Golf Club - Best Practices

Freemount09

Hi all,

Can we make a list of the best practices / rules operated by golf clubs.

I like the practice of not being able to enter a score at least 90 mins after sign in that was mentioned in other thread.

I saw a rule posted in a locker-room before stating that all NR's resulted in removal from the competition, and no 0.1 would be added to the players h/c.

What other local rules and practices have you seen that could be implemented in all clubs that would be good for the clubs and golf in general.

hades

One rule that we have involves winter competitions when there's no offical handicap adjustments. The club generally gives out GUI vouchers as prizes, so for every €50 you win you're cut 0.5.

This was to prevent the usual bandits, essentially winning their membership costs every year during the winter.

Senna

I liked the idea of payment for a comp taken when you book your tee time, would stop a lot of people who book, then don't bother playing.

DuckSlice

hades wrote: »

One rule that we have involves winter competitions when there's no offical handicap adjustments. The club generally gives out GUI vouchers as prizes, so for every €50 you win you're cut 0.5.

This was to prevent the usual bandits, essentially winning their membership costs every year during the winter.

Can they actually do this?

SaveOurLyric

Freemount09 wrote: »

I saw a rule posted in a locker-room before stating that all NR's resulted in removal from the competition, and no 0.1 would be added to the players h/c.

hades wrote: »

One rule that we have involves winter competitions when there's no offical handicap adjustments. The club generally gives out GUI vouchers as prizes, so for every €50 you win you're cut 0.5.

Really ?!?!?

You cannot do that. They are not 'local rules' as in local modifications of the R&A Rules of Golf.

They are incorrect off-piste taking the law of Congu handicaps into your own hands.

What clubs are these. Does the GUI know about this ?

I am outrage I tell you. Outraged.

e.r

Senna wrote: »

I liked the idea of payment for a comp taken when you book your tee time, would stop a lot of people who book, then don't bother playing.

Great idea

Golfnut77

hades wrote: »

One rule that we have involves winter competitions when there's no offical handicap adjustments. The club generally gives out GUI vouchers as prizes, so for every €50 you win you're cut 0.5.

This was to prevent the usual bandits, essentially winning their membership costs every year during the winter.

etxp wrote: »

Can they actually do this?

I imagine that they are temporary reductions and go back to their normal handicap when winter rules end. It's standard practice in most clubs I don't know why one wouldn't do it, it makes sense otherwise a guy can clean up for the winter playing off the same handicap if none of the competitions qualify for handicap purposes.

tayto lover

etxp wrote: »

Can they actually do this?

In my club if you don't turn up for the Sunday competition you are suspended for the following Sunday and you have to pay the fee for the competition you didn't turn up for.

markthespark77

tayto lover wrote: »

In my club if you don't turn up for the Sunday competition you are suspended for the following Sunday and you have to pay the fee for the competition you didn't turn up for.

thats a great idea, can't stand it when the time sheet is full, then it ends up with a load of 2 balls mixed in with the 4 balls who actually showed up..

hades

etxp wrote: »

Can they actually do this?

As mentioned above, its a temporary club handicap reduction, doesn't affect your actual GUI handicap and when the counting competitions come in, you revert back to your normal handicap.

Dr_Colossus

hades wrote: »

As mentioned above, its a temporary club handicap reduction, doesn't affect your actual GUI handicap and when the counting competitions come in, you revert back to your normal handicap.

Sounds like a great idea, is it taken that extra step where winter handicap reductions are used to influence general play reductions at year end? Would help even the playing field for those bandits that spend the summer playing team events of their over inflated handicaps and the winter then cleaning up in singles.

GreeBo

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea, is it taken that extra step where winter handicap reductions are used to influence general play reductions at year end? Would help even the playing field for those bandits that spend the summer playing team events of their over inflated handicaps and the winter then cleaning up in singles.

You cant compare winter conditions (short course, placing everywhere) with summer conditions. Night and day (literally!)

Our competition entry is all done on BRS, if you dont cancel the day before your slot you get charged anyway.

hades

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Sounds like a great idea, is it taken that extra step where winter handicap reductions are used to influence general play reductions at year end? Would help even the playing field for those bandits that spend the summer playing team events of their over inflated handicaps and the winter then cleaning up in singles.

As far as i'm aware, its never used to adjust for general play reductions.

