What type of player do you want to be?

GreeBo

So, given that there are many ways to approach this game, what type of golfer are you trying to be?

Norfolk Enchants_

Definitely an anything can happen and it usually does, I'd like to be able to eagle a difficult par 4 with a holed out 3 iron from 209 yards and then top my down the next fairway, for the craic like.

SaveOurLyric

GreeBo wrote: »

Solid off your handicap, typically in or around buffer

Good grief Greebo.............

ForeRight

What???

Dr_Colossus

Variable for me. Solid would be nice if of a low hanicap but kind of indicates a plateau with handicap cuts few and far between. Variable with a +/- 3 shot of buffer variation is reasonably consistent but with enough potential to be competitive and further lower handicap especially if you can work on tightening up a few disaster holes.

SaveOurLyric

ForeRight wrote: »

What???

My reaction exactly. I though we had made some progress, at least for the handful reading here, on this topic over the last few weeks.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056759176&page=10

Whats the motivation Greebo; to see how many people's expectations are out of whack with reality, an idea to change the handicap system, or just, in our utopia, how would we like the golf handicap system to be ?

cairny

There's a fella in our club who has been no higher than 5 for the last 30 years, as he's gotten older he's changed clubs and strategy and managed to stay there, he's very rarely in the prizes but I'd love to be that type of player.....just off a lower handicap than my own.

Dayor Knight

GreeBo wrote: »

So, given that there are many ways to approach this game, what type of golfer are you trying to be?

Better. And enjoying it.

Rikand

To not be a bandit

FixdePitchmark

I don't know yet
Want to end up near the top 2 options.

But sadly at the moment I'm the bottom two wild and anything can happen.

So still trying to find out.

Spoke to a lad out west recently. He said to me . He got as low as he could . But realised that was no fun . So got to a handicap he was "comfortable with".

The truth was revealed with 5 pints in him.

Rikand

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Spoke to a lad out west recently. He said to me . He got as low as he could . But realised that was no fun . So got to a handicap he was "comfortable with".

Name and shame imo

FixdePitchmark

He was from Kildare and giving out about bandits. The irony. Some bandits have a moral code of banditry.

A bit of a ...
A real....
An open...
An out and out....
An honest ......
A shamless. ..

But all joking aside. I think that is a wall even honest golfers hit. It is I can't handle this handicap. This is hard work. I'm not up to this.....

If people are honest they hit that wall.

LinksLad

The "Variable, can be +-3 of buffer" is where I'd like to get to.

Where I am is the "Wild, can be 5 under or 10 over". I shot exactly those scores in consecutive competitive outings.

slave1

Solid, play some great shots, accept the odd sh1te shot but most of all enjoy over everything else. Oh and dry!

alxmorgan

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

He was from Kildare and giving out about bandits. The irony. Some bandits have a moral code of banditry.

A bit of a ...
A real....
An open...
An out and out....
An honest ......
A shamless. ..

But all joking aside. I think that is a wall even honest golfers hit. It is I can't handle this handicap. This is hard work. I'm not up to this.....

If people are honest they hit that wall.

Is there any chance he was tired of playing the game a certain way to maintain his handicap ? So he was laying up on par 5s he could go for, avoiding firing at difficult pins and hitting middle of green instead ?

What I am saying is that maybe he got bored playing golf he knew could keep him at his handicap and wanted to play "wilder" golf to have more fun ? Just throwing it out there

FixdePitchmark

@ alx

No he was just 100 % genuine. I admired it. And I feel boards lads are perhaps not the norm.
more people than we like to think, like to be comfortable. Or have a big performance in them with a push.


They don't see any glory in buffers.
Do you honestly remember rounds you get a buffer.

On the other point. Yes I can go for all par 5s in 2 on mine. But handicap doesn't let me.
I can see other lads who go for it off higher handicaps. You could chose to go for it and get a handicap to help that.

hades

I think this is an important question that all golfers need to honestly ask themselves. I had a chat with a buddy recently who had just played a terrible round and i asked him what he wanted from his game. He wanted to be a good 16 hc golfer (off 22 currently), but the thing is, he wasn't doing anything to make that a reality. He was just turning up and expecting to play well.

