Widowers and other lonely older men; what options have they for socialising?

takamichinoku

Back at home, when my dad died, in spite of my mam never really being involved in the community and being very close to a hermit, a whole load of women from all over the area started dragging her to all these events. A lot of the events seemed to be constructed specifically for widows and women who were living alone. These seemed to be organised by other women in the community and generally got a bit of support even if they were things that most of the women had no interest in (yoga died a death after about 4 weeks, but a lot of them seemed to give it a shot).

Meanwhile, when any local man's wife dies back home, regardless of whether he's an outgoing type or not, there just doesn't seem to be any options available. There's definitely a certain inevitability towards any attempts made to create a means of socialising would fall flat, and they always do.


Was just wondering whether the situation is better in more urban areas? Why exactly is it that it seems so hard to create a regular social gathering type thing for older men? If there is resistance to the idea of it, what is that borne out of? Are the efforts not trying to replicate the system for women too much when perhaps a different approach might work? Is it somehow an issue that applies to men of all ages but becomes a greater issue when they get older or is it a generational thing which is already showing signs of improving in some places?



Yeah, hope I'm making some sense. Looking forward to any answers/hypotheses which you may have, thanks.

biko

I suppose it's the pub or some organisation like Men's Shed perhaps?

There is an old saying where I'm from, not sure how true it is though
"A wife is usually a husband's best friend, a husband is rarely a wife's best friend".
It simply means that when there is a gap between spouses, like a divorce or death, there is often a safety net there for her because women in general are better to maintain relationships with their friends. Fwiw...

fits

Golf, hunting and other rural sports would usually have a lot of older men involved.
Some of the active retirement clubs are very active and seem to be great although not everyone's cup of tea. My mum did a university course and loved it.

What are his interests?

biko

Are we talking about a specific person or older men in general?

takamichinoku

Older men in general, I have/had a lot of older male relations whose wives either passed away a bit before them or they never got married though. Basically all of them (asides from the one guy who was big into the GAA) seemed to have f*ck all to do, were not at all happy about it but either hated whatever activities were offered their way or were too embarrassed to try them out.
Now, because I'm mostly on about farming men here, it's possible they've just been institutionalised into some kind of solitary existence.

What I want to hear is the kind of things you've seen been done around your area and whether they worked or not, things that older relatives/friends/etc of yours have done to socialise when thrown into a similar situation. If people want to use the thread to ask for suggestions for their own family, that'd be neat too


The problem with things like golf, hunting, gaa, etc is that (golf excluded, perhaps) they're not things a 60 year old man is going to immediately start into.
A BIG social outing back home for a lot of the older farmers is the mart, a lot of retired farmers pop down regardless; it seems to be the only place where they've no problem saying that they're there purely to socialise ...but again, that's something they've been doing since childhood and would be very hard to replicate in a more general sense.

biko wrote: »

I suppose it's the pub or some organisation like Men's Shed perhaps?

There is an old saying where I'm from, not sure how true it is though
"A wife is usually a husband's best friend, a husband is rarely a wife's best friend".
It simply means that when there is a gap between spouses, like a divorce or death, there is often a safety net there for her because women in general are better to maintain relationships with their friends. Fwiw...

Men's Shed is an attempt to directly replicate those groups for widows, isn't it? I don't really know much about it or its effectiveness though, been around long enough that there should be evidence of how it's doing, I assume?

Why is it that they're in general better at that? Why is it that it seems to be easier to both reach out and accept offers to do these little activity things?
Of course, maybe it's a case that this stuff is actually already getting a lot better but won't be evident until 10-15 years from now.

biko

Men's Shed is just a way to get men together doing stuff. It's not particularly aimed at older men per se, or widowers or anything. I don't know very much about them but they seem to be common throughout the country.

Bafucin

If you have nothing to do as an old man it's because you had a boring life.

My Dad still plays music and still has a great social life. I think a lot of older people stop meeting new people and that's social death. You need to socialize with all ages and continue to meet new people. Learn a new instrument, learn a new skill or language, you have to keep learning about the world.

takamichinoku

Bafucin wrote: »

If you have nothing to do as an old man it's because you had a boring life.

My Dad still plays music and still has a great social life. I think a lot of older people stop meeting new people and that's social death. You need to socialize with all ages and continue to meet new people. Learn a new instrument, learn a new skill or language, you have to keep learning about the world.

That'd be my perspective for myself; I should be grand though, there's already activities and courses and whatnot available that I'd nearly want to do now (I'm 24).


That being said, with the women's groups that there are for old women, it's not like they all lived amazing lives. My mam had no friends, no interests and actively isolated herself for about 20 years, but once my dad died there were people popping up from all sides dragging her to things even after months of her turning them down. A man who's a bit on the outside of whatever community he's in seems to be pretty much f*cked.

I dunno...

Javan

My father enjoys bridge (the card game) as a good opportunity to socialise.
There are many bridge clubs around the country, and most will have competitions for beginners and would welcome new members of any age.