Senna

GreeBo wrote: »

Our competition entry is all done on BRS, if you dont cancel the day before your slot you get charged anyway.

Charged after you dont show up, or charged at the time of booking?

GreeBo

Senna wrote: »

Charged after you dont show up, or charged at the time of booking?

All charged from midnight the day before.

Wichita Lineman

Use a tee on par 3's to protect the tee boxes.
Swap cards before play starts.

GreeBo

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

Use a tee on par 3's to protect the tee boxes.
Swap cards before play starts.

For the vast majority of players a tee or not makes no difference to the divot created on a tee box.

TheDoc

An NR in our club involves a DQ obviously, but also automatic .1 I thought that was a GUI thing, didn't think it was local. Sure thats a surefire way of lads meddling with scores especially around times when team clubs are being picked.

I know a local rule we have now is if you NR a few times in a row ( cant remember the number) you are disqualified from competition player for like two weeks.

I have plenty of NR's in a year, when I'm playing horrible and couldn't be arsed so I leave, but have to say it's made me stay out where I'd normally leave. Not that I enjoy it, or find it in anyway beneficial other then wasting another two hours of my day, but seems to work.

I think we also have the temporary handicap for winter, not sure though as I hibernate from golf over winter.

Russman

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

those bandits that spend the summer playing team events of their over inflated handicaps and the winter then cleaning up in singles.

And how many of them are there, really ?

Russman

TheDoc wrote: »

An NR in our club involves a DQ obviously, but also automatic .1 I thought that was a GUI thing, didn't think it was local. Sure thats a surefire way of lads meddling with scores especially around times when team clubs are being picked.

I know a local rule we have now is if you NR a few times in a row ( cant remember the number) you are disqualified from competition player for like two weeks.

I have plenty of NR's in a year, when I'm playing horrible and couldn't be arsed so I leave, but have to say it's made me stay out where I'd normally leave. Not that I enjoy it, or find it in anyway beneficial other then wasting another two hours of my day, but seems to work.

I think we also have the temporary handicap for winter, not sure though as I hibernate from golf over winter.

Totally agree that an NR should be an automatic 0.1
Problem is, there's a lot of work involved in policing it.

Arsenium

Russman wrote: »

Totally agree that an NR should be an automatic 0.1
Problem is, there's a lot of work involved in policing it.

Is that not the rule? And isnt there a proposal to remove it, as mentioned on another thread some time back.

Why is it difficult to police? If you are signed in, and dont return a card, does it not automatically apply the 0.1? Assuming you sign in on the computer that is I guess.

Russman

Arsenium wrote: »

Is that not the rule? And isnt there a proposal to remove it, as mentioned on another thread some time back.

Why is it difficult to police? If you are signed in, and dont return a card, does it not automatically apply the 0.1? Assuming you sign in on the computer that is I guess.

Exactly. I know in our place, you pay in the shop but the computer is in the hall so guys can easily not sign in and see how their round goes before deciding to enter on the computer. Having the computer in the shop would help, but it would mean the shop has to be open very late in the summer evenings.

Freemount09

Think the sign I saw, was to ensure everyone returned a card. They didn't get DQ'd they got removed from the competiton, so it was like they never existed in the comp.

I presumed to try to ensure the CSS was calculated as accurately as possible, and also stop people paying a fiver and just building up their hc for a big comp ?

I thought it was a good rule?

GreeBo

Freemount09 wrote: »

Think the sign I saw, was to ensure everyone returned a card. They didn't get DQ'd they got removed from the competiton, so it was like they never existed in the comp.

I presumed to try to ensure the CSS was calculated as accurately as possible, and also stop people paying a fiver and just building up their hc for a big comp ?

I thought it was a good rule?

Not returning a bad card breaks how CSS is calculated.
Think about it, try to get a cut with an average round if only the good rounds are submitted to CSS!

Arsenium

GreeBo wrote: »

Not returning a bad card breaks how CSS is calculated.
Think about it, try to get a cut with an average round if only the good rounds are submitted to CSS!

CSS is still a big mystery to me but from reading up on it before I recall coming to the conclusion that CSS gets broken by NR's only if the NR's are either in the buffer or better? It depends on the % of the field with a nett of SSS +2 or better. So a card that is not returned because of a poor score doesnt impact CSS. Its only NR's from players with good scores that break it.

