United First which are separate seats, yes but again most people did not pay for those. I never said they don't have seperate hardware.

Transcon they have First/Business/Ecco or even their PS product, but again transcon is more like our long haul.

But those classic airlines have a different requirement. You won't find special seats on Southwest (which is comparable to Ryanair).

L1011

I was on a United 737-900 with 19 upgrades and 1 paying passenger for United First. Its nothing other than a loyalty reward rather than a revenue source.

Meant that I got one of said upgrade people's Economy Plus seat free though

christy c

The press are taking kindly to it:

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/08/27/drug-mule-welcomes-ryanairs-business-class/

Hope the link works

whitebriar

dubdaymo wrote: »

Just tried to do some EI/FR comparisons selecting 6th October Day trip, first flight out, last home:

DUB-LGW-DUB

EI €317
FR €160

Couldn't compare DUB-BRU-DUB as FR fares not yet available but EI is €346 so assume FR may be close to €180.

Can loyalty ignore such a fare difference?

proper business class on BA can be had for €265 into T5 from October 26th,Galleries club lounges on the return trip or galleries F if you are BA gold and obviously lots of food and booze both in the lounges and on board as well as avios,a currency far far more valuable than Gold circle.
It's not a fully flex fare though but much better value than €317 if you know you are not going to miss your flight as is mostly the case.

whitebriar

owenc wrote: »

Aw not AGAIN. Having visited America and actually SEEN what a TRUE business class service is, I find this laughable.

I personally am fed up of the second class service offered by European Airlines. I for one am fed up paying high fees only to get a pathetic economy seat with no seatback entertainment; may it be a 1 hour flight or a 6 hour flight. In the United States Jetblue has LIVE TV on small regional jets doing 30 minute flights alongside a legroom of 34 inches.

Yeah Europe needs to get a grip. Business class my head.

You really really do need more experience of U.S airline's business class before you can claim to speak with that kind of authority.
On flights the length of Dublin London in the states and longer,U.S airlines first class will give you a packet of peanuts if you are lucky.
Flights over 3 hrs feed you alright and most transcontinental have fully flat seats.
Yes jet blue has live tv but the satellite technology or tv rights do not exist for that service elsewhere.
I'm speaking as someone who has been on all the major U.S carriers up front and down the back and like Buffybot have a BA gold card so both of us know quite a bit about what that entitles you to in the States.
In the states we get free access to AA and U.S lounges whilst on domestic U.S flights with them.
Top tier Members of the U.S frequent flyer schemes have to pay...


So now...you were saying?

smurfjed

Having visited America and actually SEEN what a TRUE business class service is

Where did you find it? And how many airlines have you flown on in Business class to be able to compare it?

Zascar

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/business-plus/?cmpid=emailie140827

The site says:
Flexibility on ticket changes*
Unlimited flight changes
Free changes on the day of travel

But does this mean it will always be free or will they charge you extra if the new fare is more??

Yggr of Asgard

Zascar wrote: »

http://www.ryanair.com/ie/business-plus/?cmpid=emailie140827

The site says:
Flexibility on ticket changes*
Unlimited flight changes
Free changes on the day of travel

But does this mean it will always be free or will they charge you extra if the new fare is more??

The link you provided has a link to the T&C http://www.ryanair.com/ie/terms-and-conditions/regulations-businessplus/

In my interpretation changes on the day of travel do not result in any charges or fare adjustments as long as a seat is available.

However changes before the day of travel could result in paying a fare difference (without any additional charges).

But i guess until the first person tries it and reports it back it's as usual with Ryanair: YMMV depending on the agent you deal with.

owenc

whitebriar wrote: »

You really really do need more experience of U.S airline's business class before you can claim to speak with that kind of authority.
On flights the length of Dublin London in the states and longer,U.S airlines first class will give you a packet of peanuts if you are lucky.
Flights over 3 hrs feed you alright and most transcontinental have fully flat seats.
Yes jet blue has live tv but the satellite technology or tv rights do not exist for that service elsewhere.
I'm speaking as someone who has been on all the major U.S carriers up front and down the back and like Buffybot have a BA gold card so both of us know quite a bit about what that entitles you to in the States.
In the states we get free access to AA and U.S lounges whilst on domestic U.S flights with them.
Top tier Members of the U.S frequent flyer schemes have to pay...


