Guardiola showing his class again

Corholio

Pep refused to shake hands with MLS All Star manager after the game tonight, cos of a few tackles they put in on Bayern players. Nothing wrong with being annoyed at some of them, the one on Schweinsteiger was nasty enough, but to do what he did was embarrassing to be honest.

Hardly any tackles in the game before the 70th minute too. He then refused a second time to shake his hand when they were both on the pitch.

RGM

He also tried to get his players off the pitch without swapping jerseys. One of the most childish performances I've seen.

The really funny thing is Bayern is only over there to sell their brand, right? Pep sunk that ship.

Oranage2

No need for tough tackles and playing hard in a friendly, It's a scummy tactic at the best of times, never mind a friendly.

RGM

Playing hard is a scummy tactic?

Muahahaha

RGM wrote: »

Playing hard is a scummy tactic?

He said in a friendly. I presume in this kinda pre season friendlys where you have top European clubs playing in the US or Asia there is some sort of agreement between clubs that wreckless tackles won't go flying in and potentially injuring £20m+ players before the season even begins. That's probably what Pep was annoyed about, they play these games to get the players fit, the manager is only concerned about that so seeing rash challenges go in during what's effectively a nothing game must be frustrating.

Richard Hillman

History will not be kind to Guardiola.

elefant

Richard Hillman wrote: »

History will not be kind to Guardiola.

How can you possibly think this?

Sir Gallagher

Richard Hillman wrote: »

History will not be kind to Guardiola.

MagicIRL

Perhaps he's got a lot of pressure piling on him this season after failing to win the Champions League and being demolished by Madrid?

Bateman

An absolute headbanger (Aragones) and an old-school headmaster type (Del Bosque) ruled the world with the guts of the Barcelona team that Guardiola had to work with during his spell there. So as time goes on, the team more so than the coach will be remembered. Unless he stays relevant by winning more CLs with different teams as other coaches such as JM have done.

That and the drugs.

Kirby

Oranage2 wrote: »

No need for tough tackles and playing hard in a friendly, It's a scummy tactic at the best of times, never mind a friendly.

Arsenal fan in not like tough tackles shocker! :rolleyes:

If nobody put in any tackles, Wilshere would have no excuse to hit the deck every five minutes......and then what would he do!

Shanotheslayer

Apparently he shook his hand outside the locker room.

Corholio

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Apparently he shook his hand outside the locker room.

At the 3rd attempt so.

Skylinehead

Kirby wrote: »

Arsenal fan in not like tough tackles shocker! :rolleyes:

If nobody put in any tackles, Wilshere would have no excuse to hit the deck every five minutes......and then what would he do!

Pff, we're the best at them!

Kirby

I always liked Flamini

Too Tough To Die

I caught the last half hour of this game. The MLS guys were fired up for it.

Andersonisgod

Bateman wrote: »

An absolute headbanger (Aragones) and an old-school headmaster type (Del Bosque) ruled the world with the guts of the Barcelona team that Guardiola had to work with during his spell there. So as time goes on, the team more so than the coach will be remembered. Unless he stays relevant by winning more CLs with different teams as other coaches such as JM have done.
That and the drugs.

I can't believe what I'm seeing. This comment and a couple of others on this thread had genuinely gotten me questioning my vision and, later, my understanding of the English language. How can anyone on this earth question Pep Guardiola is beyond me. The man is beyond reproach, the most innovative football person since Cruyff, the most influential football person since Cruyff. He is a genius whose work at Barcelona, and now Bayern Munich, has changed football. It baffles me that there still exists people who doubt Guardiola, the hero of Catalonia, that comments, such as the one quoted, are still tossed about on a daily basis is jaw-dropping.

Andersonisgod

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I can't believe what I'm seeing. This comment and a couple of others on this thread had genuinely gotten me questioning my vision and, later, my understanding of the English language. How can anyone on this earth question Pep Guardiola is beyond me. The man is beyond reproach, the most innovative football person since Cruyff, the most influential football person since Cruyff. He is a genius whose work at Barcelona, and now Bayern Munich, has changed football. It baffles me that there still exists people who doubt Guardiola, the hero of Catalonia, that comments, such as the one quoted, are still tossed about on a daily basis is jaw-dropping.

How has his work at Batern Munich changed football? Apart from taking the club from European Champions to getting battered by Real Madrid obviously.

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

History will not be kind to Guardiola.