As I understand it...

GreeBo

Arsenium wrote: »

CSS is still a big mystery to me but from reading up on it before I recall coming to the conclusion that CSS gets broken by NR's only if the NR's are either in the buffer or better? It depends on the % of the field with a nett of SSS +2 or better. So a card that is not returned because of a poor score doesnt impact CSS. Its only NR's from players with good scores that break it.

As I understand it...

What about guys who are a couple of shots outside their buffer?
A couple of guys off scratch having a 5 over says a lot more about the conditions than a 20 handicap golfer.

In all cases its better to submit your true score so the CSS formula gets to decide on whether or not your score is pertinent or not.

Russman

Arsenium wrote: »

CSS is still a big mystery to me but from reading up on it before I recall coming to the conclusion that CSS gets broken by NR's only if the NR's are either in the buffer or better? It depends on the % of the field with a nett of SSS +2 or better. So a card that is not returned because of a poor score doesnt impact CSS. Its only NR's from players with good scores that break it.

As I understand it...

But, if more cards are returned, that percentage will change, no ?

Arsenium

GreeBo wrote: »

What about guys who are a couple of shots outside their buffer?
A couple of guys off scratch having a 5 over says a lot more about the conditions than a 20 handicap golfer.

In all cases its better to submit your true score so the CSS formula gets to decide on whether or not your score is pertinent or not.

I agree fully. All cards should be returned. It's the only way to ensure an accurate reflection of how you are playing currently. Just for CSS, I am not fully sure of the formula that is used but in the example you give, I dont think those guys scores would be considered when calculating it, pertinent though they may be.

GreeBo

Arsenium wrote: »

I agree fully. All cards should be returned. It's the only way to ensure an accurate reflection of how you are playing currently. Just for CSS, I am not fully sure of the formula that is used but in the example you give, I dont think those guys scores would be considered when calculating it, pertinent though they may be.

I guess thats my point, if they are in as NR then they are excluded, but if the actual score is in then it may yield a different result?

Arsenium

Russman wrote: »

But, if more cards are returned, that percentage will change, no ?

So long as they are within SSS +2 or better then the % will change. As in good scores.

If someone with SSS+18 doesnt return their card, they are not impacting how CSS is calculated. As long as they have signed in.

So it's only good scores not being returned that breaks CSS, failing to return a bad score does not.

GreeBo

Arsenium wrote: »

So long as they are within SSS +2 or better then the % will change. As in good scores.

If someone with SSS+18 doesnt return their card, they are not impacting how CSS is calculated. As long as they have signed in.

So it's only good scores not being returned that breaks CSS, failing to return a bad score does not.

Well the signing in, as in a record of them entering, is important.
One of the points was the people who enter after the comp, only if they do well.

PARlance

Arsenium wrote: »

So long as they are within SSS +2 or better then the % will change. As in good scores.

If someone with SSS+18 doesnt return their card, they are not impacting how CSS is calculated. As long as they have signed in.

So it's only good scores not being returned that breaks CSS, failing to return a bad score does not.

I think a NR does impact it as Russman says.

Suppose there are 10 Cat 1's in comp.
2 score SSS +2 or better. 8 don't obviously.
If all 10 return then SSS+2 or better is 20%. (2/10)
If 2 bad scores don't, then SSS+2 or better is now 25%. (2/8)

That's my understanding of it. Open to correction though.

Freemount09

So this was a good local rule so ? to try to ensure there are no NR's !?? yes ??

GreeBo

Freemount09 wrote: »

So this was a good local rule so ? to try to ensure there are no NR's !?? yes ??

I think an NR should result in being banned from the next comp, unless the player can provide a good reason.

Freemount09

What good reason is there though !??

Its usually the same ol people each week who don't return their cards. Looking at results recently on HDID there was more than 10% of the field on a given day had NR's

Good luck trying to ban someone from next wks comp !?

The paying comp entry through BRS wallet is good to deter dropouts and timesheet hoggers.

Arsenium

PARlance wrote: »

I think a NR does impact it as Russman says.

Suppose there are 10 Cat 1's in comp.
2 score SSS +2 or better. 8 don't obviously.
If all 10 return then SSS+2 or better is 20%. (2/10)
If 2 bad scores don't, then SSS+2 or better is now 25%. (2/8)

That's my understanding of it. Open to correction though.

