Feral Gang of Youths terrorising Dublin

LiveIsLife

Reading this story where the Gardai have arrested some lad that has been chaged with two counts of rape. Fair play to them for clamping down, but why has it taken so long?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/violent-city-feral-gang-teen-is-facing-double-rape-charge-30528061.html

Why can't these kinds of people be locked up for a long time to prevent them carrying out these crimes? They're obviously well known to Gardai, but are often let run up numerous convictions before doing any length of time. Read any local paper and you'll see people in court with 50+ convictions.

How should the system be changed to prevent these kinds of people being a menace to society? With some of them its obvious the only thing they'll ever do is lead lives of crime

wicklowstevo

Because as you hear so often here ,( except in anti police threads )
Innocent until proven guilty applys to all of gods creatures

our bail laws are old antiquated and ineffective.
there is a system in other European country's that are much more practical and effective ie spain italy and even france but we got stuck with the british model.

a working justice system is one where if some one commits or is reasonably suspected of committing crime to a certain level such as violent crime or thefts up to say 5000 euro they are immediately imprisoned and swiftly tried before a punishment is set out fitting the crime and taking into account the effect on the victim.

our system does none of this

kstand

Nothing that cannot be resolved by erecting s scaffold in front of Trinity College and leading them one by one up to the scaffold for 20 lashes of the birch on the bare - with the girls being thrashed last of all.

wicklowstevo

sounds like your looking for a completely different part of the internet

KungPao

I blame the lack of facilities for the poor little mites. It's all the gubberments fault.

kingtiger

I am all in favour of erecting stocks in all major towns and cities in Ireland, charge a euro or two for a bag of rotten fruit, you are making money for the taxpayer and also giving these little scrotes something to think about


or else something like Battle Royale

CrazyRabbit

Neutering and spaying is an effective method of controlling the feral population of any species...or sub species.

.jacksparrow.

Dare I say when a certain group were carrying out punishment attacks up north, lads thought twice about committing crimes, it worked.

But they were also up to other activities which were counter productive.

Vigilante justice, up the mountains, kneecap job.

Irishcrx

To be fair to the Gardai , it's very frustrating for them. I have Gards and detectives come into my building regularly for CCTV footage of incidents and have spoken to them about catching these guys and the court system. They seem as frustrated as the rest of us with hounding down these lads over and over again , arresting them and then having them back on the streets a year later and starting the process over and over again.

The problem is not all with the Gardai , I can understand their frustration with this. The problem is with the Irish courts system not putting these lads away when they should be and for longer periods. Absolute scumbags with no regard for other people of their lives , they wouldn't think twice about stabbing you over a few cans or a push bike.

Pinch Flat

Scumbag city.


http://www.stickboydaily.com/really/holland-to-create-scumbag-villages-for-bad-tenants/

Problem solved

hatrickpatrick

Our prisons are too overcrowded to accomodate people who actually need to be there.
It's pretty simple. We need to stop jailing people for non violent drugs offenses and start giving priority to people whose crimes have severely harmed others. To have people in jail for non payment of fines and dealing dope / pills while people like the Ciaran Noonan conspirators get a slap on the wrist is absolute bullsh!t.

Pinch Flat

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Our prisons are too overcrowded to accomodate people who actually need to be there.
It's pretty simple. We need to stop jailing people for non violent drugs offenses and start giving priority to people whose crimes have severely harmed others. To have people in jail for non payment of fines and dealing dope / pills while people like the Ciaran Noonan conspirators get a slap on the wrist is absolute bullsh!t.

People who are in jail for non payment of dog & TV licences and debts do far worse damage than these scummers

Kermit.de.frog

Ah leave the little scamps alone. There is nothing for them to do.

flutered

Pinch Flat wrote: »

People who are in jail for non payment of dog & TV licences and debts do far worse damage than these scummers

whatttttttttt

Irishcrx

flutered wrote: »

whatttttttttt

He's obviously being sarcastic or looking for a lifetime ban..

knucklehead6

either that or the fact that they are taking up a jail space that could be filled by a proper scumbag some how makes them worse than the proper scumbag

DLMA23

Moral decline, the ineptitude of the Irish judicial system, apathy & frustration in equal measure on the part of AGS (no judgement here) & a blasé attitude in certain sections of Irish society for the consequences of one's actions...when will it all end?

TwoShedsJackson

Shock horror outrage from the Indo as usual. No report of the hundreds of thousands of non-feral youths who aren't terrorising Dublin?

Irishcrx

Build more jails, 3 strike system , let the scum rot in jail and kill each other there..

