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Better Call Saul ***Spoilers***

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Comments



  • Some would say Kim is BCS's Walter White!
    Anyway some nice feeaurettes about the last episode and the season in general






  • the old guy who would not move his house told her sone home truths, that to me started or accelerated her change..




  • I presume "the middle man" who ordered the hit was - is Mike?

    I reckon after lalo takes out nacho, Mike will kill lalo and against the wishes of gus

    Mike cares about nachos predicament and will feel guilty about his inevitable death




  • Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I presume "the middle man" who ordered the hit was - is Mike?

    I reckon after lalo takes out nacho, Mike will kill lalo and against the wishes of gus

    Mike cares about nachos predicament and will feel guilty about his inevitable death

    Hmm..was Mike not seeking assurances off Gus that the job would be carried properly, in the scene outside the restaurant?
    I took it he had nothing to do with the hit actually, though could be wrong.




  • ixoy wrote: »
    While I broadly agree that Kim's turnaround seems out of place, I think it's important to note that Jimmy also thinks it's out of place. He's shocked by it too which means it's not expected and it is worryingly out of character.

    Exactly, which is why I still hope they wrap up her story next season. She's either losing the plot or is testing Jimmy.


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  • I was kind of hoping that the finale would wrap (nearly) everything up and season 6 would be set in the post-Breaking Bad/b&w Cinnabon world (with some flashbacks to fill in details about Kim). I suppose I have time to go write some fan fiction.




  • wanted more to happen with Kim this ep, wanted to see her next move, but I guess just like last year we didn't see Jimmy turn into Saul until this season.




  • Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I presume "the middle man" who ordered the hit was - is Mike?

    I reckon after lalo takes out nacho, Mike will kill lalo and against the wishes of gus

    Mike cares about nachos predicament and will feel guilty about his inevitable death

    Nothing will happen to Lalo.

    In season 2 of Breaking Bad when Walt and Jessie bring Saul to the dessert Saul says "Lalo didn't send you?".

    Now, that doesn't mean something could happen to him and Saul just doesn't find out, but it would kinda go against the writing.




  • After watching the season finali of Better call Saul I decided to watch breaking bad again and realised an overlap of the two programs.

    In the first few minutes of of the first episode of BB during Walts 50th birthday party, Hank sticks on the news and he's being interviewed for putting 3 lads in cuffs and siezing about 700k, this is the same time line as better Call Saul episode s05e04 where it shows hank and gomez chasing them down

    😯😯😯




  • chops018 wrote: »
    Nothing will happen to Lalo.

    In season 2 of Breaking Bad when Walt and Jessie bring Saul to the dessert Saul says "Lalo didn't send you?".

    Now, that doesn't mean something could happen to him and Saul just doesn't find out, but it would kinda go against the writing.

    Well when Gus is taunting Hector a few seasons later, he tells him that all the Salamancas are dead. One of either Hector's nephews or grandsons was killed in the assault on Don Eladio's house, so Gus taunting Hector after that would suggest that guy was Hector's last relative (or at least last one involved in the Cartel).

    That would suggest Gus knows Lalo is dead. Now I guess it could be suggested that Lalo is presumed dead at the end of this season, but I think it's unlikely Gus wouldn't find out Lalo is still alive during the course of next season considering Lalo will be on the warpath whereas Saul will obviously find out he's still alive. So I'd say the most likely explanation is everyone finds out Lalo is still alive next season, but by the end of it, Gus kills Lalo but Saul doesn't know about it (as he's still a bit removed from the war between Gus and Lalo).


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  • Penn wrote: »
    Well when Gus is taunting Hector a few seasons later, he tells him that all the Salamancas are dead. One of either Hector's nephews or grandsons was killed in the assault on Don Eladio's house, so Gus taunting Hector after that would suggest that guy was Hector's last relative (or at least last one involved in the Cartel).

    That would suggest Gus knows Lalo is dead. Now I guess it could be suggested that Lalo is presumed dead at the end of this season, but I think it's unlikely Gus wouldn't find out Lalo is still alive during the course of next season considering Lalo will be on the warpath whereas Saul will obviously find out he's still alive. So I'd say the most likely explanation is everyone finds out Lalo is still alive next season, but by the end of it, Gus kills Lalo but Saul doesn't know about it (as he's still a bit removed from the war between Gus and Lalo).

    Maybe in S6 Lalo is killed buy Gus does not tell Saul so he can keep him 'onside'. "I am protecting you from Lalo Salamanca, work for me or that protection stops"




  • It’s looking a lot like a Kim Nacho wedding... it’s the only way for the story to end and breaking bad make sense.




