Stopping at red lights question

spider_pig

Just a question regarding stopping at red lights for the purpose of the driving test
I was told by an instructor that if I'm 1st,2nd, or 3rd inline at a red light I should stop in the gear I'm in,I then should be in first gear with the handbrake on and ready to go for when they turn green is this correct?

KCAccidental

yeah sounds about right.

come to a full stop in 2nd (or third, but probably better to gear down in the test). Handbrake up and put it in to first ready to go when green.

Don't forget your observation when you take off. extremely important.

SimonClarke

Maybe it's just me, but what if the light has just turned red moments before you arrived at the stop.. Are you really going to sit there with your foot pushed down on the clutch for 60 seconds or more until the light turns and you're ready to move off again?

Would it not be better to switch to neutral and give your foot/leg a break? I don't know if it's the same for other drivers, but the longer my foot stays holding the clutch down, the less control I have over it when it comes time to letting the clutch up when moving off..

Faolchu

I thought it was wait in neutral at a red light

Craftylee

Yeah stop at the light in 2nd or 3rd - ideally working your way down the gears as you approach, so 2nd. Apply the handbrake and go into first gear and leave the clutch down. I know it's a pain leaving the clutch down for 30 secs or 1 min at a red, but it's good practice if you're the first 1-2 cars at a light to stay in gear ready to go.

spider_pig

SimonClarke wrote: »

Maybe it's just me, but what if the light has just turned red moments before you arrived at the stop.. Are you really going to sit there with your foot pushed down on the clutch for 60 seconds or more until the light turns and you're ready to move off again?

Would it not be better to switch to neutral and give your foot/leg a break? I don't know if it's the same for other drivers, but the longer my foot stays holding the clutch down, the less control I have over it when it comes time to letting the clutch up when moving off..

That was the very reason I had asked the question,sitting there with it pressed in all that time kind of made my leg feel dead

monkeysnapper

I would say go down the gears until you come to a halt , hand break up, out of gear , then as soon as the light changes put into 1st and go , from a safety point of view sitting with car in 1st clutching it is somewhat dangerous and pointless . Putting car into 1st and going should be smooth and quick enough.


In everyday situations I've always thought it was very dangerous to clutch it at traffic lights or que,s because you could easily stall it, what if a person was crossing between cars and you stalled it as someone was crossing in front of your car and you crushed them into car in front . Just a good habit for your long driving ahead of you .

seamus

It's a judgement call. If you know the light sequence and know that it's short (e.g. 30 seconds apiece), then sit there with your foot on the clutch. If you know that it's a long sequence (the old Newland's X sequence was about five minutes between changes), then into neutral and handbrake on.

As a rule of thumb, small junctions have short sequences, big junctions have long sequences.

The tester isn't really looking for whether or not you've stopped in first or whatever. He's looking to ensure you can make good progress and not hold up other traffic. If you can put it in neutral with the handbrake on, but still react swiftly when the lights change, then you won't be faulted.

The best of both worlds is neutral + handbrake when you stop, but then change into first and put your hand on the handbrake when you see the other lights go amber. This still requires you to know the lights though, that's why instructors recommend sitting on the clutch as a failsafe.

nc19

Craftylee wrote: »

Yeah stop at the light in 2nd or 3rd - ideally working your way down the gears as you approach, so 2nd. Apply the handbrake and go into first gear and leave the clutch down. I know it's a pain leaving the clutch down for 30 secs or 1 min at a red, but it's good practice if you're the first 1-2 cars at a light to stay in gear ready to go.

Its NOT good practice if you want your clutch to last any length of time!
Also, what if someone rear ends you and the handbrake fails and the car takes off down the road?

Stop at the lights and watch them. You should be able to see the opposite traffics lights going amber which will give you your que to get ready

seamus

nc19 wrote: »

Also, what if someone rear ends you and the handbrake fails and the car takes off down the road?

If you leave the car in neutral it will still take off down the road

If you get rear-ended in first and suddenly release the clutch, the vehicle will either stall or slow down very suddenly.

porsche boy

unless the mentality has changed for the worse, when I was a driving instructor the prociedure was to stop in 3rd, hand brake on and out of gear even if your first in the queue. pay attention to your lights as well as the other lights. When you see the othet lights go orange you apply first gear and place your hand on the hand brake. As soon as the green light shows you look left and right before dropping the handbrake and pulling off.

IMO sitting with the car in gear is not the way to go. If you were rear ended the first thing to happen will be your foot slipping off the clutch pedal and the car will roll into the middle of the junction where you'll be t-boned by other traffic and it will be your fault because you broke the red light.

Out of curiosity if your instructor RSA registered?

frozenfrozen

Should I definitely not be shifting down through the gears when coming up to a red light? My instructor has said to just break and stop in second or third, but that makes me feel as if I'm coasting up to the lights. Wouldn't it be better to change all the way down through the gears that way I'd still be in gear when finally coming to a complete stop and then the clutch would be fully depressed.

This also feels like it gives a good bit less wear on the breaks because a lot of the slowing down is caused by engine breaking..


Feels like I'm developing two styles of driving the one I'll have to do on the test and the one I'll use every day

seamus

Engine braking causes wear on the clutch. Brakes pads and discs are way cheaper than clutches.

Engine braking is an older practice which came from a time when car brakes were less reliable, so engine braking was a legitimately good practice for getting your speed down. It's no longer necessary in modern vehicles and so is considered to be an obsolete practice. The tester won't mark you down for it, but as good driving practice in the long term you should avoid engine braking.