Staplor

The Purge is an event occurring every year from 7:00 PM on June 20th till 7:00 AM on June 21st During that time, any known crime is legal, and all services (police, fire department, hospitals and emergency rooms) are closed. It is said to act as a catharsis for the citizens, but in reality, it is used as a method of artificial population control, in which the poorer and homeless people are the main targets.

Seems like they had an idea.

DLMA23

Re-open Spike Island, run it like boot camp, staff it with no nonsense DI's & make them pay for their bed & board with work

Arbeit Macht Frei

Harry Palmr

Sterilisation

FTA69

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Dare I say when a certain group were carrying out punishment attacks up north, lads thought twice about committing crimes, it worked.

But they were also up to other activities which were counter productive.

Vigilante justice, up the mountains, kneecap job.

That's a common misconception to be honest. Nationalist parts of Belfast and other urban areas were plagued with anti-social behaviour and the IRA dishing out justice only put a stop gap on it at the very most. The IRA shot some people on three or four occasions and as soon as they'd have the cast off they'd be off robbing more cars. I've often heard senior Republicans say that long term, such an approach doesn't do much only keep a lid on it.

Similarly the hang 'em high brigade also fail to realise that things like long sentences, harsh conditions and three strike laws are implemented in the USA and achieve dick f*ck all in keeping crime down.

Pinch Flat

Irishcrx wrote: »

He's obviously being sarcastic or looking for a lifetime ban..

Sarcasm of course - sorry it didn't come across as that. The feral guys should be the ones doing time, not people who don't pay fines.

Bucklesman

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Scumbag city.


http://www.stickboydaily.com/really/holland-to-create-scumbag-villages-for-bad-tenants/

Problem solved

The problem with that sort of thing is that they're never any sort of lasting or permanent solution on their own.

Holsten

FTA69 wrote: »

That's a common misconception to be honest. Nationalist parts of Belfast and other urban areas were plagued with anti-social behaviour and the IRA dishing out justice only put a stop gap on it at the very most. The IRA shot some people on three or four occasions and as soon as they'd have the cast off they'd be off robbing more cars. I've often heard senior Republicans say that long term, such an approach doesn't do much only keep a lid on it.

Similarly the hang 'em high brigade also fail to realise that things like long sentences, harsh conditions and three strike laws are implemented in the USA and achieve dick f*ck all in keeping crime down.

Most intelligent post here.

These harsh measures do nothing to stop or prevent crime. If anything the increase crime rates.

US style is not the answer.

LiveIsLife

FTA69 wrote: »

That's a common misconception to be honest. Nationalist parts of Belfast and other urban areas were plagued with anti-social behaviour and the IRA dishing out justice only put a stop gap on it at the very most. The IRA shot some people on three or four occasions and as soon as they'd have the cast off they'd be off robbing more cars. I've often heard senior Republicans say that long term, such an approach doesn't do much only keep a lid on it.

Similarly the hang 'em high brigade also fail to realise that things like long sentences, harsh conditions and three strike laws are implemented in the USA and achieve dick f*ck all in keeping crime down.

The US isn't the only place with harsh punishments thought. Singapore has a pretty much zero tolerance policy and has some of the lowest crime rates in the world

Hold the Cheez Whiz

LiveIsLife wrote: »

The US isn't the only place with harsh punishments thought. Singapore has a pretty much zero tolerance policy and has some of the lowest crime rates in the world

Singapore also has a low unemployment rate and a minuscule welfare state. You work or you don't eat, so there is a lot less time for scumbag activities.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Similarly the hang 'em high brigade also fail to realise that things like long sentences, harsh conditions and three strike laws are implemented in the USA and achieve dick f*ck all in keeping crime down.

There's a difference between locking everyone up for minor offences and locking up people who behave like scumbags with impunity for months or years on end. It's a subtle one though so I can see why you might not see it.

Kermit.de.frog

Holsten wrote: »

US style is not the answer.

Course not. They actually punish criminals over there. :rolleyes:

Hold the Cheez Whiz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Course not. They actually punish criminals over there. :rolleyes:

And a fat lot of good it does them - the recidivism rate is extremely high. The US style system is great if all you are into is vengeance and political photo ops, but if you actually want to reduce crime and the prison revolving door, there are far better models out there.

jank

FTA69 wrote: »

Similarly the hang 'em high brigade also fail to realise that things like long sentences, harsh conditions and three strike laws are implemented in the USA and achieve dick f*ck all in keeping crime down.

