Tips for riding with an inexperienced pillion?

underwaterdog

Has anyone any tips/advice for riding with an inexperienced pillion passenger?

galwaytt

underwaterdog wrote: »

Has anyone any tips/advice for riding with an inexperienced pillion passenger?

Please DON'T do what so many do: tear off and try to scare them. It's not smart, and is not funny.

I've started bringing my now 11 year old out on the road and here's my tips.

Make them comfortable. preferably in the dry.
Short trip to start.
communicate with them. Talk/shout/pull over and ask.
Less dramatic trips to start - forget flip-flipping at roundabouts. ... corners are what frightens them most, so v v gently in & out. Eventually they'll get the natural feeling of leaning and you can get more adventurous.

above all: be smooth, smooth, smooth. On acceleration, braking, everything.

Blondie919

Make sure that they know you are the boss. In charge and in control.

cantdecide

If they're inclined to lean the wrong way or too much or too little, tell them to shut their eyes while taking some corners.

Muahahaha

Tell them to-
-not lean at all
-always leave feet on the pegs
-always get on/off from the left to avoid contact with a piping hot exhaust, tell them about the exhaust, warn them to have their legs clear of it because if they get a serious burn their reaction might destabilise the bike
-to push forward into the drivers body, even putting hands inside your jacket pockets if it helps. Never leave a gap between the two riders or the bike may become unstable, you want to be acting as one unit together
-not to get on or off the bike until the driver gives the instruction to do so. This is especially important when you arrive somewhere and pull in- a pillion can just decide to hop off as soon as the bike comes to a stop and if the driver isn't expecting a sudden change in balance of the bike then both of ye can come crashing down with the bike on top.
-never to put their feet down on the ground when you're stopped at traffic lights, only the driver should be stabilising the bike. If they do this there is a good chance of exhaust burn when putting their feet back on the pegs.

Finally I'd say one more thing that might be forgotten about- make sure you adjust the chin strap on the helmet to fit underneath their chin. It's probably something that I've forgotten to do myself in the past but if I take a passenger now (which is rare) I always ensure the chin strap is done up because a non-biker will not know the importance of this and if I ever did have an accident with a pillion on the back and their helmet came flying off and they suffered brain damage all because I didn't check the chinstrap then I don't know how I'd live with myself.

So check the chin strap, you owe your passenger that at a very minimum.

Idleater

Tell them to be like a sack of spuds.

Also, another one I heard was to encourage them to wave hellos to others eg oncoming bikers, kids in buggys going through villages etc.
The latter helps relax them, makes them feel included and in a small way shows others that people enjoy themselves when on a motorbike.

Max Headroom

Sit facing forward and stop trying to get the knee down.........:D

I'm assuming that the op is the one looking for advise for himself......get them to hold your waist and lean with you not against....relax and concentrate on what YOU are doing....

inchiuvatu

took my 8 year old nephew out for his first bike ride only about 300m to eddie rockets and then back.... on the way up i got him to "hug like a koala" the whole time even if he felt comfortable, so he could gets used to the motion... on the way back i got him to sit up more naturally and hold on to the straps on the side of my jacket and he was fine.. (he did lean agains a turn but to be fair there was only about 4 corners in the whole trip)

on the way back when i knew he was happy sitting still, i accelerated out for the lights at normal speed but instead of shifting up to 4th i left it in 1st and second we went no faster than normal but the noise made him think we were going a million miles an hour and he loved it (but everyone reacts differently so might not suit whoever you pillion)

if you pillion is an adult you need to explain to them that their weight effects how the bike handles and if they start fidgetting they will likely put you off balance, i found the trick was for them to do everything equal on both side so if they needed to stretch a leg do both legs at the same time.. or if they slide down the seat use BOTH legs to help bring there body back into position (they wont get it at first but will help them become good pillions)

Also get them to sit up into the middle of the seat and not hang over see in front of you. i had to demonstrate to my GF how she was causing the bike to constantly pull to the right.

i personally wouldn't ask my pillions to lean With me, but to just sit still on the bike and not to lean against the turn, having an over enthusiastic passenger trying to get there knee down round corners can become hard to account for when going for a spin.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Ask them do they like wheelies

Pugzilla

Muahahaha wrote: »

Tell them to-
-not lean at all

This is stupid and potentially dangerous advice. What happens when you take a sharp corner which requires you to lean over? If the passenger doesn't lean with you, there's good chance of a lowside.

