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Technology (too far)

2456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Russman wrote: »
    Fair comment, but what about having a different mindset and wanting the ball to fly "to that spot on the green" or "just short of the pin" ?

    Having more information can only help in this regard too though.
    If I know the flag is 40 yards away I can take a little off my 40 yard shot to leave it short of the pin.

    If I'm not sure if its 40 or 30 I might leave it at 25 yards and now face a tough putt.

    If Im hitting a hip and run etc then its less useful, but if Im trying to chip and run it from 40 yards I'd rather know its 40 than not know. Cant really see the downside to more information tbh, assuming you are not slow and in my experience humming and hawing over how far it is takes up just as much time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 463 ✭✭mister gullible


    Laser handy for lay up shots (fairway bunker, dogleg, water hazard). Also good for mid range pitches, I dial in a different swing length for e.g. 80yds against 60yds, it's sometimes difficult to tell especially if you are already a bad judge of distance. A links hole with a huge green looks very different to a tight parkland hole -easy to misjudge by 10 or 15 yds and miss a par save or birdie opp.
    The watch is good for giving distance to middle and at times more importantly back of green. Most amateurs fall short of pin, yardage to back gives more confidence to go at the pin.
    Like putting, if you use your common sense and prepare early and be quick about your business you won't hold anybody up. I would consider myself a traditionalist in many ways regarding ettiquette, dress etc but I think the measuring device is useful and acceptable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Dealerz


    http://pblackmar.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/is-tiger-a-victim/

    Interesting piece on impact of technology and swing analysis on tiger woods

    Mods: not sure it deserves it's own thread so I posted here- feel free to change.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dealerz wrote: »
    http://pblackmar.wordpress.com/2014/08/17/is-tiger-a-victim/

    Interesting piece on impact of technology and swing analysis on tiger woods

    Mods: not sure it deserves it's own thread so I posted here- feel free to change.

    I think its the perfect thread, tech gone too far :)

    Great article and something I've struggled with throughout a few lessons, the Pro tells me to do something but until I hit a few of them perfectly and start to feel what that position feels like when its correct I might aswell be swinging with someone elses arms. I can hit great shots but dont feel like I can repeat them.
    At the moment I am hitting it well and also have a feel for what I should be trying to do (couple of thousand balls on the range later mind you!)
    Anytime I lose this feeling (even though it might be a different feeling each time) I think its impossible to play without one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Interesting people's views on it.

    But - part of my point, is that it simply shouldn't be allowed. A phone too.

    There is little or no sport were a technological aid is used. In fairness - I'm lucky that I can judge most distances and have good eyes.

    From playing golf - I am surprised how many players can't actually see where their ball has landed (eyesight wise). They actually need glasses. But, don't wear them. I can see it as a major benefit to them.

    I always considered judgement of the shot as part of the game. This was not others view, I am now discovering.

    I can see some dude laser a putt at some stage - watch.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Dealerz


    GreeBo wrote: »

    Great article and something I've struggled with throughout a few lessons, the Pro tells me to do something but until I hit a few of them perfectly and start to feel what that position feels like when its correct I might aswell be swinging with someone elses arms. I can hit great shots but dont feel like I can repeat them.

    Thats exactly why I hate lessons....my physical swing fingerprint is sh*t!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,956 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    But you can't compare golf to any other sport, in this respect at least. How many other sports require such precise distance measurements? How many professionals in other sports have an aide that accompanies them throughout the round who has, in great detail, mapped out the course and all its hazards?

    I'd love to have a caddy that could give me the information my GPS gives me! Technology in golf, particularly DMD's, is just bridging the gap between pro's and the rest of us.

    I'm all for technology, as long as it doesn't slow anyone down or impede on others enjoyment of the game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Dealerz



    From playing golf - I am surprised how many players can't actually see where their ball has landed (eyesight wise). They actually need glasses. But, don't wear them. I can see it as a major benefit to them.

    I always considered judgement of the shot as part of the game. This was not others view I am now discovering.

    I can see some dude laser a putt at some stage - watch.

    Yeah, i hate when lads ask me to keep an eye on their ball- I'm blind!!!! I have glasses for driving (my car) but when I tried to hit a golf shot with them I hit the ground two foot behind the ball and put them back in their case- I'm now happy to be blind on the golf course and rely on people like you who are not blind. Thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    SuprSi wrote: »
    But you can't compare golf to any other sport, in this respect at least. How many other sports require such precise distance measurements? How many professionals in other sports have an aide that accompanies them throughout the round who has, in great detail, mapped out the course and all its hazards?

    I'd love to have a caddy that could give me the information my GPS gives me! Technology in golf, particularly DMD's, is just bridging the gap between pro's and the rest of us.

    I'm all for technology, as long as it doesn't slow anyone down or impede on others enjoyment of the game.

    All field sports require incredible distance perception. And they do it instinctively. Most of us are +/- 10 yards on irons.