Now i told him to look at some of the other lads in the society, they were all having a laugh and enjoying themselves. They all had pretty similar rounds and their hc were around the same, but it didn't matter as for them the fun was getting out and playing with your buddies and having a few jars afterwards.

And then there's the other side of it, i've a buddy who was pretty low 2 - 3, but he found being able to play off that hc was a lot of hard work. He needed to be practicing 3 to 4 times a week and he was loosing his enjoyment of the game, so like was mentioned above he's since slid out to around 6. He can play off 6 comfortably, he doesn't have to do hours of practice and can still put in the very good round every now and then.

I think people forget that we play this game for fun, and in our free time.

charlieIRL

hades wrote: »

I think people forget that we play this game for fun, and in our free time.

That is my game in a nutshell! I would love to have a much lower handicap but i just don't have the time right now to put into practice / lessons so I have to remind myself every now and then that unless there is some kind of miracle, i'm this handicap for a reason!!
And because of this, golf for me is about getting away from everything for a few hours to (try) enjoy myself!

alxmorgan

hades wrote: »

I think this is an important question that all golfers need to honestly ask themselves. I had a chat with a buddy recently who had just played a terrible round and i asked him what he wanted from his game. He wanted to be a good 16 hc golfer (off 22 currently), but the thing is, he wasn't doing anything to make that a reality. He was just turning up and expecting to play well.

Now i told him to look at some of the other lads in the society, they were all having a laugh and enjoying themselves. They all had pretty similar rounds and their hc were around the same, but it didn't matter as for them the fun was getting out and playing with your buddies and having a few jars afterwards.

And then there's the other side of it, i've a buddy who was pretty low 2 - 3, but he found being able to play off that hc was a lot of hard work. He needed to be practicing 3 to 4 times a week and he was loosing his enjoyment of the game, so like was mentioned above he's since slid out to around 6. He can play off 6 comfortably, he doesn't have to do hours of practice and can still put in the very good round every now and then.

I think people forget that we play this game for fun, and in our free time.

This is what I was asking (in a round about kind of way/ different side of same coin)....do people see a difference between someone intentionally getting .1s to get to a higher handicap and someone practicing less/ playing less conservative and possibly drifting higher as a result ?

I do....I think Mr One is a cheat and Mr Two is playing to the best of his ability within the constraints of time/practice and the kind of game he wants to play.

GreeBo

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

My reaction exactly. I though we had made some progress, at least for the handful reading here, on this topic over the last few weeks.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056759176&page=10

Whats the motivation Greebo; to see how many people's expectations are out of whack with reality, an idea to change the handicap system, or just, in our utopia, how would we like the golf handicap system to be ?

To try see what it is people are expecting of themselves and aiming for.

For eg if you are trying to be a comfortable 16 yet shooting at pins its never gong to happen imo.
Same as if you are trying to be a comfortable 5 and never practice from one round to the next I dont think it will happen either (unless you used to be scratch perhaps)

hades

I'd agree 100%, Mr One is a cheat. I don't think there's any question about it.

In my experience, Mr Two's hc will fluctuate over time, for example, my buddies hc generally goes down over the summer (nicer weather, longer evenings, playing more) and his natural ability comes back. But once the weather turns bad and he doesn't play as often he'll be struggling to make the buffer.

mike12

I played 3/4 times a week practiced a good bit too was fairly consistent and got down to a low of 7.5. Not i still play twice a week handicap is heading towards 14 still do a small bit of practice and am definitly in the anything can happen bracket.
Would love to get back to 9 and stay around that.

FixdePitchmark

If I'm being 100 % honest . For me to stay low takes an impractical amount of time.
To have work / life / home balance right . I'd have to drift out to 9 to 12.

