planting a beach hedge

Greengrass1

We have an avenue here of beach trees possibly 200yrs or older sitting on top of a dry stone wall as well as 25 very mature lime trees 200+yrs old also on avenue to.
I want to sow a green beach hedge along the road to tie in with the rest of the farm yard and house entrance. I dug up beach saplings from out own wood two yrs ago but only half survived.

My question is
When should I sow
What's the easiest way to sow on top of a ditch with roots from older trees in it.
I have seen people put dung around the base of new saplings, what's the idea here?
Thanks in advance

Red Sheds

The best time to plant is in spring, probably from Feb or March up until say mid April before they start to shoot. At this time of year you are planting dormant plants, which is much easier than planting them in the growing season when they are more prone to failure when disturbed.

I planted a beech hedge in 2012 at this time of year and it worked well. I bedded the trench i planted them in with compost first, (well rotted Farmyard manure and also put that around the roots of the plant as well. Then backfilled the trench with the soil that i had dug out. I have had a small failure rate and any ones i replaced I planted them in a rich mixture of rotted farmyard manure and clay and they seem to have done well.

Beech dont thrive well in very wet or water logged soils, but by the sounds of it you dont have that if you have 200 year old ones already. I dont think they will grow well in rocky ground or where there is lots of stone like a wall, they need soil and also need a good bit of light to get established, so they might not do well if planting among the existing trees.

Greengrass1

Red Sheds wrote: »

The best time to plant is in spring, probably from Feb or March up until say mid April before they start to shoot. At this time of year you are planting dormant plants, which is much easier than planting them in the growing season when they are more prone to failure when disturbed.

I planted a beech hedge in 2012 at this time of year and it worked well. I bedded the trench i planted them in with compost first, (well rotted Farmyard manure and also put that around the roots of the plant as well. Then backfilled the trench with the soil that i had dug out. I have had a small failure rate and any ones i replaced I planted them in a rich mixture of rotted farmyard manure and clay and they seem to have done well.

Beech dont thrive well in very wet or water logged soils, but by the sounds of it you dont have that if you have 200 year old ones already. I dont think they will grow well in rocky ground or where there is lots of stone like a wall, they need soil and also need a good bit of light to get established, so they might not do well if planting among the existing trees.

Thanks for that. We cleared the ditch 2-3yrs ago because it was only full of trees that had grown on top of each other and weren't right. There's still the few nice ones left on it but no where near as much.
What in it now mainly is old stumps that have rotted a bit.
We have a 13ac mature wood here full of beach and loads off saplings in it so will be using them.
Light wouldn't be great on that ditch the neighbours ditch across the way has mature trees and is shading the road a and my ditch

Oldtree

I would worry about damage to the roots of the mature trees. There is a feeder root system that can extend out to the drip line of the crown that can be easily damaged. While the saplings can be planted out until they shoot it is best to get them in before the end of Feb as after that time the roots are active. Any chance of a photo? Could you put the new hedge on the opposite side of the stone wall to the mature trees? How close are the mature trees to one another?

Red Sheds

Just seen that Greengrass is from Wexford, so it would be best to get them in by end Feb as much earlier growth there than what I have. Always find in the North West here, it can be 6 weeks or more later than Wexford.

Greengrass1

Oldtree wrote: »

I would worry about damage to the roots of the mature trees. There is a feeder root system that can extend out to the drip line of the crown that can be easily damaged. While the saplings can be planted out until they shoot it is best to get them in before the end of Feb as after that time the roots are active. Any chance of a photo? Could you put the new hedge on the opposite side of the stone wall to the mature trees? How close are the mature trees to one another?

The ditch I'm going to plant on has very few trees we cut them down because they were an eyesore and only dirt. We left one or two nice ones on it.
What's in it now is mainly stumps and a few briars.
I'll get a photo later

greysides

Not sure if it's relevant but a nice variety of Copper Beech would be a nice addition to the hedge to leave grow on as a specimen tree. One for the future.

Oldtree

Nice idea, I have a green hedge to the roadside and a purple one to the side and it creates a lovely contrast. I wouldnt plant them togeather in a hedge as the green would soon supress the purple.

greysides

They did that in a hedge at the National Garden Exhibition centre in Kilquaide. It looks well especially when the second flush of leaves comes out... a four coloured hedge.

Oldtree

They may prune it constantly if it is a very even hedge. My beech hedges get a prune once a year in winter with a sacutaures! Where the green and purple intersect, the purple is losing the battle so i always have to prune to favor it and give it a bit of extra space.

greysides

The hedge in question is allowed to mix up the colours but could be trimmed regularly.

Oldtree

You don't happen to have a photo? would love to see it.

greysides

I was afraid you'd ask.......... a photo exists.......... but where.............?

I'll take a look later. It was a while ago and it may not have been a digital.

Oldtree

Take a photo of the photo with your phone

greysides

The hedge is at an exhibition centre/garden shop complex a distance away.