    We are not pros. I think that is what sums up the problems in the amateur game.

    Lads are acting like pros.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 589 ✭✭✭Dealerz



    Lads are acting like pros.

    Exactly!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Dealerz wrote: »
    Yeah, i hate when lads ask me to keep an eye on their ball- I'm blind!!!! I have glasses for driving (my car) but when I tried to hit a golf shot with them I hit the ground two foot behind the ball and put them back in their case- I'm now happy to be blind on the golf course and rely on people like you who are not blind. Thanks

    A friend of mine said that to me on a course - a bit of an eye opener (sorry for pun) - but he said to me , you don't understand what it is like not to be able to see properly.

    He was right - lads with good sight don't get that - I do now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,664 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    Dealerz wrote: »
    Yeah, i hate when lads ask me to keep an eye on their ball- I'm blind!!!! I have glasses for driving (my car) but when I tried to hit a golf shot with them I hit the ground two foot behind the ball and put them back in their case- I'm now happy to be blind on the golf course and rely on people like you who are not blind. Thanks

    My dad has glasses for golf and glasses for everything else :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,505 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    347502.jpg
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    41wM78uflPL._SX342_.jpg
    fortis-layered-snooker-cue-tip-[2]-3366-p.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,664 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    SuprSi wrote: »
    But you can't compare golf to any other sport, in this respect at least. How many other sports require such precise distance measurements? How many professionals in other sports have an aide that accompanies them throughout the round who has, in great detail, mapped out the course and all its hazards?

    I'd love to have a caddy that could give me the information my GPS gives me! Technology in golf, particularly DMD's, is just bridging the gap between pro's and the rest of us.

    I'm all for technology, as long as it doesn't slow anyone down or impede on others enjoyment of the game.

    We'll have distance measuring devices down at the local astroturf before too long.

    " Sorry lads, need to check and see if this is a 20 yard pass or a 30 yard pass and i'm not sure how hard to swing my foot.... "


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    GreeBo wrote: »
    347502.jpg

    lol.

    See that is my point - Cluxton stands up , into a players hand in the field.

    That to me is sport. As for hurling. :eek:

    Are we saying as golfers - we are useless , we are giving up all our natural abilities. We can't get a ball from a to b.

    Yet all the psychology of golf , is throw a ball - amazing how the body can judge a distance.

    We are sort of dumbing down golf.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    Rikand wrote: »
    We'll have distance measuring devices down at the local astroturf before too long.

    " Sorry lads, need to check and see if this is a 20 yard pass or a 30 yard pass and i'm not sure how hard to swing my foot.... "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,956 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    All field sports require incredible distance perception. And they do it instinctively. Most of us are +/- 10 yards on irons.

    We are not pros. I think that is what sums up the problems in the amateur game.

    Lads are acting like pros.

    Not to the same level. No football player needs to know that it'll take x yards to clear that bunker, or that there are x yards beyond the pin before I get into trouble. And of course they do it instinctively - they don't have the sort of time that golfers have before each shot. Also, we're talking much greater distances here than on a football pitch.

    I don't see how using a DMD is equivalent to someone acting like a pro. If done conscientiously it takes less time than someone walking to the nearest yardage point. It's also more accurate. A permanent caddy can't fit in your pocket, doesn't accept electricity as payment and is beyond the vast majority of us, so a GPS or rangefinder is the closest thing most amateurs can get to having something that is so fundamental and important to professionals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    SuprSi wrote: »
    Not to the same level. No football player needs to know that it'll take x yards to clear that bunker, or that there are x yards beyond the pin before I get into trouble. And of course they do it instinctively - they don't have the sort of time that golfers have before each shot. Also, we're talking much greater distances here than on a football pitch.

    I don't see how using a DMD is equivalent to someone acting like a pro. If done conscientiously it takes less time than someone walking to the nearest yardage point. It's also more accurate. A permanent caddy can't fit in your pocket, doesn't accept electricity as payment and is beyond the vast majority of us, so a GPS or rangefinder is the closest thing most amateurs can get to having something that is so fundamental and important to professionals.

    It is still the principle of an electronic aid I have an issue with. Not seen in other sports.

    This is a very recent development.

    I'm not convinced amateurs have improved their scores as a result.

    I think most lads with them are fooling themselves.

    Some lads are spending 300 euro + - honestly think 7 or 8 lessons would be better.

    If a lads is say a low single figure golfer - it is more palatable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭newport2


    Rikand wrote: »
    We'll have distance measuring devices down at the local astroturf before too long.

    " Sorry lads, need to check and see if this is a 20 yard pass or a 30 yard pass and i'm not sure how hard to swing my foot.... "

    You'd have a different boot for each length kick, swing shouldn't change


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭newport2


    It is still the principle of an electronic aid I have an issue with. Not seen in other sports.

    This is a very recent development.

    I'm not convinced amateurs have improved their scores as a result.

    I think most lads with them are fooling themselves.