Not entirely true. Crime has indeed come down from the highs of years past in the US.

http://prospect.org/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/us_violent_crime_rate_and_incarceration_rate.jpg?itok=Pp2z-luU

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2013/08/ldah6rdp6ukvngoyqi1fcg.gif

padraig.od

Over the long term abortion on demand would be great for lowering the crime rate (if you don't consider the mass slaughter of unborn innocent children to be a crime). Legalising soft drugs would be a winner too.

king of the sheeple

There is a lot to be said for compulsory sterilisation of habitual criminals. It stops them from reproducing and causing the burden on the state to increase. Once they stop reproducing the problem will decrease.

It should be a condition for a habitual criminal to get social welfare or other state aid that they agree to be sterilised.

Holsten

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Course not. They actually punish criminals over there. :rolleyes:

Which is better, punishment or rehabilitation?

conorhal

Holsten wrote: »

Most intelligent post here.

These harsh measures do nothing to stop or prevent crime. If anything the increase crime rates.

US style is not the answer.

Doing sweet FA doesn't do much to reduce crime either.
Harsh measures absolutely do reduce crime, take zero tolerence policing in NY for example. Other measures that mitigate the causes of crime are also necessary in the long term, but to suggest tossing this group of ferral delinquents in the clink and throwing away the key would absolutele prevent them continuing THEIR crime spree which really should have come to an end long ago, given the string of crimes they have committed, from rape to kicking that Brazillian tourist unconcious, the real question is what the hell are they still doing on the street and why the hell are repeat offenders of the worst sort out on bail right now?

Kermit.de.frog

Holsten wrote: »

Which is better, punishment or rehabilitation?

Fear is the best way.

Ever been to an Arab country like Saudi or the UAE? You don't see any crime there.

Do you know why?

Because if you steal a loaf of bread you could lose your hand.

And you may think that is barbaric and all the rest. Fact is they are the safest countries in the world when it comes to crime. They don't put up with the crap we do here. People are afraid to commit crime.

That is how it should be. Not this fluffy liberal nonsense that has our prisons turned in to little Hiltons and people walking the streets with 100 + convictions. The result has been more crime.

FloatingVoter

Guards find feral youth in Dublin city centre. They'll find the fig in the figroll next.

smellmepower

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Fear is the best way.

Ever been to an Arab country like Saudi or the UAE? You don't see any crime there.

Do you know why?

Because if you steal a loaf of bread you could lose your hand.

And you may think that is barbaric and all the rest. Fact is they are the safest countries in the world when it comes to crime. They don't put up with the crap we do here. People are afraid to commit crime.

That is how it should be. Not this fluffy liberal nonsense that has our prisons turned in to little Hiltons and people walking the streets with 100 + convictions. The result has been more crime.

Jaysus.

gunny558

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

We need to stop jailing people for non violent drugs offenses

These drug laws in my view are often what catches these brain dead junkies. Garda know full well when they mugg someone but usually they get rid of phones/money etc before the Garda can get a chance to catch them and search them and then it comes down to one persons word against another and invariably they get off. If stiff drug laws let Garda search them at random and then arrest them upon finding drugs then Im all for it.

I dont care how un-PC this is, but I for one would feel a lot safer walking through Dublin at night if the all junkies were in jail.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

To have people in jail for non payment of fines

In my experience, a fair few of these people dont give the judge much choice. On multiple occasions I have seen people argue and say 'im not paying the TV licence because I dont watch RTE and Im not going to pay any fine, or do any community service so FCUK you'. They make a huge song and dance out of it and pass up plenty of opportunity to pay licences/fines. Even in court it can be settled if they would just pay up but instead they'd rather be matyred and go to jail. And then people here talk about the injustice behind it and the corrupt system.

What would you have the judge do? Tell him next time someone in his court is refusing to pay a fine just leave them be?

Holsten

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Fear is the best way.

Ever been to an Arab country like Saudi or the UAE? You don't see any crime there.

Do you know why?

Because if you steal a loaf of bread you could lose your hand.

And you may think that is barbaric and all the rest. Fact is they are the safest countries in the world when it comes to crime. They don't put up with the crap we do here. People are afraid to commit crime.

That is how it should be. Not this fluffy liberal nonsense that has our prisons turned in to little Hiltons and people walking the streets with 100 + convictions. The result has been more crime.

Fear as in deterrence? Harsh punishments as a deterrence don't work. Prime example of this is the death penalty in the US, people still murder knowing they'll be out to death. Criminals never think they'll be caught so the punishment doesn't even enter their heads.

If these counties do have low crime rates I'd attribute that to their society an culture rather than harsh punishments. If this stuff actually worked I'd be for it. Pure logic, but it doesn't work.

Kermit.de.frog

Holsten wrote: »

Fear as in deterrence? Harsh punishments as a deterrence don't work.

