UPC Broadband and Third Party Routers

Padgeman

Hi all.

Don't even know if this is the right subforum to post this! I'm having a bit of a strange issue with my UPC connection here in Dublin, basically I am trying to use a third party router because frankly the Wi-Fi on the UPC router I have isn't all that, and it isn't working properly.

I have put my UPC router, a Technicolor TC7200U, into bridge mode through a post I found here on Boards, UPC didn't exactly make it easy. I also disabled the Wi-Fi on the UPC router; I basically want it to act as a modem, and let the firewall, NAT and routing happen on my other router.

This is where it starts to get difficult to explain properly. The other router, the simply excellent Asus RT-AC68U, worked fine on the Eircom connection I used to have. For traffic inside my own network, all is well. This Asus is configured to connect using DHCP, and the WAN address this router has seems ok, it's not a private address. For the most part, it's working fine, I can get online and that's cool.

However, every now and then, I can no longer access anything outside my own network. All the lights stay on on the UPC router, and the Wi-Fi on the Asus router keeps working fine. Again, all the traffic inside my network is fine. I just cannot reach anything outside. Attempting to use traceroute on Linux shows that traffic is reaching my router and going no further. Asking the Asus router to renew its DHCP lease fixes it, even though I am reassigned the same IP address. The amount of time it takes to get to this stage seems to be variable, but it is happening regularly: it's happened twice three times so far writing this post.

It seems like it isn't happening when I have the Asus set up to get a private WAN address from the UPC box, but then my network has two layers of NAT, which is messing up some of the stuff I'm running. I cannot disable the NAT on the UPC router for the life of me, putting it in bridge mode has disabled a lot of the stuff that's there when the router is in 'normal' mode. Having said that, there's no option to disable the NAT even when the router is in normal mode.

Does anyone have any ideas about a fix for this? Would a call to UPC help? I figured the best I would get from them is "We can't help with third party routers, you're on your own". Thanks!

Dave..M

UPC defo won't help you. You have confirmed that the Asus is getting a public IP (and the TC is connected to the blue WAN port on the Asus, sorry!!) and presumably you have connected directly to the TC also when the Asus has dropped to confirm that the TC is still connecting to the internet and providing a public IP on its LAN (the same as given to the Asus originally) so it's got to be the Asus, is it an IPv6 address provided by UPC by any chance that for some reason is confusing the Asus? Seems unlikely on such a recent and top end router but you never know. After that it should be plug and play (unless you had some DHCP or NAT settings adjusted from when it was connected to the Eircom router), can you still log onto the admin console when it is causing issues and check if it's assigning DHCP ok, is there anything in its log files ? Do you have the most recent firmware ? Etc....

macken.ie

What happens if you switch the TC7200 back to router mode and just disable the wifi on the tc7200?

As I said in the previous thread, there definitely seems to be some compatibility issue with Asus routers and the TC7200 in bridge mode. I've only ever seen this problem with Asus routers, any other brands I've used have been fine.

UPC don't officially support the TC7200 in bridge mode (as far as they're concerned, it's a hack) so it's very unlikely they'll help you. Maybe if you could coax them to give you the Cisco EPC3925 instead?

Padgeman

Dave..M wrote: »

UPC defo won't help you.

"Sorry, we can't really help with any of the issues you're experiencing, maybe call our 1550 number for €1.45 a minute and they'll help?"
You were right

You have confirmed that the Asus is getting a public IP (and the TC is connected to the blue WAN port on the Asus, sorry!!)

Yes and yes, the WAN port was the first thing I checked, that kind of mistake is not unheard of!

presumably you have connected directly to the TC also when the Asus has dropped to confirm that the TC is still connecting to the internet and providing a public IP on its LAN (the same as given to the Asus originally)

I have yep, and it does still connect just fine. I've tried with a second, less new router, and it shows the same issues

is it an IPv6 address provided by UPC by any chance that for some reason is confusing the Asus?

I don't actually think UPC give out IPv6 addresses at all, I'm more than willing to be proven wrong on this!

After that it should be plug and play (unless you had some DHCP or NAT settings adjusted from when it was connected to the Eircom router)

Gave the Technicolor, the Asus and the AirPort factory resets before I started any of this, there aren't any residual settings lying around.

can you still log onto the admin console when it is causing issues and check if it's assigning DHCP ok, is there anything in its log files ? Do you have the most recent firmware ? Etc....

