Rent late, tenants not communicating.

SteM

A friend of mine's circumstances changed about 15 months ago so he decided to rent out his house and move in with his girlfriend. My understanding is that he would have preferred to sell but is in negative equity so it is a non-runner. He needs the monthly rent to pay the mortgage - without the rent it doesn’t get paid.

The house is lovely and in a great place so he got it rented very quickly to a bloke and his girlfriend 14 months ago. He didn't have an issue with them at all at the end of the 12 months, they all decided that everything was going well so they would sign another 12 month fixed term contract 2 months ago. Rent in his area is usually €1100pm but he was so happy that the tenants were hassle-free so he left the rent at €900pm, the tenants were delighted to hear that the rent wasn't going to be raised when they re-signed. I advised him at the time that he should the up the rent to build up some sort of contingency but he’s a laid back about this sort of thing and didn't bother.

The rent was due to be paid on 1st August but wasn't there as usual. He rang the tenants on the 5th and they expressed their surprise and said they would look into it. They have spoken a few times on the phone and by text since and they reckon that the money should be paid into his account now but it has not. He spoke to his bank and they have confirmed there are no problems on their side. He tried calling the tenant over the last 2 days but they are not picking up now and he's getting worried. I've suggested writing them a letter outlining the issues and giving them x amount of days to ensure that the rent is paid into his account but I'm not sure if I've given him the correct advice. Even if he does this I'm not sure what it could accomplish to be honest. If they're having financial issues or have just decided to take the pi** then I don't think getting a letter will change anything.

Does anyone have any advice at all?

Eldarion

It's been two weeks. That's plenty of leeway for the goodwill the tenants have built up over the last 14 months. It's time your friend issued them with an official notice of rent arrears. Tell him to get this in now as a first step, next steps involve proceeding with eviction but hopefully it doesn't come to that.

SteM

Thanks for the reply. I think he's a bit torn. Obviously there have been no issues up until now and I think he'd let this drag and just keep trying to phone the tenant for a few weeks only for the fact that he's reliant on the money for the mortgage. I was wondering if he was sending a letter out too soon but from looking here

http://www.prtb.ie/dispute-resolution/disputes/information-on-terminating-a-tenancy-for-rent-arrears

it looks like the first step 'Breach of Notice' letter should have gone out within the first week or so.

foggy_lad

Because there is a fixed term lease in place AFAIK the landlord can move straight to eviction notice as the tenant is in breach of their obligations.

spaceHopper

Door step them and find out what is going on.

foggy_lad

spaceHopper wrote: »

Door step them and find out what is going on.

Rather than calling to the door unannounced(which can be seen as not allowing them peaceful enjoyment of the property) you can put a not through the door saying that you will visit in 3-4 days to check the property and ask them to contact you to arrange a different time if this is not convenient.

SteM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because there is a fixed term lease in place AFAIK the landlord can move straight to eviction notice as the tenant is in breach of their obligations.

Thanks, eviction is something that he's trying to avoid at all costs. It hink the whole thing has made him realise that he needs a contingency plan for this kind of thing in the future. Problem is that he's a technophobe so the last place he'll look for info is on the web

SteM

spaceHopper wrote: »

Door step them and find out what is going on.

Yeah, we spoke about that but he made a fair point that he wouldn't want a landlord doorstepping him if he was in the same position and genuinely unable to pay. He's a bit of a soft touch to be honest.

foggy_lad

SteM wrote: »

Thanks, eviction is something that he's trying to avoid at all costs. It hink the whole thing has made him realise that he needs a contingency plan for this kind of thing in the future. Problem is that he's a technophobe so the last place he'll look for info is on the web

The bank repossessing his house because he cant pay the mortgage should concern him a lot more!

There is NO contingency plan. If these tenants want to stay put until your friend goes through the PRTB then the courts to get an eviction order they will just pack up and leave a few days before the bailiffs/Sheriff arrive and it will cost your friend thousands in lost rent and god only knows what damage could be done.

The best thing is to give them their notice to show that the landlord is not a soft touch.

TheBandicoot

No offence to him, but he is running a business here and is relying on it to pay his mortgage and keep a roof over his head. He needs to act with a bit of professionalism.

Having said that, if I were him I would issue the official notice of arrears, as he is legally permitted to do- it helps set the tone as foggy said, and gives him options. Personally I am totally happy to accept that it was an honest mistake, especially given the BoI glitches at the start of the month, but your friend needs to act to protect himself here in case there is not an innocent explanation(though I'm sure it probably is).

Mrs W

Send them a warning letter straight away, if they think they can get away with paying a week or two late etc then they will do it again.

According to the PRTB website the first warning can be verbal BUT if it came to a tribunal the onus is on the landlord to prove it happened so you're better to do it in writing.

It must state the amount of arrears, give a reasonable time to pay and say that the tenancy can be terminated if not.

If it's not paid then issue 14 day notice and then notice to quit, you can get those templates on the PRTB website for the exact wording needed

Mrs OBumble

SteM wrote: »

Yeah, we spoke about that but he made a fair point that he wouldn't want a landlord doorstepping him if he was in the same position and genuinely unable to pay. He's a bit of a soft touch to be honest.