It's considered appropriate practice to drive up to the lights and stop in the same gear, rather than switching down through them. Again, it's a judgement call - if you're first to the lights and they go green just before you stop, then trying to move off in 4th will be more difficult than moving off in 2nd.

For the test, do whatever you find easier. In the long run, you should aim to stop in same driving gear rather than switch down through them. You don't coast up to the lights, you clutch in just before the car starts to shudder, which is 1-2 car lengths away from the line. You'd be surprised just how slowly the vehicle can go in 3rd or 4th without shuddering or cutting out.

nc19

seamus wrote: »

If you leave the car in neutral it will still take off down the road

If you get rear-ended in first and suddenly release the clutch, the vehicle will either stall or slow down very suddenly.

No. If its in N and you get rear ended and the handbrake fails it will move a certain amount but if its in gear it will keep going til it hits something

if the car is in gear and the ignition is on the force of the impact will act like a bump start if the car stalls and the engine will start again and the car will take off.

seamus

nc19 wrote: »

No. If its in N and you get rear ended and the handbrake fails it will move a certain amount but if its in gear it will keep going til it hits something

If it's in neutral and you get rear ended, there is nothing stopping the car from moving except inertia. There will be no resistance from the gearbox, you are hoping the vehicle will come to a rolling stop or bang into something.

If it's in 1st gear, even if it doesn't cut out the vehicle will be slowed by the engine and will eventually cut out and stop dead.

Perhaps you're talking about an automatic. I'm not.

nc19

seamus wrote: »

If it's in neutral and you get rear ended, there is nothing stopping the car from moving except inertia. There will be no resistance from the gearbox, you are hoping the vehicle will come to a rolling stop or bang into something.

If it's in 1st gear, even if it doesn't cut out the vehicle will be slowed by the engine and will eventually cut out and stop dead.

Perhaps you're talking about an automatic. I'm not.

I suggest you try a little experiment before you reply again.
Put your car in gear and slowly release the clutch without touching the accelerator. The car will drive off at maybe 5-10mph if on an even level and wil remain at that speed until someone causes it to speed up or slow down.

I can physically move a car that is in gear so the cars own weight is enough to keep the car moving and is enough to restart the car by way of a bump start if enough force has been applied

frozenfrozen

seamus wrote: »

Engine braking causes wear on the clutch. Brakes pads and discs are way cheaper than clutches.

Engine braking is an older practice which came from a time when car brakes were less reliable, so engine braking was a legitimately good practice for getting your speed down. It's no longer necessary in modern vehicles and so is considered to be an obsolete practice. The tester won't mark you down for it, but as good driving practice in the long term you should avoid engine braking.

It's considered appropriate practice to drive up to the lights and stop in the same gear, rather than switching down through them. Again, it's a judgement call - if you're first to the lights and they go green just before you stop, then trying to move off in 4th will be more difficult than moving off in 2nd.

For the test, do whatever you find easier. In the long run, you should aim to stop in same driving gear rather than switch down through them. You don't coast up to the lights, you clutch in just before the car starts to shudder, which is 1-2 car lengths away from the line. You'd be surprised just how slowly the vehicle can go in 3rd or 4th without shuddering or cutting out.

Thanks. How does it wear out the clutch? Should I not allow the car to engine break when rolling down a slope and just half hold the break to regulate speed instead of letting the engine breaking keep it from rolling?

Is the damage done to the clutch when the engine revs up to allow the downshift when the rpms aren't matched, or is the damage done by the other side of the gears being used because the wheels are driving the engine rather than the other way around? If it's the former then I think I might be ok to keep doing it as I 90% of the time match the revs and would be able to slot into the lower gear even without using the clutch, although it's used slightly to help guide it sometimes

Greyian

nc19 wrote: »

I suggest you try a little experiment before you reply again.
Put your car in gear and slowly release the clutch without touching the accelerator. The car will drive off at maybe 5-10mph if on an even level and wil remain at that speed until someone causes it to speed up or slow down.

I can physically move a car that is in gear so the cars own weight is enough to keep the car moving and is enough to restart the car by way of a bump start if enough force has been applied

If you're in gear, waiting at a set of lights, and someone bumps into you from behind, you won't let the clutch up slowly. You'll either keep your foot down (which will create a near identical situation to be in neutral anyway), or you'll pull your foot up sharply in shock, which will serve to stall the engine and stop the car.

work2013

Quick question. I notice you all mention applying the handbrake when stopped. Is this always necessary or is it only for when you're on a slope?

Greyian

work2013 wrote: »

Quick question. I notice you all mention applying the handbrake when stopped. Is this always necessary or is it only for when you're on a slope?

When I was doing my driving lessons (in 2009, and also got my licence that year), my instructor told me to use the handbrake at all times when stopped for a "long" period of time. A long period of time, he defined as, traffic lights basically (so not if you have to just stop behind someone who's waiting to turn right for example). Then obviously, handbrake for hill starts.

In practice, now that I have my licence, my handbrake pretty much only gets used when I've parked the car.

I drive a manual, not an automatic.

seamus

work2013 wrote: »

Quick question. I notice you all mention applying the handbrake when stopped. Is this always necessary or is it only for when you're on a slope?

It's considered good practice in all situations, in case you get hit from behind. If you're only using the footbrake, there's a good chance you'll release the brake when hit and roll out into oncoming traffic.

Do people do it in practice? Most people probably don't.

frozenfrozen

It's also a nice courtesy to not blind the person behind you at the lights by holding your foot break the entire time and to instead just put on the handbrake*..