I can yes, and it looks like everything is fine, there's no mention of the connection stopping anywhere in the logs, and fully up to date on everything.

macken.ie wrote: »

What happens if you switch the TC7200 back to router mode and just disable the wifi on the tc7200?

Works fine, but that feels like a crappy solution. I know both the Asus and the AirPort work, I tested them both on an Eircom connection at the weekend with an Eircom router in bridge mode, no problem.

Karsini wrote: »

As I said in the previous thread, there definitely seems to be some compatibility issue with Asus routers and the TC7200 in bridge mode. I've only ever seen this problem with Asus routers, any other brands I've used have been fine.

I thought I was clever, I managed to get an Apple AirPort Extreme for free off a friend, so I tried using that in lieu of the Asus in this setup.

When I set the AirPort Extreme to DHCP mode, it goes and gets an IP address just fine, and everything in the house works just as it should. I can even jump onto my webserver from outside no problem. But every 15 minutes or so, I have to open AirPort Utility and hit the Renew WAN DHCP Lease button, or else I am silently disconnected from the internet. The light on the front of the AirPort doesn't even turn to amber, the attached screenshot shows what happens.

UPC don't officially support the TC7200 in bridge mode (as far as they're concerned, it's a hack) so it's very unlikely they'll help you. Maybe if you could coax them to give you the Cisco EPC3925 instead?

On the phone they basically told me straight that if I was gonna get another router at all, it would be another TC7200, this router sucks. They said that they've basically totally discontinued the Cisco, so the TC7200 is all they have going now.

This is really incredibly frustrating. Being told to call a premium rate number if I want proper help is annoying too. Thanks for all the help lads, it's very much appreciated! I'm now totally at a loss of what to do, the fifteen minute disconnects thing is driving me crazy.

macken.ie

How about setting the tc7200 back to router mode and setting the Asus RT-AC68U as an access point? Its a pity not to be able to use such a good router as the Asus.

wiz569

Try reading through this from post #632 it might help you out m8

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056950728&page=43

Dave..M

A strange one.

You could try posting on SNB's forum, it's based over the pond but someone there may be able to help.

http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/index.php

white_westie

I seem to be one of the lucky ones with a working tc7200 in bridge mode feeding an asus rt-n16.

Only suggestion I have is to use snmp method to change the oid to switch your tc7200 into bridge mode, rather than the hidden menu option.
see post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88052622&postcount=1
I could not get the windows tools working so I used a linux live cd to run the snmpset command.
Make sure to have your upc coaxial cable disconnected while doing it - it seems to make a difference.
Also just a warning, I'm not sure if you can reset the tc7200 back to router mode, if you use the change oid method!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89059646&postcount=148

Every time the modem is rebooted I can see 'invalid oid' messages in the log, but it has no effect on it working.
Running like this for 6 months now. Have had wan address subnet change a few times during this time, as well as getting UPC to fix a download speed problem in our area which involved many reboots from their end, and it's still working!

I'm wondering about this now, as a colleague of mine is having the same 15 minute disconnect problem with a Belkin router on a TC7200. I wonder if it might be area-specific now? Maybe down to different CMTS hardware?

white_westie

Don't understand how the network actually hangs together, but the download speed problem I referred to earlier was something I noticed around the time UPC started switching on the free wifi on everyone's router. Download speed would drop drastically during the evening and weekends - they seemed to have fixed it about 2 weeks ago.

Also just noticed some update on the thread over at smallnetbuilder http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showthread.php?t=8433
Seems more people are coming to the conclusion that ASUS might have borked something in their firmware during the year!

Padgeman

Thanks for the replies all, really appreciate the help!

white_westie wrote: »

Only suggestion I have is to use snmp method to change the oid to switch your tc7200 into bridge mode, rather than the hidden menu option.
see post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88052622&postcount=1

I'll give it a go sure, but the fact that you might not be able to go back makes me slightly uneasy.

white_westie wrote: »

Seems more people are coming to the conclusion that ASUS might have borked something in their firmware during the year!