To be blunt, he needs to grow a pair or he will find his house repossessed. Land-lording isn't a business for soft touches.

The line for him to use is that shelter is a basic human requirement which needs to be a priority in the tenants' budget. If they really do have a genuine reason, then there are welfare organisations which will help them pay the rent if there is a real threat of eviction. Unless your friend is also a welfare organisation, then his role in this interaction is to be the evil landlord, not the soft touch.

That said, he needs to keep lines of communication open: if the bottom line is that they need to move to somewhere else that they can afford, then his objective is to get them out of the property ASAP, so he can get a tenant who can afford it. Mutually agreeing to a far-shorter-than-legally-required notice period, and for rent liability to stop the day they leave (so they're not liable for double anywhere, but do tell him where they're going) might be the most cut-his-losses thing to do.

SteM

TheBandicoot wrote: »

No offence to him, but he is running a business here and is relying on it to pay his mortgage and keep a roof over his head. He needs to act with a bit of professionalism.

Having said that, if I were him I would issue the official notice of arrears, as he is legally permitted to do- it helps set the tone as foggy said, and gives him options. Personally I am totally happy to accept that it was an honest mistake, especially given the BoI glitches at the start of the month, but your friend needs to act to protect himself here in case there is not an innocent explanation(though I'm sure it probably is).

See, that's part of his problem imo. He doesn’t see this as running a business. He works full time and sees that as his priority, I'm sure he'd give up the house if he could as he's moved on with his life, this is just hassle he does not want. He said to me after 12 months that he was was happy to keep the rent low to keep good tenants that he doesn’t have hassle with. I said to him at the time that keeping the rent low doesn't mean anything, only that he's getting less than he should every month.

Thanks to all of the replies so far btw. All advice is being passed on to him.

SteM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

To be blunt, he needs to grow a pair or he will find his house repossessed.

I think that is something that is finally hitting home to him

Mrs OBumble

To focus his mind on the business side, he should consider what would happen if the bank repossesses, and sells the house for less than the amount he owes them.

He will owe the bank the difference - and this is likely to have a negative impact on the ways in which he's moved on in his life, including making it very difficult to buy a house in future.

It's harsh, but true. (I may get into trouble for putting it so bluntly, but I honestly believe that it's far more helpful to spell things out clearly here: warm fuzzy feel-good words may sound nicer but don't focus on the actual consequences.)

odds_on

foggy_lad wrote: »

Because there is a fixed term lease in place AFAIK the landlord can move straight to eviction notice as the tenant is in breach of their obligations.

If the second year's fixed term agreement has been signed, the issue a 14 days arrears of rent notice. If not paid, in full within the 14 days then serve a notice of termination with 28 days notice period.

If the second year's fixed term agreement was not signed then it would be best to send a simple letter stating that the rent is in arrears and that if not received promptly, a 14 day notice of rent arrears will be served.

foggy_lad

He should also use the return of the deposit as a carrot to urge the tenants to leave now rather than after any notice period.

And when these wasters are out he should contact the local council about going into the RAS scheme if he has a house to rent. The council will lease the house for a number of years(4-10) and pay the rent(lower than market rates) to him directly. He is still the landlord and responsible for all maintenance and fixing breakages etc but the council vet all tenants and he will also have a veto on tenants. With this scheme there is little risk of not being paid the rent.

odds_on

Mrs W wrote: »

Send them a warning letter straight away, if they think they can get away with paying a week or two late etc then they will do it again.

If it's not paid then issue 14 day notice and then notice to quit, you can get those templates on the PRTB website for the exact wording needed

Mrs W, you seem to be new here.

In Ireland, there is no "Notice to Quit". That is England and Wales terminology.

In Ireland it is a Notice of Termination.

Mrs OBumble

odds_on wrote: »

Mrs W, you seem to be new here.

In Ireland, there is no "Notice to Quit". That is England and Wales terminology.

In Ireland it is a Notice of Termination.

Not 100% correct - ref: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/notice_to_quit_and_eviction.html


But this does highlight why people should be getting proper legal / professional advice, only relying on randoms from the interwebz for information.

Mrs W

odds_on wrote: »

Mrs W, you seem to be new here.

In Ireland, there is no "Notice to Quit". That is England and Wales terminology.

In Ireland it is a Notice of Termination.

Not new here at all, can be called either. I think everyone understands what it means

That advice was straight from the PRTB too, I spoke to them yesterday about a similar situation

Eldarion

Am I reading that wrong or does that term seem to only apply to Local Authority and Housing Association tenancies?

Genuine question!

Mrs OBumble

Eldarion wrote: »

Am I reading that wrong or does that term seem to only apply to Local Authority and Housing Association tenancies?

Genuine question!

Yes, that term only applies to LA an HA. A different one applies to private sector rentals. The same underlying idea applies to both. Landlord posters need proper legal advice, so that they use the right words on the right letters, so that they will stand up in court.

emeldc

foggy_lad wrote: »

He should also use the return of the deposit as a carrot to urge the tenants to leave now rather than after any notice period.

