Repeat Short Intervals

harringtonp

This question is more aimed at those using power meters.

When doing repeat short intervals such as 2 or 3 minutes do you do each interval as hard as you can and accept the substantial power drop as the intervals progress (rest period 2/3 minutes) or do you try and pace yourself over the intervals so that for the last one or 2 you are just missing your target average watts ?

Inquitus

harringtonp wrote: »

This question is more aimed at those using power meters.

When doing repeat short intervals such as 2 or 3 minutes do you do each interval as hard as you can and accept the substantial power drop as the intervals progress (rest period 2/3 minutes) or do you try and pace yourself over the intervals so that for the last one or 2 you are just missing your target average watts ?

I find if you know your FTP, Trainerroad has a variety of interval sessions that use your FTP to craft achievable power for each interval, so that your power output is the same for each rather than an ever declining value the more fúcked you get.

e.g.

harringtonp

Generally tend to do steady myself so if for example I am doing 6x2 minutes with 2 min rest I usually know the number that is easy enough to hit for the first 2, hard to hit for the next 2 and usually a little too hard to hit for the last 1 or 2. If I hit it for all six intervals for a couple of those particular workouts I increase it the next time I do that workout.

Was wondering do others approach it in the same way or go for the all out sharp drop off approach ?

harringtonp

harringtonp wrote: »

This question is more aimed at those using power meters.

When doing repeat short intervals such as 2 or 3 minutes do you do each interval as hard as you can and accept the substantial power drop as the intervals progress (rest period 2/3 minutes) or do you try and pace yourself over the intervals so that for the last one or 2 you are just missing your target average watts ?

Any more replies, there must be quite a few out there with PM's doing intevals ?

Both ways are valid but I am just looking to see what way individuals approach them.

Beasty

Based on my power records I could work out what I could sustain over the interval without any repeats so I would target something below that with a view to being able to get to the same overall average during each interval, and hopefully push it up at the end. Next time, if fully rested, I would target something slightly higher

Inquitus

harringtonp wrote: »

Any more replies, there must be quite a few out there with PM's doing intevals ?

Both ways are valid but I am just looking to see what way individuals approach them.

I prefer a calculated average to aim at, as its more of a target for me than the sliding approach. i.e. I know I should be able to do 10 x 30 secs @ 200% FTP, so I will give everything to ensure I hit the number, if I can't then perhaps it needs revising down, too easy and maybe up it a little. But if you have a good idea of your FTP you should be able to calculate accurate intervals.

morana

I used to just give it everything in the interval. when the power declined too much the session was over. I wasnt concerned about doing a number of reps it was just the numbers I hit in the interval that was for the short sharp ones

thebouldwhacker

Intervals on turbo or road are for improvment, pacing oneself at the start automatically reduces the effectivness of them. For me, start flat out and maintain as best as you can, this will train the body for improvment. Settling a below max effort at the start will let you finish with style which is nice to show off to your friends but for best results you should be falling off the bike at the end after giving 100% for the entire section, not 80, then 90 and hitting 100% for the last bit.

For me you improve what you train. That said I use hrm not pm and most of my intervals were for hills and distance endurance, but I use sufferfest and hills, hills, hills and it worked for me. I have changed focus to speed in the last two weeks and have noticed an improvement in this already.
Pacing is for groups and performance, flat out is for training and improving.

But hey, that's only my unqualified approach and seeing as it has yet to cast me amongst the cycling greats it may well be wrong. However I do believe a good approach is that at the end of such training you should only be left with enough energy to get you to the shower.....

eeeee

I go all out from the start and attempt to not drop off too far as the aim throughout the session. My 4 th one is usually the best though. I like to feel dead after intervals otherwise I don't see the point. I have neither a hrm nor pm, just a speedo though.

doozerie

My entirely unqualified opinion: it depends entirely on what you are trying to achieve.

If I am doing threshold intervals (each interval is set at my FTP) then if I can’t sustain that through to the end it suggests to me that I’ve perhaps been training too hard (or not sleeping enough, or not eating well enough, etc.) and need a rest (or maybe it is time to re-test my FTP). At some point I’ll do an FTP test again and use the results of that to determine my current FTP.

If I am doing VO2Max intervals, I push to achieve the target figure for each interval but accept that for later intervals I might not get there. If I can sustain the level comfortably for each interval, and can repeat this for at least two sessions in a row, then it’s time to consider increasing the target figure a little (or choose a tougher workout) for the next time. If I reset my FTP then my VO2Max intervals change in line with that too.