    Some lads are spending 300 euro + - honestly think 7 or 8 lessons would be better.

    If a lads is say a low single figure golfer - it is more palatable.

    If you don't think people are benefiting from it, why do you have an issue with it?

    I remember driver heads went over 400cc for the first time. It was going to ruin the game apparently


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    newport2 wrote: »
    If you don't think people are benefiting from it, why do you have an issue with it?

    I remember driver heads went over 400cc for the first time. It was going to ruin the game apparently

    most.

    I think the fact you are using a computer in a game to help you - is a major departure.

    Still trying to think of another sport ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    ON a funny side note.

    A society I'm in - the captain wants to ban them :D

    Told me it is an unfair advantage over another player. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,956 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    It is still the principle of an electronic aid I have an issue with. Not seen in other sports.

    This is a very recent development.

    I'm not convinced amateurs have improved their scores as a result.

    I think most lads with them are fooling themselves.

    Some lads are spending 300 euro + - honestly think 7 or 8 lessons would be better.

    If a lads is say a low single figure golfer - it is more palatable.

    I agree about the lessons, there's no single item of kit you could buy that would have the same effect. However no amount of lessons are going to tell you that you have x yards beyond the middle of the green before you reach a bunker!

    I also don't see the issue with it being electronic. All powered golf trolleys are electronic. Would you have an issue if there was another way of emulating a caddy without battery power, but still getting the same useful data?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭newport2


    most.

    I think the fact you are using a computer in a game to help you - is a major departure.

    Still trying to think of another sport ?

    Most sport you are gauging the distance in instinctively how hard you propel/strike something.

    In golf, you are changing the equipment as per distance, ideally swinging the same for short distances as for long distances. I think that changes things a little bit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,956 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    ON a funny side note.

    A society I'm in - the captain wants to ban them :D

    Told me it is an unfair advantage over another player. :)

    Haha, he mustn't have one himself!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    SuprSi wrote: »
    I agree about the lessons, there's no single item of kit you could buy that would have the same effect. However no amount of lessons are going to tell you that you have x yards beyond the middle of the green before you reach a bunker!

    I also don't see the issue with it being electronic. All powered golf trolleys are electronic. Would you have an issue if there was another way of emulating a caddy without battery power, but still getting the same useful data?

    Good logic.

    But it is the computational ability of it I have an issue with.

    I don't like to see amateurs with caddies - we are amateurs playing together. We are not pros.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,133 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    SuprSi wrote: »
    Haha, he mustn't have one himself!

    He hasn't - they are all new ish to golf.

    He was just shocked that it was allowed - he is one of the few half golfers in it.

    It was interesting to hear - a guy outside of us golf nuts.

    We are in a bubble - we are mental.

    He just viewed it totally as cheating.

    I'd imagine this is an old battle. I'd wonder why the R&A caved - are they allowed in major amateur events now ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,138 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    ON a funny side note.

    A society I'm in - the captain wants to ban them :D

    Told me it is an unfair advantage over another player. :)

    He wouldn't need to ban them... He can just not allow them ;)

    (Unless that rule was changed in the last update? DMD's require a local rule to be allowed).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,000 ✭✭✭Russman


    SuprSi wrote: »
    I agree about the lessons, there's no single item of kit you could buy that would have the same effect. However no amount of lessons are going to tell you that you have x yards beyond the middle of the green before you reach a bunker!

    I also don't see the issue with it being electronic. All powered golf trolleys are electronic. Would you have an issue if there was another way of emulating a caddy without battery power, but still getting the same useful data?

    Isn't that where the concept of "judgement" would come into it though ?
    Obviously you could have a blind hole etc, but as Nicklaus said "no one ever said golf was meant to be fair".

    I think it would be interesting to see how the pros would score if they had a powercaddy and no yardage book - I'd bet there wouldn't be much, if any difference.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus



    Still trying to think of another sport ?

    How about rifle shooting, they have telescopic view finders similar to range finders to assist in aiming and judging distance?

    Golf is a still ball game unlike so many other field sports so don't think you can compare the electronic rather than technological developments and their impact on the game/sport. Other still ball games such as snooker are on uniform length tables in controlled environments protected from the elements but golf and golf courses are anything but uniform.

    I'm not against measurement devices since distance and it's measurement has always been a facet of the game as otherwise you'd just have holes 1-18 with no lengths or pars given on the card. Would be an interesting way to play the game, tee it up and just try to hit the least amount of strokes based on what you see in front of you irrespective of the perceived par or standard expectation.

    Distant measuring devices are just aids in judging that distance similar to the yardages on the card or distance markers on the fairway. You could even indicate that the 65m line in hurling aids the hurler in judging whether he can score the point given the conditions on the day, could be different if the ball was randomly throw down somewhere between 50 and 80m. However that said I'd expect it would be easier to judge that distance on the unobstructed and flat playing surface that is generally of a standard overall length.


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