Gwan then tell us more, I've the kettle on

Sheepy99

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I can't believe what I'm seeing. This comment and a couple of others on this thread had genuinely gotten me questioning my vision and, later, my understanding of the English language. How can anyone on this earth question Pep Guardiola is beyond me. The man is beyond reproach, the most innovative football person since Cruyff, the most influential football person since Cruyff. He is a genius whose work at Barcelona, and now Bayern Munich, has changed football. It baffles me that there still exists people who doubt Guardiola, the hero of Catalonia, that comments, such as the one quoted, are still tossed about on a daily basis is jaw-dropping.

How anyone can doubt him: 1) anybody could have achieved great things with that Barcelona side.
2) Bayern were better under Heynckes than they are now.

Those are the points that those who doubt Pep will always bring to the table

Liam O

The hero of Catalonia? Best one yet

Andersonisgod

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How has his work at Batern Munich changed football? Apart from taking the club from European Champions to getting battered by Real Madrid obviously.

He has taken Bayern from being a reactive side, under Heynckes, to a proactive side. I suppose to understand that you must first understand the mindset of Guardiola, to do that you must understand Guardiola's principles. A fascinating glimpse into these principles came from Xavi Hernandez in an interview a few years ago.

"Some teams can't or don't pass the ball. What are you playing for? What's the point? That's not football. Combine, pass, play, that's football."

The mindset is that while they may not always win, though winning is obviously hugely important, history will look favourably on the teams who play with beauty, history remembers greatness. There's winning and then there's writing your name down as being one of the great sides. Guardiola's influence on Barcelona, Spain, Bayern Munich, Germany, the football world, can't be denied, he is the overwhelming force for good in football.

Turtwig

Bayern were better under Heynckes than they are now - and they were also worse. Pep's Bayern had a clear dip in form from March onward. Germany, arguably copied much of his Bayern blueprint.

Barcelona are no where near the team they were once he left. The jury is very much out on Pep being a poor manager, or "anyone" being able to achieve what he did with that side. In my opinion he made that side what they were.

On topic: that was pretty poor of him though.

Sheepy99

Sheepy99 wrote: »

How anyone can doubt him: 1) anybody could have achieved great things with that Barcelona side.
2) Bayern were better under Heynckes than they are now.

Those are the points that those who doubt Pep will always bring to the table

Brought to the table by who? Forum posters?

Point 1 is ridiculous and doesn't show much understanding of football.

Point 2 is probably correct but doing the double 1st season is surely not bad. Semi final in the CL also decent achievement hammering aside

v3ttel

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I can't believe what I'm seeing. This comment and a couple of others on this thread had genuinely gotten me questioning my vision and, later, my understanding of the English language. How can anyone on this earth question Pep Guardiola is beyond me. The man is beyond reproach, the most innovative football person since Cruyff, the most influential football person since Cruyff. He is a genius whose work at Barcelona, and now Bayern Munich, has changed football. It baffles me that there still exists people who doubt Guardiola, the hero of Catalonia, that comments, such as the one quoted, are still tossed about on a daily basis is jaw-dropping.

I have no strong bias towards or against Guardiola, but the statements here are mind boggling. Shocking stuff.

Andersonisgod

Sheepy99 wrote: »

How anyone can doubt him: 1) anybody could have achieved great things with that Barcelona side.
2) Bayern were better under Heynckes than they are now.

Those are the points that those who doubt Pep will always bring to the table

1) a commonly made point that is utter tripe, to the extent where I no longer feel the need to explain why that is the case, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone who had watched more than 3 games of Rijkaards final season, in comparison to Guardiola's first season and then the constant innovations he implemented with that side to find solutions. "Anyone could have done it" is a cheap, easy answer which is given by a person who doesn't understand the problem(s).

2) Bayern are fundamentally different under Guardiola. To play as he desires takes time, to change from being reactive to proactive is tough, that's why Guardiola is the manager, there's no manager better equipped than Pep.

Andersonisgod

v3ttel wrote: »

I have no strong bias towards or against Guardiola, but the statements here are mind boggling. Shocking stuff.

He's Johan Cruyff reborn (granted, Cruyff isn't dead). He's an idealist, a man with dogmatic beliefs in how football should be played. There is no greater authority on proactive football than Pep.

He is a hero to Catalonia. During a time of recession, here was a man which the people of Catalonia could be proud of. While banks and big business ripped off the people, at the Camp Nou a Catalan with a team that has been honed in Catalonia were the envy of football, the eyes of the world upon them, the great pride of Catalonia led by Pep, a man the media turned into the "perfect man" Pep would be the first to admit he isn't perfect but he can't deny what he is and that is a hero, a hero to football fans around the world, a hero of a football philosophy, a hero of Catalonia.