Why does it work in the UAE then? That is an example of a country virtually crime free and you think that is because of the way they are? It's because you would not dare commit a crime there.

It's fear and it works. No point denying it.

I'm not advocating flogging or anything like that but we need far tougher sentences and more prison spaces in this country.

80% of the population of the UAE is foreign national incidentally. Your culture argument is out the window.

UCDVet

Holsten wrote: »

Fear as in deterrence? Harsh punishments as a deterrence don't work. Prime example of this is the death penalty in the US, people still murder knowing they'll be out to death. Criminals never think they'll be caught so the punishment doesn't even enter their heads.

If these counties do have low crime rates I'd attribute that to their society an culture rather than harsh punishments. If this stuff actually worked I'd be for it. Pure logic, but it doesn't work.

Nobody takes the death penalty seriously because...
1.) Hardly anyone is put to death
2.) It takes decades to do it

The 'expected' punishment for a crime is the likelihood of my getting caught * the severity of the punishment.

The odds of being put to death in the US are so low as to become completely negligible compared to the risk in committing the crimes that would lead to the death penalty.

It's exactly the same as downloading music. It's illegal. And in the US, you could face ridiculous fines, like 20k USD PER SONG. But that doesn't seem to deter anyone! Why? Because 0.000001% or less of the population faces those fines.

I promise you, if starting tomorrow, EVERY person who downloaded a song was tracked down and billed, even just 100 USD, nobody would download songs.

The death penalty *would* be a deterrent if people in the US were actually killed. If your buddy robbed an old lady and was KILLED two weeks later, that would seriously deter criminals.

I'm not for or against the death penalty, but there are a lot of implementation details that could be different that would make it work better. Same deal with the 'it costs more' argument. It only costs more, because they spent 10+ years waiting to kill the person. It could be much cheaper.

sabat

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Fear is the best way.

Ever been to an Arab country like Saudi or the UAE? You don't see any crime there.

The very existence of those countries is a criminal conspiracy. Ever wonder why Arab countries without oil don't have those laws? It's because they don't need to control the population while the ruling classes steal all the wealth to spooge on gold toilet seats and hookers. And you do see crime btw, more crime than any western country, but it's inflicted on poor migrants. Maybe in your head petty street crime is more serious than false imprisonment, slave labour, torture and even murder-in that case you could easily get a job over there and emigrate.

Holsten

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why does it work in the UAE then?

I don't know their crime rates nor their justice system. I would guess if they have low rates it's from their culture not their justice system.

Look at Japan, some of the lowest levels of crime in the world and they don't have an overly punitive system. Countries with a focus in rehabilitation have lower rates of recidivism.

Kermit.de.frog

Holsten wrote: »

I don't know their crime rates nor their justice system. I would guess if they have low rates it's from their culture not their justice system.

80% of the country are foreign national - mostly from the sub continent. It has nothing to do with their culture. They are afraid to commit crime.

I am not advocating those archaic methods here all I am saying is it's proof that real punishment does work.

miss no stars

Hold the Cheez Whiz wrote: »

Singapore also has a low unemployment rate and a minuscule welfare state. You work or you don't eat, so there is a lot less time for scumbag activities.

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is the solution to Ireland's anti-social problems AND the economic problems.

You work or you starve. Too busy working to commit crime. Commit a crime and you're likely to be prosecuted. Get jailed and you won't work afterwards and you'll starve. Fairly strong incentive to work and abide by the law.

Catch Neuter and Release, all sorted

Kermit.de.frog

miss no stars wrote: »

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is the solution to Ireland's anti-social problems AND the economic problems.

You work or you starve. Too busy working to commit crime. Commit a crime and you're likely to be prosecuted. Get jailed and you won't work afterwards and you'll starve. Fairly strong incentive to work and abide by the law.

This country is going to really struggle to get unemployment below 10%. A lot of that bracket are that little bit too cosy on welfare atm. There should be more stick and less carrot.

miss no stars

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This country is going to really struggle to get unemployment below 10%. A lot of that bracket are that little bit too cosy on welfare atm. There should be more stick and less carrot.

Yeah that's the point. Cut them off.

I actually heard two wans giving out about some guy they knew, "sure who does he think he is gettin a job? Does he think he's better than us? Lettin the bleedin family down so he is". I wish I was exaggerating

MonkieSocks

We should use Tranquilliser Darts on them.

Then Tag a few of them and try to understand their migratory routes and residency patterns and mating practises,

Giving birth and feeding, as well as locations where they are vulnerable to destruction.

By characterizing and identifying these hot spots,

we can help supply policy makers with the data they need to implement effective management strategies that will get rid of this species once and for all.