night vision

reniwren

Does anyone know the actual process to getting permission for night vision?

Cass

Tick the "Sights" box in section 3.2 of the FCA1 and supply additional information on a separate sheet of paper as to the reason why it's needed.


Very much like a suppressor.

reniwren

Thanks for your reply, Cass. Just wondering do you have to make a full application or how do you add it onto existing application?
Really wondering how it works for a diy ad-on to a day scope.

Thanks again.

Cass

reniwren wrote: »

Just wondering do you have to make a full application or how do you add it onto existing application?

Two ways to do it:

• Go to your FO, and ask him/her can he add it to your details on PULSE. He may be able to sort you out there and then. Although it might require a letter from yourself to explain why you want the NV.
• You could use the FCA2 Amendment form, but there is no section that relates to scopes. Only personal details and firearm details. Have a blank one with you just in case.

Really wondering how it works for a diy ad-on to a day scope.

Same as a fully fledged NV scope from a dealer. The law says once you fit any device to a firearm to make it NV it requires authorisation. So if you stick a NV monocle onto your day scope or even a camera onto the scope to make it NV it requires the same authorisation as buying a proper NV scope.

reniwren

Thanks again Cass, went in today to have a chat, he didn't know the details himself so he's looking into it.

Cass

They wouldn't as it's not a usual piece of equipment. 99% of the time it's a normal scope and a lamp. Very little use for NV in this country. Plus a good scope with proper NV capability can run into the thousands. A friend bought one 18 months ago. Spent nearly €5k on it.

However the information i've given you above are the two ways to go about it, and the way things stand legally. Still no harm to hear what he comes back with. If unsure, based on what he says, ask here again.

reniwren

So I received 2 new licences today, after I went in about this, but nothing is different about them? Should there be a new letter on them or something? I'll go in and try talk to the FO again, I'm very confused.

Cass

I've no idea as there are so few NV scopes out there.

Ask/ring your FO to check on PULSE to see if there is authorisation. If so then you're covered. I really don't know if it's like the "silencer" with the "S". IOW is there a second "S" for Sights, or NV for nightvision? The fact you got a new license would suggest you're covered, but it's far better to ask and find out for sure than assume and risk a slap.

Zxthinger

I also applied for nightvision sights ands I made extensive submissions pertaining to my paticular reasons to justify my need!

I received no indication on the actual licence nor did I receive and attached 'conditions' stating that I was not allowed to use such devices save to say that it was outlined in the grant letter that "night time shooting can only be carried out to protect livestock", which happened to be one of my submission points in the first place!

Just to state for "pig-iron", sights won't be denoted by a second 'S' as it would lead to all types of confusion. Also sights fall into the legal quagmire in a slightly different way as opposed to silencers!
Silencers originally required written permission and they prob still do hence the inclusion of an 's' been a form of written permission but i it was originally only meant to be issued for one year.
Sights and other accessiories including anything from day-scopes (& NV scopes) to component parts being spares are all deemed as firearm components. Now as such we all know that owning a spares does not require addition written permission as you are covered by you standard licence and it's my opinion that all scopes are classed similarly such that possession of any scope without a firearms licence will or could land you in pooh.

Cass

Rifle scopes, standard ones and not NV, are not component parts of a firearm and require not authorisation whether you have a firearms license or not. The Sigghts box does not apply to ordinary scopes only NV or other such light emitting scopes which can, and i think does, include laser designator and laser range finding scopes.

Silencers were issued via means of a letter from your Super for the period of your firearms license which prior to 2009 was one year. Since then they run the course of the license of the firearm for which they are issued. The "S" is only visible if the authoirsation is on PULSE. If you get a letter from your Super but no "S" on your license then technically you are authroised for the silencer, but it's not on PULSE. It;s the reason the FPU want all SUpers issuing licenses to make sure that the licenses have the "S" and not a letter. It was introduced in 2009 with the new licenses to avoid such confusion yet is not always used.

Sparks

Zxthinger wrote: »

sights fall into the legal quagmire in a slightly different way as opposed to silencers!

Actually, NV scopes and thermal scopes (seriously, does anyone use thermal scopes or was this another case of the Dail debate being more informed by Frederick Forsyth than reality?) are in exactly the same legal situation as silencers - both are legally covered by part (g) of the definition of firearm in section one of the Act.