Greengrass1

The last two are the drive way into house which I want to tie in with the first two photos are the type of ditch I intend planting on.
I might plant a hedge in between the mature beach trees too?

Greengrass1

What I intend planting in

Oldtree

I'm drooling, that is a beautiful thing you have there.

Underplanting the mature beech on the driveway may have a few problems under such a dense crown with lack of light. It may be better to site the hedge away from under the trees. I've been in a few beech woodlands and not much grows there as an understory.

What you intend planting in:

The barbed wire will be ingressed into the tree so remove away from it .
I would be inclined to plant inside the line drawn and fence off as much as you can to prevent animal damage, both to the hedge and the mature trees. They are already undermining the mature trees.

Greengrass1

Oldtree wrote: »

I'm drooling, that is a beautiful thing you have there.

Underplanting the mature beech on the driveway may have a few problems under such a dense crown with lack of light. It may be better to site the hedge away from under the trees. I've been in a few beech woodlands and not much grows there as an understory.

What you intend planting in:

The barbed wire will be ingressed into the tree so remove away from it .
I would be inclined to plant inside the line drawn and fence off as much as you can to prevent animal damage, both to the hedge and the mature trees. They are already undermining the mature trees.

Ye its a lovely drive way. No one can understand how the beach trees are still on top of the wall.
Ah no I can't do that, I'll loose some grazing
Ah no tbh I'd prefer plant on the ditch I think it would look a bit better.
Its more so the trees on ditch across the road that's shading out my field

Oldtree

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ah no I can't do that, I'll loose some grazing :DAh no tbh I'd prefer plant on the ditch I think it would look a bit better.

How did I know you were going to say that

Its worth looking after your trees and giving them a bit of space on the edge of the field to protect them. They bring up minerals from deep down in the soil (unavailable to other plants like grass) and redeposit them by leaf and fruit drop on the surface. Leaf/fruit litter can also improve the soil structure and texture. The benefit of shelter from the trees/hedgerow to animals by reducing stress levels, reducing weight loss in cold/wet or very hot weather can't be underestimated. The trees/hedgerow lead to a healthier and more productive soil and animal.

I read an official a study in the UK in the late 90's (but cannot find it) where they proved that trees/hedgerow around a field improved animal yields, beyond the animal yield lost in grass loss by shading of the trees/hedgerow. I cannot remember if specific trees were mentioned in the study.

Greengrass1

Oldtree wrote: »

How did I know you were going to say that

Its worth looking after your trees and giving them a bit of space on the edge of the field to protect them. They bring up minerals from deep down in the soil (unavailable to other plants like grass) and redeposit them by leaf and fruit drop on the surface. Leaf/fruit litter can also improve the soil structure and texture. The benefit of shelter from the trees/hedgerow to animals by reducing stress levels, reducing weight loss in cold/wet or very hot weather can't be underestimated. The trees/hedgerow lead to a healthier and more productive soil and animal.

I read an official a study in the UK in the late 90's (but cannot find it) where they proved that trees/hedgerow around a field improved animal yields, beyond the animal yield lost in grass loss by shading of the trees/hedgerow. I cannot remember if specific trees were mentioned in the study.

Ye I have no problem with trees but only in the right place.
Our place was littered in scrub trees growing up on top of each other
Trees spaced out well and a nice hedge does a lot for a place instead of an over grown messmess
We have a few big fields here 30/40ac and cows love them. Always bang in the middle if each paddockpaddock.
Would have liked to plant on top of the ditch but sounds like its not going to work.
The other problem with too much tree's is slugs/snails.
Normally if you get a good hard winter a lot of fluke will be gone but if you have a lot if leaves lying in the ground it protects the snals and increases your fluke problem

greysides

Greengrass1 wrote: »

The other problem with too much tree's is slugs/snails.
Normally if you get a good hard winter a lot of fluke will be gone but if you have a lot if leaves lying in the ground it protects the snails and increases your fluke problem

Eh?

Those ditches look dry. The type of snail to be concerned with as regards fluke is specifically a mud snail. Its habitat will be the water/land boundary i.e. mud. If there were drains along the ditch....perhaps.

Oldtree

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ye I have no problem with trees but only in the right place.
Our place was littered in scrub trees growing up on top of each other
Trees spaced out well and a nice hedge does a lot for a place instead of an over grown mess
We have a few big fields here 30/40ac and cows love them. Always bang in the middle if each paddock.
Would have liked to plant on top of the ditch but sounds like its not going to work.

The right tree in the right place. Only way to do it from now on. Saying that with an existing resource like the trees/scrub you have, it doesn't all have to be nice and neat to be useful in yield terms, just managed as appropriate.

Greengrass1

greysides wrote: »

Eh?

Those ditches look dry. The type of snail to be concerned with as regards fluke is specifically a mud snail. Its habitat will be the water/land boundary i.e. mud. If there were drains along the ditch....perhaps.

In summer yes but in spring under those trees would never dry out. We had an awful flukr problem here until we cut away alot of trees