The passengers should lean when you lean. Basically just copy your movements on the bike

Greenmachine

Some memory there for me. Used to ride around with a friend on the back of mine a bit.
He was a devil for getting off without warning when we stopped. He was about 18 stone and me half of that. Serious bounce from the suspension if he got off to suddenly. The fecker had his own bike but didn't appreciate how much the thing bounced when he got off.

Muahahaha

Pugzilla wrote: »

This is stupid and potentially dangerous advice. What happens when you take a sharp corner which requires you to lean over? If the passenger doesn't lean with you, there's good chance of a lowside.

The passengers should lean when you lean. Basically just copy your movements on the bike

My advice was given in the context of a pillion I had before who thought it was their job to lean into the corners and did so with such enthusiasm that the two of us nearly came off.

In my experience of pillions (which is limited admittedly) if it is their first ever time on a bike the best thing you can get them to do is to sit like a sack of spuds and do nothing. Adjust your own riding to compensate for them not leaning, you know they are not going to be leaning because you told them not to.

Also just to put 'leaning' into context I'm not saying that I instruct them to always keep their body upright as we're cornering, what I'm telling them is not not move their body at all and just go with the flow.

In any case my bet is that if you have an inexperienced pillion it is far more dangerous for them to think that they have to get their knee to the ground than it is to tell them to keep as upright as possible. By telling them to sit still and go with the flow of what the driver is doing you find a happy medium between those two extremes.

The other thing I'd say is that you spoke of "what happens when you take a sharp corner and need to lean over", for me riding with a pillion is a much great responsibility than riding alone. I adjust my riding style will pillions, not only do I not go as fast as I would alone I also use the full width of road (within safe bounds) more than I would when I ride alone. So when I approach a sharp corner I move to near the center of the road and hit the corner near it's apex on the left, pretty much a racing line but without the racing speed. That way neither of us are leaning for long, even on sharpish bends.

Anyway each to their own, find your own techniques and comforts. But never do anything g riding wise that you might regret for the rest of your life if you leave a good friend or family member disabled or worse. No amount of showing off is worth that risk IMO.

AgileMyth

Pugzilla wrote: »

This is stupid and potentially dangerous advice. What happens when you take a sharp corner which requires you to lean over? If the passenger doesn't lean with you, there's good chance of a lowside.

The passengers should lean when you lean. Basically just copy your movements on the bike

My girlfriend is asleep on the back half the time. Hows she supposed to copy me?!

We haven't had a lowside in the couple of thousand miles we've done together.

Pugzilla

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyway each to their own, find your own techniques and comforts. But never do anything g riding wise that you might regret for the rest of your life if you leave a good friend or family member disabled or worse. No amount of showing off is worth that risk IMO.

Don't be so condescending. Where did I mention I was showing off? It's impossible to make any corner at reasonable speed without some degree of countersteering and hence leaning over. Better to teach a pillion the correct way from the start. They aren't suitable to be a pillion if they aren't willing to lean with you.


Also, to the idiots on this thread who carry young children on their bikes...............Did they have properly fitting helmets, jackets, trousers, gloves and boots? I doubt it. If a adult gets on a bike without proper protection atleast they're aware of the risk and accept that. A child, however, has no concept of how bad road rash can be.

Muahahaha

Pugzilla wrote: »

Don't be so condescending. Where did I mention I was showing off? It's impossible to make any corner at reasonable speed without some degree of countersteering and hence leaning over. Better to teach a pillion the correct way from the start. They aren't suitable to be a pillion if they aren't willing to lean with you.


Also, to the idiots on this thread who carry young children on their bikes...............Did they have properly fitting helmets, jackets, trousers, gloves and boots? I doubt it. If a adult gets on a bike without proper protection atleast they're aware of the risk and accept that. A child, however, has no concept of how bad road rash can be.

I think you're being a bit over sensitive there mate, the comment on showing off wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular. I'm just relating my own experience, I've been there and done that and taken pillions for wild rides showing off. I was younger back then and now with a few more years on me I realise it was a dumb move because if something went wrong then not only have you hurt a good friend through being irresponsible but you've also got to live with the consequences of that. Pillions are far more likely to be wearing jeans, runners, etc too so in the event an accident everyone will blame the rider for not ensuring they were adequately protected.