And when these wasters are out he should contact the local council about going into the RAS scheme if he has a house to rent. The council will lease the house for a number of years(4-10) and pay the rent(lower than market rates) to him directly. He is still the landlord and responsible for all maintenance and fixing breakages etc but the council vet all tenants and he will also have a veto on tenants. With this scheme there is little risk of not being paid the rent.

You have finally convinced me that you know nothing about letting if you think the RAS scheme is the way to go. Jesus wept.

foggy_lad

emeldc wrote: »

You have finally convinced me that you know nothing about letting if you think the RAS scheme is the way to go. Jesus wept.

Well if the tenants hold out for a year at the momemt the landlord will never see rent from that time but if on the RAS scheme the rent is guaranteed even if tenants move out and the place is between tenants or if the tenants have to be evicted for any reason the council will continue to pay rent while they are in the house!

SteM

emeldc wrote: »

You have finally convinced me that you know nothing about letting if you think the RAS scheme is the way to go. Jesus wept.

When he initially let the house he had people coming to him asking if he'd take RAS payments but he said no. I think he's heard too many horror stories tbh.

xxtippchickxx

in our place 11months now and our contract with the letting agency and landlord is that if our rent is 14days date we are isued another 14days to leave the property and our deposit will be used against the rent

The_Morrigan

xxtippchickxx wrote: »

in our place 11months now and our contract with the letting agency and landlord is that if our rent is 14days date we are isued another 14days to leave the property and our deposit will be used against the rent

If your rent is 14 days late, they issue you with a notice to vacate within 14 days?

xxtippchickxx

The_Morrigan wrote: »

If your rent is 14 days late, they issue you with a notice to vacate within 14 days?

yes that way than our deposit is used as that months rent

The_Morrigan

xxtippchickxx wrote: »

yes that way than our deposit is used as that months rent

That's an illegal eviction - they can't do that, regardless of what is written in any lease.

foggy_lad

xxtippchickxx wrote: »

yes that way than our deposit is used as that months rent

That holds no water legally and landlord can be sued for thousands of euro for an illegal eviction if they forced you out or broke in and changed the locks. You can not sign away your rights by signing any lease or other agreement and such an agreement would not be enforceable.

xxtippchickxx

foggy_lad wrote: »

That holds no water legally and landlord can be sued for thousands of euro for an illegal eviction if they forced you out or broke in and changed the locks. You can not sign away your rights by signing any lease or other agreement and such an agreement would not be enforceable.

well i pay my rent on time so i dont have to worry about it

Eldarion

xxtippchickxx wrote: »

well i pay my rent on time so i dont have to worry about it

Good to hear haha but you should still take the time to know your rights in this regard.

foggy_lad

xxtippchickxx wrote: »

well i pay my rent on time so i dont have to worry about it

If for any reason you can't then you don't have to worry about being evicted illegally or having a landlord calling to the door at ll hours or letting themselves in whenever they want as you are protected by the law.

xxtippchickxx

foggy_lad wrote: »

If for any reason you can't then you don't have to worry about being evicted illegally or having a landlord calling to the door at ll hours or letting themselves in whenever they want as you are protected by the law.

if for any reason i couldnt afford to pay id do the decent thing and get onto the acutioneer and explain my situation not fair having decent people with a mortgage to pay for hanging on either ive a newborn baby in the house and end up on the street :O but thanks anyway nice to know theres a law to protect me but id rather hand in my notice than have someone waiting to pay there mortgage

Big Davey

Op tell your friend to get on the PRTB website print out the templates and follow all the steps as per the law.
I had a non paying tenant who just stopped paying it took me a few months to get them out I won my case and it is now going to court.
The advice on "door stepping " the tenants is bad in my opinion as depending on the type of tenant this could be seen as a threat or form of intimidation and could easily result in a beating for your friend depending on how the tenant takes it and who he is also if the Gardai are called I could easily see them siding with the tenant as it's their HOME.
Things are very bad for landlords at the moment if you are unlucky enough to get a delinquent tenant.
Make sure to register all letters sent to the tenant and follow the PRTB instructions to the letter.
In my case I got the Tenants out although my house was a total disgrace and needed a lot of work and I went down the best part of 3 months rent also I was lucky enough to get the governments part as the couple were on rent allowance at the time.
To top it all off I found bank statements where the tenants were spending approx €500-€600 per month on online gambling and not paying their rent this was tax payers money as the couple were on non contributory benefits ! I reported this to the local Social Welfare office who told me they were not interested ! A good use of tax payers money I thought.
Your friends needs to have a good bit of a fight in him if this turns out like one of the MANY scumbag tenants who are abusing the system at present as it's not easy to be paying a mortgage while a piece of filth lives for free in your house and basically laughs out the window at you as the law is on their side mainly.
I console myself with the fact that I am determined to follow this to the bitter end and get my day in court(most people brought to court by the PRTB don't even turn up to the circuit court date ) but I will spend a few quid that will go against my tax bill and get my judgment then get them black listed and get the sherif to call to where they are living :-) but that is probably another year away.
It's not easy being a landlord and it's not for everybody but my experience just made me more determined to succeed and I recently bought my 4th house that I am preparing to get rented out.
Good luck.