450 Litres of water per second

Harold Weiss

There's a company capable of extracting 4 million gallons of water per day free of charge from a lake which is owned by this country.

The company farms 5+ million salmon per year.

They have not been granted a water abstraction license by the EPA or local council.

The EPA and council are aware of water abstraction and pollution from farming 5+ million fish.

The lake is drained to the tune of 450 litres per second. The effluent is full of ammonia from the salmon urine and chemicals used to treat lice which makes the water undrinkable.

Do the council know all this? Yes. Do the EPA know all this. Yes.

Is it fair to charge people for water while this company gets water for free?

Victor

Would this happen to be the ESB, at an ESB reservoir? You are being awfully cryptic.

Harold Weiss wrote: »

There's a company capable of extracting 4 million gallons of water per day free of charge from a lake which is owned by this country.

Are you certain on who owns the lake?

They have not been granted a water abstraction license by the EPA or local council.

Is this particular company / site / function required to have one?

The lake is drained to the tune of 450 litres per second.

Why are you swapping between gallons and litres? By my reckoning 4 million gallons of water per day is only 175 litres per second.

The effluent is full of ammonia from the salmon urine and chemicals used to treat lice which makes the water undrinkable.

Not good. Is there a desire / need to have this water drinkable?

Is it fair to charge people for water while this company gets water for free?

Well, if other people want to set up their own treatment plant, pipelines and distribution networks, they wouldn't have to pay Irish Water. :rolleyes:

Harold Weiss wrote: »

What's the story on Industrial use of water?

I know a company up north that extracts 4 million gallons of fresh water from a lake every day for fish farming. It's completely a private operation but the water is taken from a state owned lake which is supposed to be protected by the EU.

To top it off, the EPA and council are both aware of this extraction and deny any laws being breached which is blatant lie.

How much would 4 million gallons of fresh water cost this company or is this a case of peasants pay for water and private enterprise take what they like from environment for free?

Harold Weiss wrote: »

There's a business abstracting water from a Lake for industrial purposes.
The lake itself was designated part of a protected site under an EC policy Natura 2000

Does Irish law require a business to obtain a license for abstraction of water for industrial purposes?

If yes, how can I determine a business was granted one?

The business has ability to abstract 450 litres per second.
Sometimes the lake capacity is so low, they use a pump to fill a river which would normally take water away naturally.

OP, I not that you have several similar threads on this topic, which together don't stand up.

You ask about Irish law, but say the site is "up north" (which most people take to mean Northern Ireland.

At one point you say it is for industrial purposes, but another you say fish farming.

You say that the "company capable of extracting 4 million gallons of water per day", but they don't actually seem to be extracting this much.

Harold Weiss

Victor wrote: »

Would this happen to be the ESB, at an ESB reservoir? You are being awfully cryptic.

Really? I'm not trying to match your sarcasm here but since when did ESB farm salmon?

Are you certain on who owns the lake?

Absolutely, it's a publicly owned and protected lake under EU law. (Natura 2000)

It's in Donegal beside Glenveagh national park.

Is this particular company / site / function required to have one?

Yes, of course. It's a private enterprise. They have an aquaculture license to farm salmon but do not have license to extract fresh water required to farm the fish.

Why are you swapping between gallons and litres? By my reckoning 4 million gallons of water per day is only 175 litres per second.

Fair enough.

Not good. Is there a desire / need to have this water drinkable?

Local people drank from that river up until the company started its operations. The Donegal county council advised people in the area to no longer drink water from river because of the pollution.

Well, if other people want to set up their own treatment plant, pipelines and distribution networks, they wouldn't have to pay Irish Water. :rolleyes:

Indeed.

OP, I not that you have several similar threads on this topic, which together don't stand up.

Who do you work for? EPA or council? How do you know I'm talking about a car wash? I'm not, I'm talking about a Fish Farm.

What's your interest in discrediting me or my threads?

You should just ask directly instead of making incorrect assumptions.

You ask about Irish law, but say the site is "up north" (which most people take to mean Northern Ireland.

Yeah, Donegal is "up north" to most people. Some people in Dublin think Donegal uses Sterling as default currency.

At one point you say it is for industrial purposes, but another you say fish farming.

Fish farming isn't an industry? Are you serious? News to me.

You say that the "company capable of extracting 4 million gallons of water per day", but they don't actually seem to be extracting this much.

How do you know?

Godge

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Really? I'm not trying to match your sarcasm here but since when did ESB farm salmon?



Absolutely, it's a publicly owned and protected lake under EU law. (Natura 2000)

It's in Donegal beside Glenveagh national park.