Pugzilla

AgileMyth wrote: »

My girlfriend is asleep on the back half the time. Hows she supposed to copy me?!

We haven't had a lowside in the couple of thousand miles we've done together.

When she's asleep then she will lean with the bike anyways. Ever heard of gravity?

AND If she's snoozing when she's getting the ride, maybe some viagra is in order.

Pugzilla

Muahahaha wrote: »

I think you're being a bit over sensitive there mate, the comment on showing off wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular. I'm just relating my own experience, I've been there and done that and taken pillions for wild rides showing off. I was younger back then and now with a few more years on me I realise it was a dumb move because if something went wrong then not only have you hurt a good friend through being irresponsible but you've also got to live with the consequences of that. Pillions are far more likely to be wearing jeans, runners, etc too so in the event an accident everyone will blame the rider for not ensuring they were adequately protected.

Not everyone is dumb like you.......You shouldn't let someone on a bike without full gear.

Muahahaha

Pugzilla wrote: »

Not everyone is dumb like you.......

Name calling, the tactic of eight year olds the world over :rolleyes:

Pugzilla

Muahahaha wrote: »

it was a dumb move

You said it yourself. If you make a dumb move, you're dumb....

Esel

Simple answer: keep your upper body close to mine; lean when I do, and as I do.

As someone said above: keep your feet on the footrests.

AgileMyth wrote: »

My girlfriend is asleep on the back half the time. Hows she supposed to copy me?!

We haven't had a lowside in the couple of thousand miles we've done together.

2,000 miles is nothing. Post back if/when you both have done more than 10,000 miles.

Max Headroom

Man i love it when people cant help but slag off or argue that someone is stupid because they dont agree with others comments/advise.....grow up ffs...:rolleyes:

PlayerA

I agree with muahahaha there, instead of telling them to lean, I prefer to ask them not to resist against the turn and to relax.

I was a pillion for years on my brother's bike, got given out several times for being too enthusiastic on the bends and I finally learnt to go with the flow. Now that I am riding with pillion I understand why he was saying so.

inchiuvatu

Pugzilla wrote: »

Also, to the idiots on this thread who carry young children on their bikes...............Did they have properly fitting helmets, jackets, trousers, gloves and boots? I doubt it.

Yes he did have proper fitting gear... I don't know what you think gives you the right to preach over the rest of us lowly mortals but keep it to yourself, if you have an opinion share it but don't go throwing your toys out of the pram because people didn't agree with you.

Pugzilla

inchiuvatu wrote: »

Yes he did have proper fitting gear... I don't know what you think gives you the right to preach over the rest of us lowly mortals but keep it to yourself, if you have an opinion share it but don't go throwing your toys out of the pram because people didn't agree with you.

Where in Ireland can you get bike gear for a child? Did you go into the shop with him and get the kid to try gear on? Stop with the BS.

It's not opinion if it's fact. Having the pillion lean with the rider is the only correct way to safely carry them. That's why an 8 year or 11 year kid doesn't belong on the back of a bike.

blu3r0ri0n

Pugzilla wrote: »

Where in Ireland can you get bike gear for a child? Did you go into the shop with him and get the kid to try gear on? Stop with the BS.

It's not opinion if it's fact. Having the pillion lean with the rider is the only correct way to safely carry them. That's why an 8 year or 11 year kid doesn't belong on the back of a bike.

Plenty of shops stock gear for kids, plus nothing stopping anyone from ordering online


Regarding leaning off the bike with a pillion, which I think is what you are getting at; if you do need to lean off the bike with a pillion then you are going too fast for public roads to start off with never mind with a pillion.

Pugzilla

blu3r0ri0n wrote: »

Plenty of shops stock gear for kids, plus nothing stopping anyone from ordering online


Regarding leaning off the bike with a pillion, which I think is what you are getting at; if you do need to lean off the bike with a pillion then you are going too fast for public roads to start off with never mind with a pillion.

You cant really order online without trying gear on first. Not much in the way of kids gear in way of kids gear in the big Dublin shops I've visited.

I'm not talking about knee dragging. You can lean on a bike without hanging off it.

blu3r0ri0n

Pugzilla wrote: »

You cant really order online without trying gear on first. Not much in the way of kids gear in way of kids gear in the big Dublin shops I've visited.