Oh. My understanding of the % is that it is measured on the number of players in the competition (signed in).

So 100 enter the comp. 20 return a score of SSS+2 or better. % is 20% (for ease of example). So the other 80 dont count as far as CSS is concerned. If, out of those 80 cards, 10 of them are NRs for bad scores, then even if they were considered, the % would still be 20%.

However if, out of those 80 cards, 10 of them were NRs because of good scores, the correct % should be 30% but as a result of not returning, it stays at 20%.

So I suppose the question is, what % are we talking about here. The number of scores in SSS+2 as a % of all the signed in players, or as a % of the returned scores?

TheDoc

GreeBo wrote: »

I think an NR should result in being banned from the next comp, unless the player can provide a good reason.

I think a strong arguement is that a competitor has the right to withdraw him/herself from competition. While it's ****ty if your playing with strangers and leave the group who will be caught behind traffic, that's more an "ethics" issue.

our club has a like three strikes your out sort of thing. But if I got removed from competition for an NR, I'd be taking the matter as far as I could.

Russman

Arsenium wrote: »

Oh. My understanding of the % is that it is measured on the number of players in the competition (signed in).

So 100 enter the comp. 20 return a score of SSS+2 or better. % is 20% (for ease of example). So the other 80 dont count as far as CSS is concerned. If, out of those 80 cards, 10 of them are NRs for bad scores, then even if they were considered, the % would still be 20%.

However if, out of those 80 cards, 10 of them were NRs because of good scores, the correct % should be 30% but as a result of not returning, it stays at 20%.

So I suppose the question is, what % are we talking about here. The number of scores in SSS+2 as a % of all the signed in players, or as a % of the returned scores?

I would imagine, although open to correction, that its returned scores (ie entered on the computer). Can't see the logic of basing a calculation on the number of entries - obviously they should be the same, but "should" is the operative word, I'd say the calculation is worked to exclude that potential doubt.

Arsenium

The mechanics of the CSS calculation are:
- Establish the composition of the ‘field’ as a percentage of each handicap
category excluding category 4 for men or category 5 for ladies. e.g. 10% Cat.1
50% Cat.2 40% Cat3[[+ Cat. 4 for Ladies]
- Establish the percentage of the ‘field’ (Cat.1 + Cat.2 + Cat.3 [+ Cat.4]) with a
Net score of the SSS +2 or better e.g. 20%
- Refer to Appendix B Competition Scratch Score Table
- Using this example the CSS would be the SSS +1.

From the CONGU definition. Not sure if it clarifies it much :-) Any handicap secretaries on here???

Russman

TheDoc wrote: »

our club has a like three strikes your out sort of thing. But if I got removed from competition for an NR, I'd be taking the matter as far as I could.

Do you mean an NR as in not returning a card at all, or an NR as in entering "no score on hole" on the computer, but still returning your card ?
Big difference IMO.

Is it not one of the players responsibilities to return all cards ?

Anyone can drive home and find their card still in their pocket, happened to me about two weeks ago ! So I think 3 strikes and you're out is fine, ie 3 cards not returned and handicap suspended for 3 weeks or something.

Dr_Colossus

GreeBo wrote: »

I think an NR should result in being banned from the next comp, unless the player can provide a good reason.

TheDoc wrote: »

I think a strong arguement is that a competitor has the right to withdraw him/herself from competition. While it's ****ty if your playing with strangers and leave the group who will be caught behind traffic, that's more an "ethics" issue.

our club has a like three strikes your out sort of thing. But if I got removed from competition for an NR, I'd be taking the matter as far as I could.

I side with GreeBo on above, barring injury or medical condition I can't see why someone should withdraw themselves from competition. Once you sign up to play the competition you should finish regardless of form and conditions.

I've played in some horrendous conditions and on occasion when the weather made the course(s) borderline unplayable but have never once withdrawn from competition. On the other hand I've played with plenty of playing partners who've walked off the course either because they weren't playing great or the conditions got tough and to their disliking. I've tried persuading them to keep playing and on one occasion during a 36 hole scratch cup had an awful job trying to convince the two people I was paired with to continue mid way through the second round when it became very wet. That wasn't a pleasant round as one of them in particular mentioned a few times how I wasn't playing good golf and wasn't going to win so why was I continuing and in turn keeping them on the course.