Like Inquitus, I use TrainerRoad a lot and use various of the (many) workouts that they have in their database. That works well for me on the turbo - where “well” means that I end up feeling stronger, even if I don’t have improved race results to support that. When on the road I find it a lot harder to train so specifically with power so I think I get less from a session on the road than I do from a session of similar duration on the turbo. If I want to virtually fall off the bike utterly knackered then I have to do a turbo session, I just can’t seem to achieve that sustained level of intensity on the road (not even in races), but I accept that I may be broken.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Depends on what you are tailoring the session for and what your weaknesses are that need worked on. Every session should have a purpose, working on threshold, endurance, anaerobic capacity or sprinting?

For me any intervals under 3mins and above 30sec are targeting anaerobic improvements (which will help deal with surges in a race) These type of intervals in their nature will hurt but you should be able to hit each interval the same, if not you are tired or your assumption of current FTP is incorrect. Typically these type of sessions are focussed on 120-150% of FTP or 300w-375w based on an FTP of 250w (for illustrative purposes).

As a guidline this is what should be followed assuming you are working off accurate FTP numbers. The testing protocol of a T20 *.95 does not work for everyone, some will be .925 or even .90 of the T20 number, using NP in an hour balls out race or TT would be a good benchmark to use.

xxx FTP no and sessions are,
90-105% - LT focus 8-30mins
106-120% - V02 max focus 3-8mins
121-150% - Anaerobic focus 30sec-3mins
above that is sprinting/NP 30secs below
& below all of the above, your typical recovery, endurance and tempo rides

harringtonp

Thanks Lads, fairly even split there. Counted 4 going for the steady approach and 3 the all out sharp dropoff.

harringtonp

gadetra wrote: »

I go all out from the start and attempt to not drop off too far as the aim throughout the session. My 4 th one is usually the best though. I like to feel dead after intervals otherwise I don't see the point. I have neither a hrm nor pm, just a speedo though.

If you go all out from the first interval and had a PM I suspect you would see that your 1st is the strongest. After the first couple, the anerobic system gets fatigued.

harringtonp

Laura Curved Wire wrote: »

As a guidline this is what should be followed assuming you are working off accurate FTP numbers. The testing protocol of a T20 *.95 does not work for everyone, some will be .925 or even .90 of the T20 number, using NP in an hour balls out race or TT would be a good benchmark to use.
rides

I use 95% of a 20 minute field test to get FTP though I couldn't imagine going at the 95% rate for an hour. Somebody else was saying use 90% of 20 minutes.

What do others on here use ?

fat bloke

I do an interval at a particular wattage for the duration of that interval. If I can't maintain the wattage for the duration, then I've aimed too high and I should be aiming at a lower wattage that CAN be maintained.

Otherwise I don't see how you can have any repeat-ability of the interval. If your interval is a spike and then a tail off, I'm not sure how easy it is to see how you're improving week to week.

Whereas if I routinely do, say 5x8 minutes at 260W, then after a while I'll be able to up that to 5x8 minutes at 265W and then 270W, and so on.

Apart from practicing sprints, I don't see the point in the flat out and tail off approach. If you're time-trialling or road racing, or going for a break, you need to measure/mete your power out, you need to pace yourself appropriately.
ANd actually, when I think about it, even in sprint practice it's about attaining and then maintaining max power for 20 seconds or whatever, once you start to die and slow, the sprint is over for you anyway.

That's my take on it.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

harringtonp wrote: »

I use 95% of a 20 minute field test to get FTP though I couldn't imagine going at the 95% rate for an hour. Somebody else was saying use 90% of 20 minutes.

What do others on here use ?

If you use 95% of the 20 yet could not hold that 95% figure for an hour then it's not your FTP. I sparingly adopt the 1hr tt or use a hard race as a guide.

You are doing the 5min all out tt prior before the 20min, right?

harringtonp

Laura Curved Wire wrote: »

If you use 95% of the 20 yet could not hold that 95% figure for an hour then it's not your FTP. I sparingly adopt the 1hr tt or use a hard race as a guide.

You are doing the 5min all out tt prior before the 20min, right?

Yes last time did the test (April) warmed up, did the 5 min field test, cycled along for a good while to recover (and get to a suitable stretch of road) and did the 20 min field test.