The two local shops in carlow and kilkenny do stock them, haven't been to any in any Dublin shops recently.

You can always send it back, there are online stores that will exchange no questions asked, and by reading reviews etc. you can get the size right 9 out of 10 times, I have been ordering my gear online for a while now and never had any issues except for a helmet size once and got it replaced without any hassle, albeit it cost me an extra 10 quid to send it back. Regardless, when its your kid you wont care about the extra few quid to pay.

Pugzilla wrote: »

I'm not talking about knee dragging. You can lean on a bike without hanging off it.

Why would you lean on a bike when there is absolutely no need to, especially when carrying a pillion?The only reason you would lean on a bike is to reduce the actual lean angle of the bike therefore getting more Tyre surface on the road and unless you are going fast your not going to need to do that?

AgileMyth

Esel wrote: »

2,000 miles is nothing. Post back if/when you both have done more than 10,000 miles.

Didn't realise it was a contest! We're probably closer to 3000.

Id hazard a guess we're a few years younger than you too :P

galwaytt

Pugzilla wrote: »

Where in Ireland can you get bike gear for a child? Did you go into the shop with him and get the kid to try gear on? Stop with the BS.

It's not opinion if it's fact. Having the pillion lean with the rider is the only correct way to safely carry them. That's why an 8 year or 11 year kid doesn't belong on the back of a bike.

If you can't figure out where to get it, that's no right to condescend to those of us who have figured out where to buy it. And use it.

And who belongs on the back of a bike - in your opinion, that is.

The moral High Ground is thataway. --->>>>>>>>

Roadskill

Back on subject for the op. This is an article from MCN regarding carrying a pillion.

How many times have you seen a pillion wearing some shonky old lid and casual clothing while the rider is dressed in top-of-the-range safety gear? There’s no reason to treat your pillion’s health and comfort any less seriously than your own so make sure they’re kitted out with a decent, good-fitting helmet and proper protective gear. The same goes for having wet/cold weather clothing available if necessary. And why not treat them to a new set of earplugs while you’re at it?
What about the bike?

The main thing to do is increase the rear shock’s spring pre-load (this type of adjustment is available on almost all bikes nowadays) to compensate for the weight increase over the rear wheel. This will keep the bike’s steering geometry in the right ballpark by stopping the rear end sagging excessively and will retain a decent amount of ground clearance. If the front suspension is adjustable, extra preload plus a little more compression damping will help reduce fork dive when the extra weight is transferred to the front under braking. Fitting a grab-handle is something to consider if there isn’t one already fitted as standard and you’re going to be carrying a passenger on a regular basis.

Are there such things as pillion specific bikes?

If a bike has a dual seat and rear footpegs then it can safely carry a passenger at any time, but that doesn’t mean it’ll be comfortable. Sports bikes increasingly fail to take a pillion’s needs into account, with tiny, hard seat pads and peg positions that can put your passenger in a near-squatting position. Put yourself in their position and plan for more frequent leg-stretching stops than you might normally. If a lot of your riding is to be with a passenger, then hopefully you will have chosen a more suitable machine. Almost anything other than a sports bike will a) have had some proper thought put into passenger ergonomics such as the provision of a well-padded, supportive seat and b) won’t have its finely balanced steering badly upset by a load of extra weight on the back. It’ll also have a more flexible engine, with the kind of mid-range power you need for hauling extra weight without excessive gearchanging.

 

1. Novice pillions are nervous pillions. Calm their nerves by briefing them on what to expect. Start by explaining how you want them to climb on to the bike so they don’t suddenly put all their weight on one peg and have you topple over. Also show them where and how to hold on – many bikes have special grabrails behind the pillion seat.

2. Assure the passenger it’s OK to speak up – or scream up if necessary – if they’re not happy with your speed or are suffering discomfort. After a short distance, stop and explain – especially with first timers – how to avoid head-butting or back slams under braking and ask if they have any worries, like should the exhaust really be that hot?

 

3. In order to look after your pillion’s back muscles and mental wellbeing, use the bike’s controls smoothly. Change up and down the gears lower down the rev range so acceleration and deceleration are less violent. Also, learn to ‘blip’ the throttle on the way down the box and go for clean, rapid or even clutchless changes on the way up.