  • Penn wrote: »
    Well when Gus is taunting Hector a few seasons later, he tells him that all the Salamancas are dead. One of either Hector's nephews or grandsons was killed in the assault on Don Eladio's house, so Gus taunting Hector after that would suggest that guy was Hector's last relative (or at least last one involved in the Cartel).

    That would suggest Gus knows Lalo is dead. Now I guess it could be suggested that Lalo is presumed dead at the end of this season, but I think it's unlikely Gus wouldn't find out Lalo is still alive during the course of next season considering Lalo will be on the warpath whereas Saul will obviously find out he's still alive. So I'd say the most likely explanation is everyone finds out Lalo is still alive next season, but by the end of it, Gus kills Lalo but Saul doesn't know about it (as he's still a bit removed from the war between Gus and Lalo).

    Or even depending on timelines it might work out. I think someone mentioned season 5 of BCS is running alongside season 1 of BB. If true the overlap could work in season 6.

    Possibilities there for a lot of things I suppose.




  • MICKEYG wrote: »
    Maybe in S6 Lalo is killed buy Gus does not tell Saul so he can keep him 'onside'. "I am protecting you from Lalo Salamanca, work for me or that protection stops"
    That's a good impression of Gus




  • I agree with the general sentiment that this episode didn't seem to do justice to the season. It was a bit of a damp squib.
    It’s looking a lot like a Kim Nacho wedding... it’s the only way for the story to end and breaking bad make sense.

    Do you mean a Kim / Lalo wedding? Lalo was definitely impressed by Kim when she told him at gunpoint how he should be running his business. Likewise, it's easy to see how she could be attracted to the danger & excitement of Lalo & the cartel. It's not implausible that she could work for the cartel making big bucks... while also doing her pro bono work. Lalo would even get a perverse kick of that.

    I'm not sure if a romantic relationship really will develop between Kim & Lalo... but I could definitely see how a mutually beneficial business arrangement could happen.... especially if Saul gets involved in some new scam that pushes Kim away in the final season.

    After I watched the finale last night, I went back & re-watched BB S2 Ep8 where Saul is introduced. What really struck me is how similar the Lalo / Kim scene was to the Saul / Walter scene in the classroom. In that case, Saul ridicules Walter's business approach & suggests he (Saul) could do a better job. Very much like the Lalo / Kim scene.




  • ZV Yoda wrote: »
    I agree with the general sentiment that this episode didn't seem to do justice to the season. It was a bit of a damp squib.


    Do you mean a Kim / Lalo wedding? Lalo was definitely impressed by Kim when she told him at gunpoint how he should be running his business. Likewise, it's easy to see how she could be attracted to the danger & excitement of Lalo & the cartel. It's not implausible that she could work for the cartel making big bucks... while also doing her pro bono work. Lalo would even get a perverse kick of that.

    I'm not sure if a romantic relationship really will develop between Kim & Lalo... but I could definitely see how a mutually beneficial business arrangement could happen.... especially if Saul gets involved in some new scam that pushes Kim away in the final season.

    After I watched the finale last night, I went back & re-watched BB S2 Ep8 where Saul is introduced. What really struck me is how similar the Lalo / Kim scene was to the Saul / Walter scene in the classroom. In that case, Saul ridicules Walter's business approach & suggests he (Saul) could do a better job. Very much like the Lalo / Kim scene.
    Probably why she marrries him so.




  • I really liked the episode. First action that was tense and believable instead of cartoonlike and absurd.
    Lalo making use of the passage and knowing the layout of his home to take out the hit squad was believable. Mike's appearance out of the blue as a crack sniper was not and neither was Nacho's ninjalike recovery of the drugs earlier on.

    Also Lalo not having much need for sleep suggests he is a maniac in the clinical sense of the word, which is completely in keeping with his behaviour throughout. He's an evil bastard but his positivity makes me root for him when contrasted with the dour nature of the rest of the main characters.

    I get that you could be frustrated by the lack of resolution with things with Kim when that seemed like it was coming to a head. She's pretty much a dramatic necessity for the show though because Saul doesn't have anyone else to confide in. So it's either draw out that storyline or have him doing House of Cards monologues or True Romance hallucinations. Always going to be a certain amount of trying to hook people for the next season too.