I've abandoned my Asus for now, I'm using an Apple AirPort Extreme instead, too many people were complaining of issues with the Asus and the infernal TC7200.

Karsini wrote: »

I'm wondering about this now, as a colleague of mine is having the same 15 minute disconnect problem with a Belkin router on a TC7200. I wonder if it might be area-specific now? Maybe down to different CMTS hardware?

What area is the colleague in? I'm in Terenure in Dublin 6 fwiw. UPC engineer is here tomorrow to have a look after my 80th call to support, might try and bribe him to get a Cisco

Padgeman

Padgeman wrote: »

Thanks for the replies all, really appreciate the help!



I'll give it a go sure, but the fact that you might not be able to go back makes me slightly uneasy.



I've abandoned my Asus for now, I'm using an Apple AirPort Extreme instead, too many people were complaining of issues with the Asus and the infernal TC7200.



What area is the colleague in? I'm in Terenure in Dublin 6 fwiw. UPC engineer is here tomorrow to have a look after my 80th call to support, might try and bribe him to get a Cisco

You can definitely go back via the web interface - http://192.168.100.1/system/switch-mode.asp

He's in Drynam near Swords.

Dermot McDonnell

Update the firmware on your devices, I know the Asus has a recent firmware release. Apologies, I cannot post the link on the Asus site, easy to find though. See the firmware change logs. These issues can be notoriously difficult to isolate.

Padgeman

white_westie wrote: »

Only suggestion I have is to use snmp method to change the oid to switch your tc7200 into bridge mode, rather than the hidden menu option.
see post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88052622&postcount=1
I could not get the windows tools working so I used a linux live cd to run the snmpset command.
Make sure to have your upc coaxial cable disconnected while doing it - it seems to make a difference.

That has fixed it, my dear god! I saw that but the fact that you apparently couldn't revert really put me off doing it. Having said that, now that it's fixed I couldn't really give a **** either way! It's been on for over an hour and not a single disconnect, you guys are ****ing amazing, thank you all so much!

xerophyll

Padgeman wrote: »

That has fixed it, my dear god! I saw that but the fact that you apparently couldn't revert really put me off doing it. Having said that, now that it's fixed I couldn't really give a **** either way! It's been on for over an hour and not a single disconnect, you guys are ****ing amazing, thank you all so much!

so after a few weeks now, would u mind sharing with us how's your setup has been going so far? any disconnections or any mishaps?

Padgeman

xerophyll wrote: »

so after a few weeks now, would u mind sharing with us how's your setup has been going so far? any disconnections or any mishaps?

The setup is perfect. The AirPort Extreme does everything, the UPC ****box is acting as a cable modem only, so I never have any dealings with that anymore, my internet is up and on 100% of the time, there has been 0 downtime since I made that change a couple of weeks ago, not a single disconnection. I've even had the same IP address the whole time, so I didn't even have to put dyndns on my web server!

Calibos

The only thing that turned my EPC3925 sh!tbox from zero to hero was its ability within the firmware with no messing about to bridge. I cringe when I hear of people giving back their 3925's to UPC in the hopes of better from their other sh!tboxes.

When we initially got in UPC BB when it became available in My area of Bray I was getting a Max of 80mb on my 100mb connection with an average of about 60-70mb. I was getting several disconnects a day too.

Soon as I rigged up a spare 120mm PC fan powered off the EPC's USB socket to cool the thing, the disconnects stopped and a few days later when I connected up my new Asus Router my connection speed jumped to a consistent 105/10mb 24/7/365. 125/10mb since the 120mb upgrade.

I hope they save enough on the cheap underpowered hardware to pay for all the support costs they incur.

ED E

Cooling solved it for me too, so its definitely one to try.

Calibos

ED E wrote: »

Cooling solved it for me too, so its definitely one to try.

Thats Cool (Pardon the Pun )

This was your last post in your disconnect thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90647047&postcount=337

Thus I thought that the EPC Cooling Drum I've been banging for a couple of years now at this stage still only had one anecdotal success. ie. mine

So you had no further disconnects/speed drops since that time in May then? If so thats great going given the long hot Summer we've had. Next real test is Winter when the central heating is on in the house.

So that makes 2 of us its worked for. I wish more people would try it.