As hades said . At some stage you have to go. Ok what is a realistic goal. What is a happy compromise .

Not at that point yet. But can totally understand anybody who had to do that.

bmc58

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I don't know yet
Want to end up near the top 2 options.

But sadly at the moment I'm the bottom two wild and anything can happen.

So still trying to find out.

Spoke to a lad out west recently. He said to me . He got as low as he could . But realised that was no fun . So got to a handicap he was "comfortable with".

The truth was revealed with 5 pints in him.

A few pints nearly always loosens the tongue.
dangerous things those pints.

Moat_Cailin

Big Phil is my favourite player, so a wild gun slinging approach it will have to be.

Dayor Knight

There are so many other answers to that original question..... good company on the course, enjoyable to play with, sporting, encouraging of partners, even tempered with own mistakes, sanguine with others. I'd like to be that sort of player .... gotta work on it! As for the rest... getting better and enjoying it. Would like to achieve a good cut through a couple of good scores, but buffer zones are of no interest to me at all. Having said that would of course prefer to be hitting consistent scores somewhere around the handicap, and some better.....

GreeBo

Dayor Knight wrote: »

There are so many other answers to that original question..... good company on the course, enjoyable to play with, sporting, encouraging of partners, even tempered with own mistakes, sanguine with others. I'd like to be that sort of player .... gotta work on it! As for the rest... getting better and enjoying it. Would like to achieve a good cut through a couple of good scores, but buffer zones are of no interest to me at all. Having said that would of course prefer to be hitting consistent scores somewhere around the handicap, and some better.....

Possibly, but the point of the poll is to find out what type of handicap golfer you want to be, I thought it was pretty obvious from the poll options?

Buffer zones mean nothing but yet you want to be consistent?

GreeBo

Interesting that 73% of people want to consistently at least within 3 of their buffer yet the idea of laying up earns so much scorn.
How do those of you in this category think you will be consistent at your handicap if you continue to take on these shots, considering the best in the world cant be consistent from day to day?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

Interesting that 73% of people want to consistently at least within 3 of their buffer yet the idea of laying up earns so much scorn.
How do those of you in this category think you will be consistent at your handicap if you continue to take on these shots, considering the best in the world cant be consistent from day to day?

What the hell has laying up got to do with playing to your handicap.

SaveOurLyric

GreeBo wrote: »

To try see what it is people are expecting of themselves and aiming for.

For eg if you are trying to be a comfortable 16 yet shooting at pins its never gong to happen imo.
Same as if you are trying to be a comfortable 5 and never practice from one round to the next I dont think it will happen either (unless you used to be scratch perhaps)

Ta.

And interesting reading in the numbers. 75% of (since they are reading/posting here) pretty interested and informed on matters golf golfers, have unrealistic aspirations for how their golf scores will relate to their handicap, and will either be disappointed more than they should be, or will be tempted to the handicap darkside (as per the tale above) to rectify matters to their satisfaction.

FixdePitchmark

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Ta.

And interesting reading in the numbers. 75% of (since they are reading/posting here) pretty interested and informed on matters golf golfers, have unrealistic aspirations for how their golf scores will relate to their handicap, and will either be disappointed more than they should be, or will be tempted to the handicap darkside (as per the tale above) to rectify matters to their satisfaction.

This is tongue in check.

"Everybody else is doing it so why can't we".

Dayor Knight

GreeBo wrote: »

Possibly, but the point of the poll is to find out what type of handicap golfer you want to be, I thought it was pretty obvious from the poll options?

Buffer zones mean nothing but yet you want to be consistent?

No need to be confused. That's why I said "Having said that....". I'm at least partially accepting what you're getting at. But I've never played golf with buffer zones in mind. Do you think I need to focus on buffer zones to be consistent? I see them as part of a measuring system for determining my handicap, not an objective in their own right.
Yes, the purpose of your poll is obvious. But it seems a bit loaded, to make a point. The question is a good one and suggests a broader consideration of what type of golfer we would like to be. I.m.h.o. Sometimes we need to think outside the tee box. 😊
Doesn't mean you can't lash ahead with your poll .... No offence intended.