  • I really liked the episode. First action that was tense and believable instead of cartoonlike and absurd.
    Lalo making use of the passage and knowing the layout of his home to take out the hit squad was believable. Mike's appearance out of the blue as a crack sniper was not and neither was Nacho's ninjalike recovery of the drugs earlier on.

    Also Lalo not having much need for sleep suggests he is a maniac in the clinical sense of the word, which is completely in keeping with his behaviour throughout. He's an evil bastard but his positivity makes me root for him when contrasted with the dour nature of the rest of the main characters.

    I get that you could be frustrated by the lack of resolution with things with Kim when that seemed like it was coming to a head. She's pretty much a dramatic necessity for the show though because Saul doesn't have anyone else to confide in. So it's either draw out that storyline or have him doing House of Cards monologues or True Romance hallucinations. Always going to be a certain amount of trying to hook people for the next season too.
    thats the problem entire time line and story line is skewed compared to BB start.


    interesting fact that Saul was supposed to be like one off for badger scene getting him arrested yet his acting got him into full show.


    which puts a lot of creative side to be made, given no one imagined this show would last decade, after BB has finished, yet it still has to tie in with BB to be convincing, and the fact is that Lalo isnt in BB nor kim or Nacho, yet twins would wipe out anyone for their own, makes it less convincing that Lalo goes missing one way or another, and likes of Nacho would be suspected as masterminds to attempt such drastic measures- as he would have little to no gain.


    Im all out for this show to continue as seems another 2 seasons are still possible, but in the same sense timeline would have to be few years delayed, at very least, which doesn't really suit how Saul is developed and Tuco being in the picture within year. For Saul to operate his independent business be on tv and well known in ABQ.




  • gary0345 wrote: »
    After watching the season finali of Better call Saul I decided to watch breaking bad again and realised an overlap of the two programs.

    In the first few minutes of of the first episode of BB during Walts 50th birthday party, Hank sticks on the news and he's being interviewed for putting 3 lads in cuffs and siezing about 700k, this is the same time line as better Call Saul episode s05e04 where it shows hank and gomez chasing them down

    ������

    I don't think this can be correct. It must have been another seizure Hank was looking at on tv.

    If the above was true then Walt & Jesse have already started cooking meth and Krazy 8 may already be dead. Also Tuco would be coming on the scene shortly even though he is supposed to have another 11 months in prison.

    Apparently the current season of BCS is still only in 2004. I know Breaking Bad was first broadcast in 2008 but did we ever know for sure that it was actually set in 2008? If it was then we are still four years away in the BCS timeline.

    There is going to have to be a big jump forward at some point in Season 6.




  • Martin567 wrote: »
    I don't think this can be correct. It must have been another seizure Hank was looking at on tv.

    If the above was true then Walt & Jesse have already started cooking meth and Krazy 8 may already be dead. Also Tuco would be coming on the scene shortly even though he is supposed to have another 11 months in prison.

    Apparently the current season of BCS is still only in 2004. I know Breaking Bad was first broadcast in 2008 but did we ever know for sure that it was actually set in 2008? If it was then we are still four years away in the BCS timeline.

    There is going to have to be a big jump forward at some point in Season 6.

    Yeah the party at Walt's house at the start of Breaking Bad was his 50th birthday. He has his 51st birthday early in season 5. So Tuco was either already out of prison or nearly out at the time of Walt's 50th, so BCS now is still at least 10 months before the start of Breaking Bad.


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  • Is this worth watching. I never saw Breaking Bad.




  • leggo wrote: »
    See for me it makes total sense when you consider the scene with her mother that opened one episode. When you have someone like that who’s grown up around those kind of people, I remember I heard it described as they flip a coin between trying to control/save them and just saying “**** it” in exasperation and becoming exactly like them. I think we saw Kim for the past few seasons try to save Jimmy from his worst impulses, while also occasionally saying “**** it” and dabbling in some low level cons. When she got to the crossroads of having to leave Jimmy or accept and embrace who he was, she didn’t have the heart so doubled down. Then even last week I was saying it wouldn’t surprised me if her showdown with Lalo exhilarated her.

    They haven’t spelled it out but the pieces are actually all there if you look, and it also flips the narrative on its head that she’s some damsel in distress who was in danger (which is also the assumption from Howard that pushed her over the edge here). I wasn’t expecting it, I didn’t know how I felt about it in the moment, but the more I think about it the more I love Saul now trying to be the voice of reason and Kim breaking bad. Obviously the pew pew scene is confirmation of this on their end.
    .