Bafucin

It's the strength of the relationships you build up and the ability to keep meeting new people. I half feel someone almost WANTS men to fear getting older. You should be able to have the craic at any age. I think some people blame age when really it's just them. Some auld fellas and auld ones are stiff ****ers. You have to keep meeting new people and making an effort with them at every stage of life.

brightspark

takamichinoku wrote: »

Men's Shed is an attempt to directly replicate those groups for widows, isn't it? I don't really know much about it or its effectiveness though, been around long enough that there should be evidence of how it's doing, I assume?

Irish Mens Sheds have only been around since 2011, and currently lots more sheds are opening (there are loads, some in big towns, some in small villages)

http://menssheds.ie/find-a-shed-3/

Their activities are as varied as their members, each "shed" picks it's own activities based on whatever their members decide.

From my few visits to a local shed, I could see that some of them were there just for the company, that alone is reason enough to have "sheds".

Also don't be mislead by the term shed, the meeting places are quite varied not all are sheds, but a lot depends on what is available locally.


http://menssheds.ie/about-us/

takamichinoku

Bafucin wrote: »

I think some people blame age when really it's just them. Some auld fellas and auld ones are stiff ****ers.

Wouldn't say these are one and the same, mind.

I'm sure there's some who just can't see any opportunities for them or feel as if they're not allowed somehow (either by self imposed rules or by social norms).



Thanks for the replies everyone, by the way

miamee

takamichinoku wrote: »

Wouldn't say these are one and the same, mind.

I'm sure there's some who just can't see any opportunities for them or feel as if they're not allowed somehow (either by self imposed rules or by social norms).



Thanks for the replies everyone, by the way

For men who fall into these categories, I reckon finding something very close to what they did for a living/past time previously would work, i.e. something they already have an interest and some knowledge in. Maybe teaching younger people how to carry on a craft they have mastered or giving advice on farming or something along those lines. I think people (not just men) need to feel needed if they are a bit reticent to get involved in things normally, it is not as difficult when they feel they are helping someone out or being useful to someone/thing.

Like I'm sure some older men would be happy to help in the church, in the church yard, keeping the graveyard tidy, collections, being Minister of the Eucharists etc. but that only appeals to a certain amount of people. I guess the church was the traditional 'social outing' in times past, you'd at least be guaranteed to have the chats once a week and maybe go for a pint after Mass, not sure if it's the same these days.

takamichinoku

miamee wrote: »

For men who fall into these categories, I reckon finding something very close to what they did for a living/past time previously would work, i.e. something they already have an interest and some knowledge in. Maybe teaching younger people how to carry on a craft they have mastered or giving advice on farming or something along those lines. I think people (not just men) need to feel needed if they are a bit reticent to get involved in things normally, it is not as difficult when they feel they are helping someone out or being useful to someone/thing.

Like I'm sure some older men would be happy to help in the church, in the church yard, keeping the graveyard tidy, collections, being Minister of the Eucharists etc. but that only appeals to a certain amount of people. I guess the church was the traditional 'social outing' in times past, you'd at least be guaranteed to have the chats once a week and maybe go for a pint after Mass, not sure if it's the same these days.

Great reply! The problem with finding something close to what they did in the past is that it needs to apply to enough of them to make it into something which could be done as a group thing, I think?

Regarding being needed, that's a very good point, do you think it applies more to men (over a certain age, at least) than women? I feel it probably does for the older generations anyway.
Helping with the church and community issues seem to be good sources for ones who live in the villages around home, alright. The pub has been hit from, drink driving laws, the rural ones closing and, I think, many just pubs catering more for a younger audience.

Mr McBoatface

I'm a Widower aged 37 with a 3 and a 6 year old girls. There is very little in the way of social support and it can be very isolating at times.

Financially the government supports me via the contributory Widowers pension, which is of great assistance. It's nice to know that having paid into the system all my life i'm rewarded "in my time off need" so to speak. Like many people of my age who moved to commuter towns I've no local family or friends to provide support. If it wasn't for my job I wouldn't socialise at all.

The work option isn't available to alot of older people so things like the mens shed are great, my employer assists the local men's shed alot so I see the good work they do. One thing I've noticed in the local men's shed is there are alot of "blow-ins" availing of the service it provides. The older "local lads" would all be involved in other things, GAA, boxing and other sporting clubs all of their lives so their social circle rotates around theses.

Lots of the "blow-ins" in the men's shed are great lads who worked all the lives. Like many other grandparents they moved to commuter towns following their young families. Then they found that their social network came to sudden halt when they retired or lost their jobs in the recession, they found themselves in a town where other than their families they knew nobody. They wouldn't have lead boring lives, many quiet the opposite. When you suddenly find yourself with lots of spare time and the social circle you've known for most of your live is miles away and you can't afford to keep in touch isolation and depression kicks in.

Bafucin

jobyrne30 wrote: »

I'm a Widower aged 37 with a 3 and a 6 year old girls. There is very little in the way of social support and it can be very isolating at times.