Yes, of course. It's a private enterprise. They have an aquaculture license to farm salmon but do not have license to extract fresh water required to farm the fish.



Fair enough.



Local people drank from that river up until the company started its operations. The Donegal county council advised people in the area to no longer drink water from river because of the pollution.



Indeed.





Who do you work for? EPA or council? How do you know I'm talking about a car wash? I'm not, I'm talking about a Fish Farm.

What's your interest in discrediting me or my threads?

You should just ask directly instead of making incorrect assumptions.



Yeah, Donegal is "up north" to most people. Some people in Dublin think Donegal uses Sterling as default currency.



Fish farming isn't an industry? Are you serious? News to me.



How do you know?

This is all innuendo and inference without any hard facts.

Is it really worthy of a thread?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

**** sake give the name of the company at least so we can read up on it. How do you expect to have a debate by opening with "company x are bad" and not naming company x.

Victor

Harold Weiss wrote: »

since when did ESB farm salmon?

At least the 1930s it seems. http://www.esb.ie/main/sustainability/esb-fisheries-role.jsp

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Who do you work for? EPA or council?

Neither.

How do you know I'm talking about a car wash?

Typo?

What's your interest in discrediting me or my threads?

None, other than your odd posts on this. Have we ever interacted before? Separately, I do have a problem introducing all sorts of side issues into the water charging debate.

Fish farming isn't an industry?

It is considered 'farming' (hence the term 'fish farming') or 'extractive', not 'industry'. Your sentence "There's a business abstracting water from a Lake for industrial purposes." conjures up the image manufacturing industry.

Victor wrote: »

You say that the "company capable of extracting 4 million gallons of water per day", but they don't actually seem to be extracting this much.

How do you know?

Because you said so. Remember 450 litres per second -v- 175 litres per second?

tricky D

I think the OP is mixed up. Glenveigh seems way too far from the sea and the sea nearby doesn't look well-suited to salmon farming. I reckon the case in point is the one in west Galway pumping from Loughaunore at Kilkieran.

Links: https://www.facebook.com/gatheringireland.againstsalmonfarms
http://connemarajournal.ie/fish-farm-fire-water-extraction/

Press release:

Press Release: From Galway Bay Against Salmon Cages:

Farmed Salmon Before People – Local water hijacked by multi-national

Once more the multi-national salmon farming company Marine Harvest is abstracting water from the local water supply source of Loughaunore at Kilkieran Co Galway without planning permission and despite their receipt of a warning letter from Galway County Council on the 11th July threatening Marine Harvest with an Enforcement Notice under Section 154 of the Planning and Development Act 2000.

Marine Harvest are abstracting the water because their open pen salmon rearing installation at Kilkieran has been once again been hit with Amoebic Gill Disease and requires the farmed salmon to be bathed in fresh water for three hours in order to kill the parasite which attacks the fishes’ gills and can lead to high mortalities.

There is a belief that the well boats/ tankers used by the operators of these salmon installations may be bringing the growing list of diseases from one site to another along the western seaboard, from Donegal to Kerry, as they are not decontaminated after each site visit.

It is known that Amoebic Gill Disease can be passed onto other species of fish as well as wild salmon and sea trout who are unable to run into fresh water due to low water levels in many rivers as the rains have by passed the Connemara region. Fishermen are now becoming fearful that wild fish stocks will become infected from diseases from these open pens and lead to mortalities that will be unnoticed by government departments.

Many people in Kilkieran and the extensive hinterland which get their water supply from the Loughaunore source are extremely annoyed with the situation and calls have been made to local councillors and TDs’ to take action and safeguard their dwindling water supply. Many businesses, tourism outlets and houses keeping Irish students, at this time of year, place increased pressure on the rate of abstraction and with no rain forecast in the near future, they are fearful that they will be left high and dry.

Udaras have also come in for criticism because of their substantial investment by way of shareholding in the operation at Kilkieran and the vast amounts of money they have invested over the past 30 years in what appears to be a failing industry. People on the Aran Islands, with reduced water supply, are asking why Udaras are putting large amount of taxpayers monies into supporting an industry with little employment and environmental concerns while they suffer each year from inadequate water infrastructure on the islands and which is damaging to their tourist industry with its much needed employment.

It is believed that no account of the amount of water being abstracted by Marine Harvest is being kept by Irish Water nor is the multi-national paying for their unauthorised supply unlike other commercial businesses in the area. A large new pump has been installed at the side of the lake and this will be used to drain the water out of the lake quicker and in larger volume .