Russman

If we're talking aspirations, then I'd aspire to option 1 but would like the handicap to be low.

GreeBo

Dayor Knight wrote: »

No need to be confused. That's why I said "Having said that....". I'm at least partially accepting what you're getting at. But I've never played golf with buffer zones in mind. Do you think I need to focus on buffer zones to be consistent? I see them as part of a measuring system for determining my handicap, not an objective in their own right.
Yes, the purpose of your poll is obvious. But it seems a bit loaded, to make a point. The question is a good one and suggests a broader consideration of what type of golfer we would like to be. I.m.h.o. Sometimes we need to think outside the tee box. 😊
Doesn't mean you can't lash ahead with your poll .... No offence intended.

I think about buffer zones, I go out to play attempting to ensure that, if Im not going to be under par, I'll be at least within my buffer.
I dont aim for buffer, I aim lower but not so low that Im bringing in above buffer possibilities.

I dont see how its loaded though, what other options would you suggest?

Russman

I think those options are fine in terms of a long term, non specific viewpoint.
Personally speaking, in any given round I'd never have a target or aim for a particular score. I find when I'm playing regularly, I play my best when I don't know exactly what score I'm shooting and am simply playing each hole as it comes. I think when you start thinking about buffers there's a danger of getting too defensive, sometimes you have to reach for the stars. Don't limit what you might achieve, better to try and fail than not try at all, without being stupid about it on the course.

GreeBo

Interesting golfdigest stat.

Here are some benchmarks: Tour players hit the green 50 percent of the time with a 3- or 4-iron. If you can achieve 20 percent, you should be breaking 90. For middle irons, the pros are at 65 percent, so shoot for 50 percent. With short irons, they're at 80 percent, so try for hitting two out of every three greens. That's a simple way to make stats work for you.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

Interesting golfdigest stat.

Always love reading this piece....
http://www.golfwrx.com/82327/golfers-have-ridiculous-expectations/

TheDoc

I'd like to be solid and consistent, but as typical with me in just about anything, sport included, it's sporadic as ****.

Similar to football and everything else I've played "competitively" one day I'll be absolutely godlike, the next day absolutely horrendous.

Really struggle with consistency

LinksLad

GreeBo wrote: »

I think about buffer zones, I go out to play attempting to ensure that, if Im not going to be under par, I'll be at least within my buffer.
I dont aim for buffer, I aim lower but not so low that Im bringing in above buffer possibilities.

100% - I don't know how not to think about buffer zones whenever my handicap is at xx.4 with a few holes to go. I start to think "right, out of the prizes, probably, but will need at least 3 points from these last 2 holes, so stay out of trouble".
It helps me to focus on what is needed to avoid a handicap increase.

GreeBo

LinksLad wrote: »

100% - I don't know how not to think about buffer zones whenever my handicap is at xx.4 with a few holes to go. I start to think "right, out of the prizes, probably, but will need at least 3 points from these last 2 holes, so stay out of trouble".
It helps me to focus on what is needed to avoid a handicap increase.

For me I think its borne out of something a pro I played with one day said to me.
I asked him what does he do if he looks like he is going to shoot 80.
He said that he tries his best to shoot a 79.

To some that means going for everthing, to me I don't change my plan on a good day versus a bad day. My plan is my plan for a good round, so why change it?

Tones69

To be able to play par golf consistently on any golf course. Hcap wise i dunno im happy around 5/6 it would be cool to get to scratch or 1 but it would take a lot of practice to be able to stay there which might take the fun out if the game?

SaveOurLyric

Merciful hour. Up to now 80% in the delusional categories now.

