Green diesel to go?

Muckit

Any truth to the rumour that green diesel will be no more?

It will be all commercial diesel and there will be a rebate system set up for farmers/contractors etc to claim back the price difference.

Supposedly big problems with diesel laundering and this will help stamp it out apparently.

lakill Farm

Muckit wrote: »

Any truth to the rumour that green diesel will be no more?

It will be all commercial diesel and there will be a rebate system set up for farmers/contractors etc to claim back the price difference.

Supposedly big problems with diesel laundering and this will help stamp it out apparently.

and ask the laundering experts to retrain into drug cultivation

I think some drugs should be legalised - Massive tax and employment benefit
I also think prostitution should be legalised - stops pimps and increases safety

passive impact on tax take and a double saving on Gardaí spending

the fuel washing is as bad as growing drugs.

epfff

lakill Farm wrote: »

and ask the laundering experts to retrain into drug cultivation

I think some drugs should be legalised - Massive tax and employment benefit
I also think prostitution should be legalised - stops pimps and increases safety

passive impact on tax take and a double saving on Gardaí spending

the fuel washing is as bad as growing drugs.

+1
But you will always have cash work

mickdw

There are issues with the rebate system proposed. Very hard to police commercial v non commercial useage.
Farmers for example will need to be allowed into the rebate scheme. How do you stop them claiming rebate on diesel used in the car.
Also large contractors could over purchase fuel and get the rebate on all the fuel then sell excess on black market.

A cow called Daisy

Muckit wrote: »

Any truth to the rumour that green diesel will be no more?

It will be all commercial diesel and there will be a rebate system set up for farmers/contractors etc to claim back the price difference.

Supposedly big problems with diesel laundering and this will help stamp it out apparently.

We hear this every year coming up to budget time as a bid to stop fuel laundering. Didn't they spend a lot of money recently changing/going to change the dye to leave it harder for the dye to be removed. But I'd say those involved have already that problem solved

whupdedo

It's time they did something about it, if they averaged out the price of the diesel and have everyone paying the same, and give everyone using it commercially a tax break, it would be cheaper for car drivers at the pumps,and the people using it commercially ie farmers and hauliers, builders etc could claim back the excess once a year

tanko

Would it stop diesel laundering though? Surely the boys would just get red diesel in the north, wash it and sell it as white diesel.

limerick farmer

Its all very well doing it here but it would have to be done in the north also and there is no signs of that happening yet any way.

Farrell

limerick farmer wrote: »

Its all very well doing it here but it would have to be done in the north also and there is no signs of that happening yet any way.

It's been mentioned up there a long time too!
Problem is there is too much tax on fuel.
Rebate sounds easy for the civil servants, but will be messy & unfair for most involved

lakill Farm

there is a fuel rebate in operate the last few months by revenue for a select few sectors.

I think Germany or one of those countries have all the one fuel and you look for the difference once per year. Saw it in the journal maybe 2 years ago (IFJ)

This will be another self accessed tax. ie like household tax and Income tax. you decide what you own revenue and well god help you if you make a mistake or try it on when it comes to an audit.

For any of ye with no experience of dealing with a stubborn revenue auditor.

if you tell them you have 50 cows

they will tell you your 50 cows all had twins and you have to prove they had 1. all the mystery 50 calves you didn't register were sold for cash.
they will tell you you probably really have 50 and another 5 hidden as your using to much meal and fertiliser
your also probably using 100 litres of milk for the house out of the tank everyday
and well them mushrooms you have had free for the last 3 weeks. - you need to pay tax on them
and the firewood
and this and that

so yes in time it will come in probably but god help you if you cross them.

rangler1

lakill Farm wrote: »

there is a fuel rebate in operate the last few months by revenue for a select few sectors.

I think Germany or one of those countries have all the one fuel and you look for the difference once per year. Saw it in the journal maybe 2 years ago (IFJ)

This will be another self accessed tax. ie like household tax and Income tax. you decide what you own revenue and well god help you if you make a mistake or try it on when it comes to an audit.