 

4. Politely explain that they shouldn’t wriggle or move about as this can distract you or even put the bike off-line. If they need to pull jeans out of their butt cleft, do so by distributing their weight evenly between the pegs as they do so. Not putting their feet down until stationary will also prevent embarrassing losses of balance.

 

5. If a passenger understands what is about to happen then they will be a lot more mentally comfortable. Work out a simple code between the two of you (eg the rider tapping twice on the pillion’s left leg can mean ‘accelerating hard’, or a simple squeeze of the thigh and brief look behind could mean ‘how are you doing?’

 

6. As the rider, you are responsible for another life so don’t mess with it. What you may consider to be a safe and everyday riding style – such as getting your knee down – is a different game with a pillion. They only have to twitch, or lose their grip and you could both be in trouble.

 

7. Experimentation on how best a pillion should hold on is good, especially if there are no grab rails on the bike. A good way is to use a ‘pillion pal’ (above). It’s a belt with handles worn around the rider’s waist. There’s always a chance your pillion has experience of two-up riding so don’t dismiss their views on how they should hold on.

 

8. If you’re having problems with the pillion banging into the back of you when braking, try to get them to brace themselves by reaching one arm around you to place a palm against the back of the tank. Make sure that they either have a second hold elsewhere though, or be ready to grasp you around the waist if you suddenly accelerate.

 

9. Having the extra weight of a pillion over the back of the bike changes its every dynamic. The front wheel is more likely to lift in the lower gears – not so much fun mid-corner – and as it has less load over the front, the bike is more likely to ‘push’ on the brakes and run wide into turns. Progressive, smooth use of throttle and brakes can mitigate these risks.

 

10. Your bike is going to take longer to stop with the extra weight, so use all your anticipation skills to give you more time and room. If you have to stop suddenly, build up brake power quickly but steadily. Grip the tank with your thighs and sit up to give your pillion a softer, larger wall to run into.

 

11. Explain to your pillion how to move their bodyweight – eg as the rider begins to brake, lean back and vice versa from the waist when they get on the gas. A good tip is to get the pillion to sit still and simply stare at the back of the rider’s head and let it all happen natural-like.

 

12. The most common pillion question is: ‘do I lean with the rider?’ The answer is yes, but don’t carried away. Pillions will be least intrusive if they just lean naturally with the bike, with their back at the same angle to vertical as the angle of the bike. Overleaning or underleaning  may affect the handling of the bike in a way the rider doesn’t expect.

blu3r0ri0n

^^
Read that on MCN too, some good advice.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/mcn/ridingevents/ridingeventsresults/riding-skills/2006/november/aug17-05-how-to-ride-with-a-pillion-incorrect-pics/

peckerhead

Excellent. Reading through the thread, I was nodding assent to various comments, but those 12 bullet-points explain really well a whole range of little details that I hadn't thought of but which instantly ring a bell. Worth a sticky, mods, under the Learner/Newbie Sticky? Or a link maybe?

It's great bringing a mate/OH out for a nice spin, but I always kind of dread it as well, and I drive like I was doing my test all over again (...holy shít, I just calculated how many years ago that was! :eek:).

And I've never liked riding pillion myself, even with drivers I knew I could trust. At best, it's pretty boring, especially on longer trips.

Being stuck on the back with a fool that you don't trust and/or who is likely to start showing off is just plain horrible.

Pugzilla

galwaytt wrote: »

If you can't figure out where to get it, that's no right to condescend to those of us who have figured out where to buy it. And use it.

And who belongs on the back of a bike - in your opinion, that is.

The moral High Ground is thataway. --->>>>>>>>

It's the internetz, not my problem if you got sand in your vagina.

Castro street is thataway. --->>>>>>>>

Esel

^ Sand?man: 'zilla, you have just compromised your traction witth that post.

Apolog/explan street is thataway. --->>

DLMA23

Nice post Roadskill, thanks for sharing

Alanooh

I got one of them pillion hold on straps it helped a lot.

Check Morrisonbhp.net (Cork online store) thats were I got mine, well wort it if carrying a pillion a lot.

Esel

Alanooh wrote: »

I got one of them pillion hold on straps it helped a lot.

Check Morrisonbhp.net (Cork online store) thats were I got mine, well wort it if carrying a pillion a lot.

Yeah, every little helps. A strap that could trap a hand could be a deathtrap though... No experience of the one you mentioned, BTW.

The content of Roadskill's post #30 above is worth a read, then a reread or three.