The only consistency that you will ever achieve in golf is that you will consistently be inconsistent. The consistent golfer of people's dreams has never existed.
Interesting chapters in Ted Jorgensen's 'The Physics of Golf', and similar in John Zumerchik's 'Newton on the tee - a good walk through the science of golf' on the topic, and the odds of shooting a good score and the variances in the average scores of even the best of the pros.

Boskowski

@Greebo

I see it like this.

I'm a high handicap golfer so playing 'by numbers' as you seem to advocate it will not really work for me or only to some extent. And here is why.

I'm off 16 now and like everyone else I'd like to get lower. So that means I will have to play a good number of holes for par, not for bogey. But since I am going to make some mistakes - even on the holes that I may play for bogey to begin with - I will have to aim for par on more holes than just two. Also I am a reasonably good ball striker for a 16, my shortcomings are elsewhere, mostly short game I guess. My home course is not an easy one and I can reach all but two in regulation and even those two I can reach now more often than not. (Which is not the same as saying that I will hit them in regulation of course.) But in theory I can. And I'm rarely that wild that I will not be at least in around the green in regulation.

If I played ultra conservative to begin with I will take away my chances of getting par on holes that according to your theory I shouldn't be playing for par to begin with while I will still make mistakes on the holes I play for bogey. So effectively I am reducing my chances for a good score right off.

That is assuming that I play percentages to some extent. I will not follow a bad shot with a stupid one and I will not take on something ridiculous. But I will take on shots I cant pull off possibly half the time knowing that a miss won't be so bad a miss anyway and I can still get on in reg + 1 and take my 2 putts from there most of the time or get up and down even.

So I'm somewhere in between conservative enough but also upwards looking.

Does that make sense even?

GreeBo

Boskowski wrote: »

@Greebo

I see it like this.

I'm a high handicap golfer so playing 'by numbers' as you seem to advocate it will not really work for me or only to some extent. And here is why.

I'm off 16 now and like everyone else I'd like to get lower. So that means I will have to play a good number of holes for par, not for bogey. But since I am going to make some mistakes - even on the holes that I may play for bogey to begin with - I will have to aim for par on more holes than just two. Also I am a reasonably good ball striker for a 16, my shortcomings are elsewhere, mostly short game I guess. My home course is not an easy one and I can reach all but two in regulation and even those two I can reach now more often than not. (Which is not the same as saying that I will hit them in regulation of course.) But in theory I can. And I'm rarely that wild that I will not be at least in around the green in regulation.

If I played ultra conservative to begin with I will take away my chances of getting par on holes that according to your theory I shouldn't be playing for par to begin with while I will still make mistakes on the holes I play for bogey. So effectively I am reducing my chances for a good score right off.

That is assuming that I play percentages to some extent. I will not follow a bad shot with a stupid one and I will not take on something ridiculous. But I will take on shots I cant pull off possibly half the time knowing that a miss won't be so bad a miss anyway and I can still get on in reg + 1 and take my 2 putts from there most of the time or get up and down even.

So I'm somewhere in between conservative enough but also upwards looking.

Does that make sense even?

Yep it makes sense, but I think you are misunderstanding my argument.
If there is little to no downside in going for a shot then its green light all the way in my book.

Also, you dont need to make a heap of pars, 3 pars and the rest as bogeys (you are near the green in two in regulation) gets you 37 points and thats without those extra few pars you will get with a good chip or good putt.

A good example in my club is the 17th. Uphill par 5, OOB on the right tree lined on the left.
I can make the green in two with an average drive and average 3 wood if not rescue.
However, if I dont hit that good drive, Im probbaly blocked out and punching sideways. If I do hit an ok drive I still have to hit a good wood to get to the green and hope I dont slice it OOB or pull it into the trees.
So, I dont go for it in two, ever.
since Im not going for it in two, why would I hit a driver off the tee? It makes no sense. So now I hit a rescue or 4i off the tee, short of all the fairway bunkers and back enough so that if I do push or pull it, I still have a shot up the fairway, over the trees.
A 5i now leaves me 100M from the green, pretty much a routine par from then everytime, with a good chance of a birdie with a good wedge.
I play with people every week who cannot and do not go for it in two, but still hit driver into the trees or the bunker and then struggle to make a 6. Thats just not sensible golf in my book.

