Am I liable for NPPR?

fricatus

A friend of mine has told me I may be liable for the NPPR charge, even though I had understood that the property tax I paid in 2013 covered this.

This is basically the situation:
June 2006 - bought smaller house and lived there until 2013
January 2013 - bought larger house with my wife and began renovations
April 2013 - moved into larger house
June 2013 to present - let out smaller house to tenant

I paid property tax in 2013 and 2014 for both properties.

I've contacted the local authority and I'm waiting on their answer now, but does anyone know whether I am going to have to pay this?

amdublin

Info here
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/new_local_authority_charges_on_residential_property.html

From my reading the NPPR was due in 2013 (plus property tax).
From 2014 onwards just property tax.

MouseTail

Yes, I think you owe it for 2013

fricatus

That was what I thought from reading up on it as well... thanks lads.

I'm going to have to pay bloody penalties on it now too, right? What's that, double? triple? taxation! Stamp duty, property tax, income tax on rental and now this... rrrrrr!!!

Fúcking government! :mad:

athtrasna

fricatus wrote: »

That was what I thought from reading up on it as well... thanks lads.

I'm going to have to pay bloody penalties on it now too, right? What's that, double? triple? taxation! Stamp duty, property tax, income tax on rental and now this... rrrrrr!!!

Fúcking government! :mad:

Not the government 's fault you didn't make yourself aware of your legal obligations

MouseTail

athtrasna wrote: »

Not the government 's fault you didn't make yourself aware of your legal obligations

And you owe your friend a nice bottle of wine, it would have jumped from €380 to €750 had you left it til September.

athtrasna

BTW Only six month's property tax was payable in 2013 so the overlap isn't as bad as you think.

Citizenpain

Was the new larger house habitable on 31st march 2013?

fricatus

athtrasna wrote: »

Not the government 's fault you didn't make yourself aware of your legal obligations

Maybe not, but it is the government's fault if their communication is poor and the information they provide is misleading. I looked into it back around the time we were moving and came to the conclusion that I wasn't liable.

These things have to be crystal clear. In my case I was dealing with builders, suppliers and mortgage drawdowns at the time, not to mention the fact that I also had a day job and a newborn to worry about. Now that I have more headspace, I've come to a different conclusion, presumably based on the same information. Even at that, I had to read through the website for about half an hour to figure it out. What does that tell you?

You can say I'm making excuses for myself, but the tax system has to be designed for dummies, as people make mistakes.

Citizenpain wrote: »

Was the new larger house habitable on 31st march 2013?

No... would that make a difference? Could I argue that on the liability date only the first house was habitable?

MouseTail

fricatus wrote: »

No... would that make a difference? Could I argue that on the liability date only the first house was habitable?

Yes, but I am not sure how you would prove it retrospectively. At the time I had to get datestamped photos, proof there was no electricity, water or sanitation, and get them witnessed by An Gardaí before applying for an exemption.
Best to contact your relevant Local Authority to ask what proof they require, generally they require proof of a number of the below
Unsound roof
No electricity
No water or sanitation
No windows or doors
Severe dampness

athtrasna

fricatus wrote: »

Maybe not, but it is the government's fault if their communication is poor and the information they provide is misleading. I looked into it back around the time we were moving and came to the conclusion that I wasn't liable.

These things have to be crystal clear. In my case I was dealing with builders, suppliers and mortgage drawdowns at the time, not to mention the fact that I also had a day job and a newborn to worry about. Now that I have more headspace, I've come to a different conclusion, presumably based on the same information. Even at that, I had to read through the website for about half an hour to figure it out. What does that tell you?

You can say I'm making excuses for myself, but the tax system has to be designed for dummies, as people make mistakes.




No... would that make a difference? Could I argue that on the liability date only the first house was habitable?

NPPR is council not government

fricatus

athtrasna wrote: »

NPPR is council not government

Local government is still government. I stand by my earlier criticism, including the swear word!

Gautama

Yes, you are liable for NPPR in 2013.
As with all taxations matters, it's your responsibility to be informed, no one else's.
The average PAYE worker tends to take these things for granted, ie, that the state will take charge and deduct/demand taxes as legislated.
Just as well there is a PAYE system, otherwise the country would have been bankrupt long ago.

I don't want to sound condescending here, the the old maxim is oft repeated because it's true: "ignorance is no defence".
Anyone that pays tax outside the PAYE system (sale/rental of property, share sale/dividends/, etc.) is only to aware of this.

fricatus

Well the council have been back to me, and I have to pay €380 on the new house as it was not our principal residence on the liability date.

At least I know what I have to pay now and can just get on with bending over and letting Bubba government have his fun. :rolleyes:

MouseTail wrote: »

Yes, but I am not sure how you would prove it retrospectively. At the time I had to get datestamped photos, proof there was no electricity, water or sanitation, and get them witnessed by An Gardaí before applying for an exemption.
Best to contact your relevant Local Authority to ask what proof they require, generally they require proof of a number of the below
Unsound roof
No electricity
No water or sanitation
No windows or doors
Severe dampness

Yeah, the lady mentioned those items that you listed all right. Having builders still on the premises fitting out the floors, skirts, etc. is deemed sufficiently habitable for the NPPR, so there's no way of wriggling out of it.

Thanks all for your help anyway!