My motto is once you're down to play the competition finish out the round and try and eek out every point or score you can.

tayto lover

GreeBo wrote: »

For the vast majority of players a tee or not makes no difference to the divot created on a tee box.

We have to take bags of quick growing seed mixed with soil when we go out. We repair divots, both ours and those not fixed by other players. We have a stand with rows of filled bags at the first tee plus boxes full of this stuff at every third tee-box.

You wouldn't believe the benefit to the course this has.

FixdePitchmark

Dr Colossus.

I'd be of your way of thinking and never walk on someone.

But in Ireland we all have to accept that certain days when say you have 12 points after 15 . There comes an end point for the majority, in extreme conditions .

bustercherry

Andy Dunne11 wrote: »

Use a tee on par 3's to protect the tee boxes.
Swap cards before play starts.

Utter nonsense. If hitting an iron on the tee box, it will be tee'd down low and you still take a divot. This sort of stuff really gets on my nerves :mad:

If clubs are that bothered about their tee boxes, provide some divot mix.

GreeBo

tayto lover wrote: »

We have to take bags of quick growing seed mixed with soil when we go out. We repair divots, both ours and those not fixed by other players. We have a stand with rows of filled bags at the first tee plus boxes full of this stuff at every third tee-box.

You wouldn't believe the benefit to the course this has.

We do too, but that has no bearing on teeing it up on a tee box or not

I often see people take a bag of sand and then bring it back full "because they didnt take many divots"
Its not there for the journey, fill any you see people!

GreeBo

TheDoc wrote: »

I think a strong arguement is that a competitor has the right to withdraw him/herself from competition. While it's ****ty if your playing with strangers and leave the group who will be caught behind traffic, that's more an "ethics" issue.

our club has a like three strikes your out sort of thing. But if I got removed from competition for an NR, I'd be taking the matter as far as I could.

If they are the rules of your competition then as far as you could isn't very far.
Why would you NR without a good reason?

CONGU wise you can withdraw etc if you want, but from a club competition point of view, you can deem this a punishable offence.

SaveOurLyric

GreeBo wrote: »

If they are the rules of your competition then as far as you could isn't very far.

Indeed. Its as far as.....all the way to the committee that makes the rules. They are probably going to rule in their own favour.........

TrapperChamonix

GreeBo wrote: »

We do too, but that has no bearing on teeing it up on a tee box or not

I often see people take a bag of sand and then bring it back full "because they didnt take many divots"
Its not there for the journey, fill any you see people!

The more I fill in divots the less likely I am to land in one myself. Every time you take a divot, repair 2.
If you are carrying clubs the a full divot bag is too heavy as it swings off the bag, so have more boxes on the tees to refill your divot bag as you go along.

Also pitchmarks
1. Carry a pitch repair tool.
2. Learn how to repair correctly (incorrect repairs do more damage)
3. Repair your pitchmark.
4. Repair 1 additional pitchmark

blackwhite

tayto lover wrote: »

We have to take bags of quick growing seed mixed with soil when we go out. We repair divots, both ours and those not fixed by other players. We have a stand with rows of filled bags at the first tee plus boxes full of this stuff at every third tee-box.

You wouldn't believe the benefit to the course this has.

We have divot bags with seeded mix by the first tee, and usually a refill bin at the 10th.
It isn't compulsory to take one, but I think it'd be a great idea to make it a rule.

bustercherry

blackwhite wrote: »

We have divot bags with seeded mix by the first tee, and usually a refill bin at the 10th.
It isn't compulsory to take one, but I think it'd be a great idea to make it a rule.

You can't make it a rule as people carry clubs and it's unfair to add a weight penalty. It's not horse racing.

TrapperChamonix

bustercherry wrote: »

You can't make it a rule as people carry clubs and it's unfair to add a weight penalty. It's not horse racing.

Yes you can. It is compulsory in my course and signs erected informing all players.
If I'm carrying clubs, I empty 1/2 the mix out and then refill on the 10th. My issue with this is that with 1/2 a bag, I wouldn't have enough mix to fix divots other than my own. If they had the re bill boxes on every 3rd tee, would be better.
Its really not that much of an imposition.