So now...you were saying?

I'd rather have a business class seat and televisions than access to a lounge.

Yggr of Asgard

owenc wrote: »

I'd rather have a business class seat and televisions than access to a lounge.

And I prefer GA First but unfortunatly they don't offer that on short haul, so I can only look forward when they start flying from LGW. Now that is true first class, best flight of my life (AMS to CKG).

The difference is that FR are catering to business travelers by offering them a better soft service on the same hardware product like everybody else, just like EI.

In the US First is used as reward for loyality, in the EU business class is used to allow long distance premium travelers a slightly better experience when they are feed into the long haul hub and also to catch those lucky few ones that still are allowed to fly business on short haul. The concept / goal is different.

Preset No.3

Jet Blue and Virgin are the exception to the rule about legroom, PTV etc. they are the young ones on the IKC and had to offer something different than legacy carriers to gain market share.

On Delta/AA/US/United, you will get a bigger seat, a drink in a glass, a form of 'meal' in business class but very few have PTV's, lie flat beds etc unless you are on one of the main routes JFK-LAX etc.

I have a delta flight booked. Lie flat across the pond but then I'm in an MD88 down to Orlando.

whitebriar

owenc wrote: »

I'd rather have a business class seat and televisions than access to a lounge.

You may need to create your own airline then because most if not all people flying for business value good lounges and airmiles as opposed to inflight tv.
Domestic F in the States under 2hrs have fairly ordinary seats by the way.
Inflight live tv is still the exception not the norm on short haul in the states and its not available once you leave U.S airspace.
BA club Europe block the middle seats on Dub LHR making for a better roomier short haul business class seat in my experience than the equivalent in America.You get fed too.
What you want/rant about is fairly removed from real life airline customers it seems.


But anyhow back on topic and as others have rightly said FR's new product is more of flexible economy product and imho will fly if the price point and importantly the schedules suit.

christy c

Preset No.3 wrote: »

but then I'm in an MD88 down to Orlando.

Jealous. I'd sit on a timber box if I was on a MD

Tenger

owenc wrote: »

I'd rather have a business class seat and televisions than access to a lounge.

Which is not indicative of a 'business' traveler.....your desires are more in line with a 'leisure' traveler. Business travelers like the lounge as it allows them space to work while waiting for a flight, inflight they prefer space to use laptops and work with hardcopy. They also like to be acknowledged as members of an airline loyalty program.

kevinandrew

dublin-texas wrote: »

It's comparable with Aer Lingus Flex Fare (minus the lounge option but with a fast track security service on some airports and a "premium seat" for which EI charges extra even with Flex Fare).

The Aer Lingus Flex Fare allows you to sit anywhere on the aircraft free of charge, whether that's the first few rows or the exit rows, the Plus Fare gives you free seat selection on the majority of seats and the so call premium seats are discounted. The Ryanair Business Fare is based somewhere between the Aer Lingus Plus Fare and Flex Fare.

Ryanair 'Business Plus' fare:

Flexibility on ticket changes
20kg checked-in bag allowance
Fast track airport security at selected airports
Priority boarding
Premium seats

//

Aer Lingus 'Plus' fare:

Free seat selection on selected seats
1 Checked bag up to 20kg free

Aer Lingus 'Flex' fare:

Free time changes
Free date changes
Refundable ticket
1x20kg checked bag free of charge
Seat selection free of charge
Late Check-in fee waived
Gold Circle Points
Combine Flex Fare with Low Fare ticket
Business Lounge access

It's nothing new and nothing special but the fare is very competitive for what you're getting, a wake up for Aer Lingus and other airlines that will have to respond but are in a good position to do so.