One point, you say that your short game is bad but also that you rarely miss enough to not be near enough to the green in regulation.
That coupled with being an ok ball striker means if you want to get down, work on your short game. There is no other option. You are never, ever, ever going to get to the stage where you are consistently hitting greens with your 3i and holing birdie putts...its just not possible, for anyone. Read the last link that Russman sent, your expectations are most likely way off compared to your ability.

Boskowski

I think we're on the same page really then.

Our second is an easy par 5. However, there is a creek running in front of the green and long is dead. Also you will have to cut a big high drive over the trees off the tee to get into a reasonably good position to get on in two. And with reasonably good - with the danger around the green - I'm talking say 5 or 6 iron for your second shot.
Now a draw or even straight drive may get you into trouble. In all the years I'm a member there I have only seen people getting on in 2 twice. Both were very good ball strikers/low men hitting that big high cut over the tress. And even for them I'd say it didn't really make sense.

No brainer really.

But yet I see everybody taking driver off the tee and at best it will get them into a very dicey position for on in two (best ever 3 or 5 wood). At worst it will get them into trouble.

I will not hit driver there ever. Into the wind 3 wood, calm or down wind hybrid or 3 or 4 iron. I'm wise enough for those kinds of decisions.

Edit: My short game isn't bad, its solid as in I can get onto the green nearing the flag many times. Onto the green practically all the time. When I say 'short game' I mean its not really good as in threatening up and down a lot, which isn't the same as bad.

Tones69

As jack nicklaus says. Know your limits, its when you take on shots you know are out of your comfort zone is when the high scores creep in. Most problems i see with higher hcaps is taking on things they have no hope of pulling off. Bad course management etc etc. Follow up one mistake with another by not taking their medicine. Obviously we all want to make that par but if ur tee shot doesnt leave u in a good spot then play it safe. I think im gone off topic here btw ha

Tones69

Boskowski wrote: »

I think we're on the same page really then.

Our second is an easy par 5. However, there is a creek running in front of the green and long is dead. Also you will have to cut a big high drive over the trees off the tee to get into a reasonably good position to get on in two. And with reasonably good - with the danger around the green - I'm talking say 5 or 6 iron for your second shot.
Now a draw or even straight drive may get you into trouble. In all the years I'm a member there I have only seen people getting on in 2 twice. Both were very good ball strikers/low men hitting that big high cut over the tress. And even for them I'd say it didn't really make sense.

No brainer really.

But yet I see everybody taking driver off the tee and at best it will get them into a very dicey position for on in two (best ever 3 or 5 wood). At worst it will get them into trouble.

I will not hit driver there ever. Into the wind 3 wood, calm or down wind hybrid or 3 or 4 iron. I'm wise enough for those kinds of decisions.

Edit: My short game isn't bad, its solid as in I can get onto the green nearing the flag many times. Onto the green practically all the time. When I say 'short game' I mean its not really good as in threatening up and down a lot, which isn't the same as bad.

Soooo what is easy about this par 5? Lol

Boskowski

Tones69 wrote: »

Soooo what is easy about this par 5? Lol

Haha, fair enough.

It's easy when you hit hybrid off the tee (can't reach trouble) into the apex of the dogleg right, pop a 5, 6 or 7 iron down to 100m and wedge into a big wide green.

Its the shape of the hole. While easy in 3 its near impossible in 2.

Edit: Now that I think of it. Easy may be an exaggeration, not difficult is probably more fitting. Its index 9 or 10.

Tones69

I played a 575 yard par 5 yesterday into a gale wind. I had to hit driver and two 4 irons i sh*t you not. Wasnt a "difficult" par 5 just played about 700 yards lol. Ran off with par happy out

Miley Byrne

That escalated quickly!!!