Silencers originally required written permission and they prob still do

Strictly speaking they need either a full-blown licence or an authorisation - but it's easier for the Gardai to do the authorisation, so it's done that way and signified by the "S" on your licence (and which lasts for the full three years as opposed to the old permissions which lasted one year, but back then your licence only lasted a year anyway).

Sights and other accessiories including anything from day-scopes (& NV scopes) to component parts being spares are all deemed as firearm components.

Worse than that, they're all deemed as firearms in and of themselves. Except perhaps the normal scope, because that's not a component part of a firearm and there's no special case law about it.

Now as such we all know that owning a spares does not require addition written permission as you are covered by you standard licence

That does rather depend on the spare part, and the viewpoint of the Garda looking at it. Spare barrels, for example, are handled specially (the rule boils down to you being allowed one), while at some point (probably around the point where you start having a spare action) you'll hit the "Now you're taking the piss" line and then you'll get a paddlin'.

The thing to keep in mind is that the definition in law of what a firearm is - and that's the important definition from the point of view of keeping yourself out of court - is a very, very, very, stupidly ridiculously wide definition. An M4 bolt -- the small screw-like thing that's 4mm wide, not the bolt from an M4 carbine -- under the law, could be a firearm because it's the bolt that holds your action to your stock and the law says "any component part". You'd hope common sense would hold some weight in court, but the thing about common sense is...



And that's not the most comforting of things to have as your legal defence in court should you ever need it...

and it's my opinion that all scopes are classed similarly such that possession of any scope without a firearms licence will or could land you in pooh.

If it's a night vision or thermal scope, yeah, you'll probably be having a detailed chat with someone in the AGS, if only because "I just happen to have five grand's worth of hardware that's designed to bolt to a firearm officer, I don't have a firearm to bolt it to" is the kind of sentence that raises eyebrows...

If it's just a normal telescopic sight (without any built-in lasers or anything like that), well, there's no law against owning those. They're just telescopes basicly.

Zxthinger

quote sparks, "If it's just a normal telescopic sight (without any built-in lasers or anything like that), well, there's no law against owning those. They're just telescopes basicly."
Yer right there! I was originally wrong saying that all scopes were or could be seen as firearms. No one is infallible! Lol

But NV scopes or laser scopes are still different from silencers in that silencer specifically require written permission as stated in the statue yet other objects that make up the exhaustive list of "firearms" don't specifically outline the requirement for written permission in the same mannor as the silencer save that such devices are to be declared in section 3.2 of the Fac form.

Sparks

They're only different in that section 7 lists off the written permission procedure for them; but that doesn't mean that they themselves have a different legal status, it just means you have more than one way to meet the requirements for possessing one. You can get a full-blown licence for one, or use the section 7 authorisation, and in practice everyone does the latter because it's easier; but that doesn't somehow make the silencer less of a firearm in the law, it can't. It's like the way that a rifle doesn't stop being a firearm just because it's a club firearm and people are shooting it under 2(4)(d) instead of having their own licence for it.

reniwren

Well I finally got a hold of someone who was able to check for me, got the go ahead on the two licences and went for a quick wander with the new toy go this Fox at about 200 yards or so she was even down wind of me needless to say I'm mighty pleased.

Zxthinger

Nice work there! Great photo too!
Would love to read more about your DIY set up!..Your not on any other nightvision forums are ye?

Anyway best of luck with the kit !

All ye need now is a thermal spotter! Nothing will escape! Lol

reniwren

Oh it's not DIY I'd only do a bad job of it, I went for a night eye NE 500 basically see everything out to 250-300 yards after that it's eye shine it's perfect for the hmr

dimcoin

Why would you need a license to acquire night vision? Is this just for a night vision scopes or for goggles in general?

If I bring a night binocular into Ireland am I breaking the law?

Cass

If it's mounted to a firearm in the form of a scope, DIY job, etc. then it requires authorisation. Handheld units do not need the any authorisation.

dimcoin

Cass wrote:

If it's mounted to a firearm in the form of a scope, DIY job, etc. then it requires authorisation. Handheld units do not need the any authorisation.

Thanks for the clarification.