For any of ye with no experience of dealing with a stubborn revenue auditor.

if you tell them you have 50 cows

they will tell you your 50 cows all had twins and you have to prove they had 1. all the mystery 50 calves you didn't register were sold for cash.
they will tell you you probably really have 50 and another 5 hidden as your using to much meal and fertiliser
your also probably using 100 litres of milk for the house out of the tank everyday
and well them mushrooms you have had free for the last 3 weeks. - you need to pay tax on them
and the firewood
and this and that

so yes in time it will come in probably but god help you if you cross them.

It's unlikely to change, too hard to police.......don't think there's any plans for this year

lakill Farm

rangler1 wrote: »

It's unlikely to change, too hard to police.......don't think there's any plans for this year

probably not but you can see it happening all the same. Revenue are becoming more streamlined in the last 36 months. They are collecting a lot extra taxes and have extra man power with the new super computer. That's considering they lost lots of staff back a few years ago

Farmer Pudsey

It would make a lot of sense. Issue with lads buying selling on the black market would be limited i imagine as if caught you would lose the right for a rebate. Yes lads may register some used in the car and draw rebate, however this coreates extra income that needs either has to be reinvested in business or tax has to be paid on same.

RightTurnClyde

What I could see happening is green diesel remains, you pay the full price, but then apply for the rebate. That way you won't have farmers selling it or using it in cars ( unless they wash it). That system would fix all their problems, but be a pith for farmers

_Brian

I don't beleive there will be a rebate system..

I read on-line that both the Irish and UK government are working with one of the chemical companies to develop a better dye, I think its in trials now. Plan it it will be impossible to remove from the fuel... kinda like the last one..

Here's a link to the story..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-dye-put-in-fuel-to-foil-laundering-gangs-30005573.html

I wouldn't be surprised if its not in wide circulation, up here near the border anyway.. I thought the last few drums I got were much more luminous coloured compared to previously.

Jonblack

filling from a drum a few weeks ago and thought the green was brighter. I think white and green will move to single price with rebate on green, but with nct and doe moving towards yearly, checks on mileage covered could be easy enough.

_Brian

Jonblack wrote: »

filling from a drum a few weeks ago and thought the green was brighter. I think white and green will move to single price with rebate on green, but with nct and doe moving towards yearly, checks on mileage covered could be easy enough.

If they stick with the dye why would there be a rebate system also.. I'd say its going to be one or the other and the article would suggest they are going to continue to dye.

RightTurnClyde

_Brian wrote: »

If they stick with the dye why would there be a rebate system also.. I'd say its going to be one or the other and the article would suggest they are going to continue to dye.

...to stop farmers selling it or using it in road vehicles.

blue5000

lakill Farm wrote: »

there is a fuel rebate in operate the last few months by revenue for a select few sectors.

I think Germany or one of those countries have all the one fuel and you look for the difference once per year. Saw it in the journal maybe 2 years ago (IFJ)

This will be another self accessed tax. ie like household tax and Income tax. you decide what you own revenue and well god help you if you make a mistake or try it on when it comes to an audit.

For any of ye with no experience of dealing with a stubborn revenue auditor.

if you tell them you have 50 cows

they will tell you your 50 cows all had twins and you have to prove they had 1. all the mystery 50 calves you didn't register were sold for cash.
they will tell you you probably really have 50 and another 5 hidden as your using to much meal and fertiliser
your also probably using 100 litres of milk for the house out of the tank everyday
and well them mushrooms you have had free for the last 3 weeks. - you need to pay tax on them
and the firewood
and this and that

so yes in time it will come in probably but god help you if you cross them.