    I dunno I am not sure, I mean the tequila scam was based on fun. The changing of the plans for Mesa Verde with the help of Jimmy seemed to be where she drew the line for a long time. Also she tried to go the legit route with Acker and was extremely reluctant to bring in Jimmy again. Also she wanted to knock Jimmy's scam against Kevin of Mesa Verde on its head. Willing to make up the difference out of her own pocket.

    The jump she has taken now seems to me to be too big of a jump to be credible.




  • The jump she has taken now seems to me to be too big of a jump to be credible.
    The videos linked above give some background to the thought process of the writers for her decision.




  • billyhead wrote: »
    Is this worth watching. I never saw Breaking Bad.

    treat yourself, watch both!




  • Her turn wasn't in this week's episode, though. Aside from her being afraid for Jimmy's safety before he went into the desert, we haven't actually learned what Kim thinks about Jimmy's most recent activities, and anything we have learned has been approving: her saying she knows he's lying but being supportive after finding the coffee cup, sticking with him after Lalo, and they had sex after he told her he was now a 'friend of the cartel'.

    Her turn was in the episode she suggested they get married, the episode that opened up with the scene of her and her mother, those two scenes bookended the episode and now we can deduce are linked. That's when she got to the crossroads and decided to double down on him, and that's very credible behaviour for someone who has an upbringing like we've learned she had. The reason it felt WTF in this episode is because they waited until now for her to show her cards, to the point that Jimmy didn't even know how she felt. We feel jarred because we're supposed to feel jarred, she should know better and this is out of character, we know this is the case because Jimmy is playing out the same confusion we have in his own facial expressions. We should also feel uneasy about the Howard plan because we know her and Jimmy don't end up together once BB kicks in. It's tragedy.

    But all the pieces were there, we even reacted to them in real time in this thread just didn't know where to put them, and that's why I'm so into it because this was a direction that both makes sense and none of us predicted. As a podcast I listen to put it, the show is all about good characters going bad, Breaking Bad was the name of the original show! Yet we still fall for it every damn time they do it.




  • billyhead wrote: »
    Is this worth watching. I never saw Breaking Bad.

    You lucky person.

    Yes. Watch it.




  • Some excellent points made about why her turn isn't actually a turn but a credible development for her character.

    How does it fit into her dedicating herself to pro bono work? Or how she felt guilty about some of the tactics she had to employ to for Mesa Verde and deliberately sabotaged them? Where does that fit into her ethical code?




  • ixoy wrote: »
    Some excellent points made about why her turn isn't actually a turn but a credible development for her character.

    How does it fit into her dedicating herself to pro bono work? Or how she felt guilty about some of the tactics she had to employ to for Mesa Verde and deliberately sabotaged them? Where does that fit into her ethical code?
    She has repressed hostility to the privileged. Definite sympathy with the people who get crushed in the gears of big organisations. Her role as an instrument of those organisations does not sit well with her.

    Walter White had repressed ideas of grandeur that emerged in his transformation. Kim's is more interesting because hers are generally positive traits behind it.




  • She has repressed hostility to the privileged. Definite sympathy with the people who get crushed in the gears of big organisations. Her role as an instrument of those organisations does not sit well with her.
    That's a good take. I still do try and wonder how does she then support Jimmy working for the cartel? Primarily the cartels work by exploiting the poor into drug addiction and crime. In her viewpoint, should the Salamancas not be worse than Masa Verde or HMM could ever be? Or, as she alluded to, do the ends justify the means - better they get the money to use to some good cause than the cartel squander it.


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  • ixoy wrote: »
    That's a good take. I still do try and wonder how does she then support Jimmy working for the cartel? Primarily the cartels work by exploiting the poor into drug addiction and crime. In her viewpoint, should the Salamancas not be worse than Masa Verde or HMM could ever be? Or, as she alluded to, do the ends justify the means - better they get the money to use to some good cause than the cartel squander it.
    I think she's a bit overwhelmed trying to deal with all the mental **** he's bringing her way. If she gets a chance to take a step back she might reconsider.

    Or maybe it's a bit like when you watch half of a terrible film and you decide to watch it to the end, even though you aren't enjoying it, just because you've already invested time into it. Jimmy and Howard suggesting she might be better off cutting ties looks like it just made her dig her heels in.

    Or maybe he's just brought out a maternal instinct. He is a bit of a tragic figure, and kinda excitable, gets carried away with his ideas.

    But yeah she'll eventually leave if he voluntarily maintains a relationship with the salamancas though


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