Financially the government supports me via the contributory Widowers pension, which is of great assistance. It's nice to know that having paid into the system all my life i'm rewarded "in my time off need" so to speak. Like many people of my age who moved to commuter towns I've no local family or friends to provide support. If it wasn't for my job I wouldn't socialise at all.

The work option isn't available to alot of older people so things like the mens shed are great, my employer assists the local men's shed alot so I see the good work they do. One thing I've noticed in the local men's shed is there are alot of "blow-ins" availing of the service it provides. The older "local lads" would all be involved in other things, GAA, boxing and other sporting clubs all of their lives so their social circle rotates around theses.

Lots of the "blow-ins" in the men's shed are great lads who worked all the lives. Like many other grandparents they moved to commuter towns following their young families. Then they found that their social network came to sudden halt when they retired or lost their jobs in the recession, they found themselves in a town where other than their families they knew nobody. They wouldn't have lead boring lives, many quiet the opposite. When you suddenly find yourself with lots of spare time and the social circle you've known for most of your live is miles away and you can't afford to keep in touch isolation and depression kicks in.

I am touched by your story OP. There is a lot of dross in this forum sometimes but then a story like yours reminds me of why it might be here. I am delighted, humbled and I should eat my words.

My hat is off to you OP. Best wishes and so sorry for your loss.

Susie564

I have a similar problem with my dad - he will be 60 next year and my mam died in 2001. He's not great at joining in with things or trying new challenges. I am always trying to encourage him to try different things or take up a hobby that I think might interest him, but he won't do anything. It's very frustrating. His life is very empty and I worry about his future (& current) happiness.

takamichinoku

Thanks jobyrne30 for sharing that, hope things aren't going too hard for you.
Great to hear such positive words about the men's shed thing, if it's being embraced at all then that should be pretty promising for the future with things like that.

Susie564 wrote: »

I have a similar problem with my dad - he will be 60 next year and my mam died in 2001. He's not great at joining in with things or trying new challenges. I am always trying to encourage him to try different things or take up a hobby that I think might interest him, but he won't do anything. It's very frustrating. His life is very empty and I worry about his future (& current) happiness.

That's 13 years

What's his response when you bring it up?
Is he still working? Does he enjoy his work?

Susie564

takamichinoku wrote: »

That's 13 years

What's his response when you bring it up?
Is he still working? Does he enjoy his work?

Sometimes he humours me with feigned interest :-) but others it's "sure I'd have no interest in that!" He's a very young 59 too - there's plenty of life in him yet. He's very popular among the neighbours and general area. It's not that he's shy - he's very sociable and a likeable, kind and interesting man.

The only thing he ever tried was a cookery course in the local night classes but he's already an excellent cook and could easily have given the class himself!!! I think it's a confidence thing about trying new stuff.

He's retired quite a while now and has had a troubled past with alcohol.

Supercell

Sorry to drag an old post up but rather than start a new , maybe is better to get on the same topic here.
I just heard about these and i had a look at the Irish website and can see that there is one close enough to me here.

I was wondering if these are primarily for retiree's? If anyone here goes to one of them or went to one before, was there anyone say in their 40's going to it?

brightspark

They are open to all ages, obviously a lot more retired men though due to them having more time. I was briefly involved with one last year during its setup, unfortunately work pressures meant I couldn't continue (I'm mid 40s).

Different sheds have different activities, go along and try it.

JaseBelleVie

Men's Shed, card-games, film clubs, book clubs, football supporters' clubs, football clubs in general are usually looking for members to do anything for the club, etc.

Loads of things out there for men of older ages to do, tbh.

lizzyman

meetup.com is well worth a look also

Supercell

Thanks, i did have a look a meetup but nothing really appealed to me there. I like the idea of just doing stuff with my hands (gardening, diy or whatever), even better if it benefits the community and there is a bit of social interaction.

Teyla Emmagan

Supercell wrote:

Thanks, i did have a look a meetup but nothing really appealed to me there. I like the idea of just doing stuff with my hands (gardening, diy or whatever), even better if it benefits the community and there is a bit of social interaction.

How about the tidy towns? Most places have one. It's not all picking up litter. There's planting, painting, fixing stuff, creating new 'spaces' (or whatever). I'm in mine, there is a great social aspect to it. We have a men's shed that opened recently and the only "young fella" I know who went along said it was full of "auld fellas talking" (he's 50). They're a brilliant idea IMO but some of them obviously a lot more "active" than others.

Supercell

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

How about the tidy towns? Most places have one. It's not all picking up litter. There's planting, painting, fixing stuff, creating new 'spaces' (or whatever). I'm in mine, there is a great social aspect to it. We have a men's shed that opened recently and the only "young fella" I know who went along said it was full of "auld fellas talking" (he's 50). They're a brilliant idea IMO but some of them obviously a lot more "active" than others.

Thanks Teyla, the tidy towns thing sounds interesting, will definitely look into that.

brightspark

@Supercell

Looking at what I'm guessing is your local sheds facebook page, there seems a wide variety of ages

https://www.facebook.com/lbs.mensshed