It's Denmark.

whupdedo

Why not just amalgamate the 2 diesels into 1 and let people pay the 1 price for diesel, let everyone in business get vat registered and let them claim the vat back 3 times a year like a lot of businesses

Farmer Pudsey

whupdedo wrote: »

Why not just amalgamate the 2 diesels into 1 and let people pay the 1 price for diesel, let everyone in business get vat registered and let them claim the vat back 3 times a year like a lot of businesses

Do not even go there

whupdedo

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Do not even go there

Why not?

blue5000

The majority of farmers are not vat registered because we get a vat rebate on sales.

trixi2011

worked in nz for a few years all dsl over there was the same over there , diesel cars had to buy diesel km a special tax sort off. Worked really well

have2flushtwice

whupdedo wrote: »

Why not just amalgamate the 2 diesels into 1 and let people pay the 1 price for diesel, let everyone in business get vat registered and let them claim the vat back 3 times a year like a lot of businesses

Its a good idea. However. When u fill a boat (private, not for business) with diesel for d summer, i wont get a rebate for it. 2500l tank, i want to keep green!

gavinhenson

limerick farmer wrote: »

Its all very well doing it here but it would have to be done in the north also and there is no signs of that happening yet any way.

No, it wouldn't.

Zr105

Jonblack wrote: »

filling from a drum a few weeks ago and thought the green was brighter. I think white and green will move to single price with rebate on green, but with nct and doe moving towards yearly, checks on mileage covered could be easy enough.

Not really, way to many variables in mpg.

They could base there figure off the school run mums jeep which todles around town getting reasonable enough mpg and set that as the standard for that particular make/model(this is most likely the sort of bs figure that manufacturers are quoting now a days anyways)

then take a heavily fragmented farmer who's jeep of the same make and model but it spends 70% of its time lugging the stock box around moving animals back and forth doing crap mpg...
He's the one that should be getting the rebate but because it's based of a high mpg figure he only ends up getting half of what he should do...

Not exactly fair...


And also the green has definitly gotten a lot darker over the last 10 years, i remember it used to be a case you had to look at it in sun light before you could see the green, now if you look into the drum you can tell... And it isn't exactly doing us any favours when it comes to our injection and common rail systems...

gctest50

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Its a good idea. However. When u fill a boat (private, not for business) with diesel for d summer, i wont get a rebate for it. 2500l tank, i want to keep green!

be full price fuel in boats one of the days

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28249788

leeroybrown

Unless there's been a very very recent change in policy then there won't be a rebate in the near future. Ireland and the UK are both switching to a more advanced fuel marker instead of the current green and red diesel. That should in theory make fuel laundering a much more difficult prospect.

whupdedo

leeroybrown wrote: »

Unless there's been a very very recent change in policy then there won't be a rebate in the near future. Ireland and the UK are both switching to a more advanced fuel marker instead of the current green and red diesel. That should in theory make fuel laundering a much more difficult prospect.

Ya for about a month I'd say

gctest50

usual cat n mouse game


http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_089d/0901b8038089dbab.pdf


.

have2flushtwice

whupdedo wrote: »

Why not just amalgamate the 2 diesels into 1 and let people pay the 1 price for diesel, let everyone in business get vat registered and let them claim the vat back 3 times a year like a lot of businesses

Its a good idea. However. When u fill a boat (private, not for business) with diesel for d summer, i wont get a rebate for it. 2500l tank, i want to keep green!

have2flushtwice

whupdedo wrote: »

Why not just amalgamate the 2 diesels into 1 and let people pay the 1 price for diesel, let everyone in business get vat registered and let them claim the vat back 3 times a year like a lot of businesses

Its a good idea. However. When u fill a boat (private, not for business) with diesel for d summer, i wont get a rebate for it. 2500l tank, i want to keep green!

The Letheram

have2flushtwice wrote: »

Its a good idea. However. When u fill a boat (private, not for business) with diesel for d summer, i wont get a rebate for it. 2500l tank, i want to keep green!

Echo?;-):-P

C0N0R

trixi2011 wrote: »

worked in nz for a few years all dsl over there was the same over there , diesel cars had to buy diesel km a special tax sort off. Worked really well

I do know of a few people who had a switch hidden which stopped the km's going up on the dash!!