Galway Bay Against Salmon Cages has asked B.I.M. to clarify where they would get the substantial supplies of fresh water to bath up to 14million salmon for their proposal for a 30k ton capacity salmon rearing installation in Galway Bay should it be approved by Minister Simon Coveney.
No decision has yet been made by the Minister on B.I.M.’s proposal but it is expected when the Dail reconvenes after the summer holidays.

_Puma_

Recent government policy and not only going on in Donegal, been given the all clear by, allegedly by proxy, Udaras Na Gaeltachta under their new boss Joe Mchugh who is rabidly pro fish farming(Second part of article). Irish water and local government Councillors being told to keep out of it.

Many believe he has been placed in his new ministry for this exact purpose by his good pal Simon Coveney, who is now on his second charge of Maladministration regarding his Salmon farming policies. Under review in Europe also but looks like he is ploughing ahead until he moves on to greener pastures.

They are trying to bypass local planning laws, and EU habitat directives by going through out of date aquaculture and foreshore licensing system.

Company in questions CEO has recently held private (ie no FOI due to corporate confidentiality) with the Toasieach and Taoiseach in waiting Simon Coveney.

Harold Weiss

**** sake give the name of the company at least so we can read up on it. How do you expect to have a debate by opening with "company x are bad" and not naming company x.

The only sensible response in this thread so far.

The name of company is Marine Harvest.

Harold Weiss

Government agent wrote:

I think the OP is mixed up. Glenveigh seems way too far from the sea and the sea nearby doesn't look well-suited to salmon farming. I reckon the case in point is the one in west Galway pumping from Loughaunore at Kilkieran.

I agree.

Harold Weiss

Marine Harvest in Donegal extract 4 million gallons of fresh water per day for fish farming. They have no license to extract the water. Donegal County Council and EPA know about it. They also pollute water with Salmon Urine and chemicals used to treat Salmon lice.

Harold Weiss

Private industry can get free water but peasants, can't. That's the policy of Irish Government.

hatrickpatrick

I think the OP's post came across like a leaflet, which is something people here aren't too fond of. So let me just sum up what for me are the two key remarks so far in the thread:

Victor wrote: »

Well, if other people want to set up their own treatment plant, pipelines and distribution networks, they wouldn't have to pay Irish Water. :rolleyes:

And

Harold Weiss wrote: »

Marine Harvest in Donegal extract 4 million gallons of fresh water per day for fish farming. They have no license to extract the water. Donegal County Council and EPA know about it. They also pollute water with Salmon Urine and chemicals used to treat Salmon lice.

Victor, I believe the fundamental point at issue here is that "peasants" as the OP has described us (non establishment connected ordinary folk is how I would describe us, personally) would not be allowed to set up such a treatment plant without a license, proper paperwork, etc. The OP is implying that this particular plant is operating outside the law, and that because it's owned by a friend of the Irish political establishment, they're not shutting him down as they would if you or I set one up.

If this indeed the case, it's f*cking despicable. But not remotely surprising. Another example of how two entirely different sets of laws operate in Ireland depending on how high up the political hierarchy one is.

EDIT: Here's a local article about it which pretty much outlines specifically why we should all be outraged by this:
http://connemarajournal.ie/fish-farm-fire-water-extraction/

Two relevant extracts:

A pipeline laid in Kilkieran last month to access millions of litres of water from a lake in the Carna-Kilkieran Water Supply Scheme has been installed without planning permission – and with no agreement in place with Irish Water.

And from later in the same article:

Gardaí in Clifden have also confirmed that an investigation is underway regarding alleged criminal damage to the pipe between June 26 and 28.

There you have it as I said. Double standards pure and simple - the Gardai should be working to dismantle the pipeline if it was installed illegally, but as usual, the law is enforced selectively depending on who you are.
I wasn't actually all that angry about this until I read the above line, but FFS. The Gardai shouldn't be protecting an illegal piece of infrastructure whether it's installed by a local drug lord or a friend of the government. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Harold Weiss

SCOTLAND, UK - Marine Harvest has been accused of offering "bribes" to the islanders of Colonsay to get them to agree to a controversial plan to turn their waters into a giant fish farm, reports Herald Scotland.

The Norwegian firm has promised the 120 residents of Colonsay, to the north of Islay, £50,000 up front and £10,000 a year thereafter if they vote for 12 salmon cages to be moored 1500 metres off their east coast, reports HeraldScotland. It would be the island's first commercial fish farm.

Marine Harvest Accused of Bribery for Farm Site

Banjo String

Hey OP, RTE news on 1 are about to do a piece on this now after the break.

Tune in if you can.

Harold Weiss

Missed it. Must have been about the court injunction?

Marine Harvest can seem to break what ever laws it likes and authorities do nothing about it.

High Court injunction sought to stop water extraction in Connemara