Professional Griefer

I'd love to see Bayern get relegated next season just to seee praise you'd still give him AIG. :pac:

Andersonisgod

Professional Griefer wrote: »

I'd love to see Bayern get relegated next season just to seee praise you'd still give him AIG. :pac:

I still would. He is trying to change the core element of how this team play. His influence was easily seen at the World Cup. This is his second season, I think Bayern will be a formidable force this season, something to be reckoned with.

Btw: he didn't do too badly last season, a double and a Champions League semi final isn't bad, the nature of the defeat to Real Madrid was disappointing but he wants his team to play the right way which is the hard to do, certainly harder to be proactive than reactive otherwise everyone would do it and on the night his side simply didn't implement what he wanted.

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

I still would. He is trying to change the core element of how this team play. His influence was easily seen at the World Cup. This is his second season, I think Bayern will be a formidable force this season, something to be reckoned with.

Yip, sure was.....Spain going home after 2 games..... :pac:

Diabhal Beag

Aul Pep must be on the drugs again :pac:

Andersonisgod

kfallon wrote: »

Yip, sure was.....Spain going home after 2 games..... :pac:

While World Cup winners Germany fielded a team with 6 of Pep's Bayern team in it, playing a proactive style of football that was fundamentally different to the one used by this group when they played at the 2010 World Cup.

gosplan

This thread is everything that's wrong with boards.

Another bloody argument about something as meaningless and pointless as refusing to shake hands turning into a ridiculous argument about how good one of the worlds most successful managers actually is.

Blatter

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He has taken Bayern from being a reactive side, under Heynckes, to a proactive side.

I wouldn't describe Heynckes' side as 'reactive'. I think that is very far off the mark.

Moist Bread

gosplan wrote: »

This thread is everything that's wrong with boards.

Another bloody argument about something as meaningless and pointless as refusing to shake hands turning into a ridiculous argument about how good one of the worlds most successful managers actually is.

I think it's a silly thing to argue over too, but this is a discussion board and people want to discuss it so fair play to them.

Andersonisgod

Blatter wrote: »

I wouldn't describe Heynckes' side as 'reactive'. I think that is very far off the mark.

I absolutely don't think it is. It's a side, and a group of players, that have been playing reactive football for quite some time. Germany's core group of players almost all belong to Bayern, their style was essentially counter attack, except for when the need was to break teams down. While I threw out the Xavi quote earlier, I have no problem in admitting that they weren't a negative side, simply that when they had to break teams down in the really big games (Spain World Cup 2010, Italy Euro 2012, Inter Champions League 2010, Chelsea Champions League 2012) they really struggled to do so. Playing quick, counter attacking football (vs. Barcelona) is when they shone. It's not necessarily a criticism to say they were a reactive side, it's simply stating a fact.

kfallon

Andersonisgod wrote: »

While World Cup winners Germany fielded a team with 6 of Pep's Bayern team in it, playing a proactive style of football that was fundamentally different to the one used by this group when they played at the 2010 World Cup.

Yip so Guardiola had absolutely no influence over the Spain team that were the first team eliminated but his influence on Germany was pretty much the reason for them winning the tournament.....ok!

Andersonisgod

kfallon wrote: »

Yip so Guardiola had absolutely no influence over the Spain team that were the first team eliminated but his influence on Germany was pretty much the reason for them winning the tournament.....ok!

2010 World Cup, 6 of the starting players in Spain's lineup are from Guardiola's Barcelona. His influence on the country's style of play could not be more obvious, as great as Guardiola is, and there is no greater, he can't control the effects of time or exhaustion, nor can he motivate or create new solutions for players he ceased to work with in 2012. His influence on the style is undisputed, it's those implementing the style vat the time that he cannot claim responsibility for.

Vinz Mesrine

Andersonisgod wrote: »

2010 World Cup, 6 of the starting players in Spain's lineup are from Guardiola's Barcelona. His influence on the country's style of play could not be more obvious, as great as Guardiola is, and there is no greater, he can't control the effects of time or exhaustion, nor can he motivate or create new solutions for players he ceased to work with in 2012. His influence on the style is undisputed, it's those implementing the style vat the time that he cannot claim responsibility for.

You do know that LVG had a lot more to do with that style than Guardiola yes?

Boskowski

I'm a Bayern fan and I'm not mad on Guardiola tbh. I find his style very pedestrian. Football by numbers. Possession for the sake of possession. I know it was successful with Barca and Spain but I didn't enjoy watching it then and I don't enjoy watching it with Bayern. I know some people love that but I don't. I prefer target oriented football, I want to see ball in the back of the net and I don't want it being walked in there after playing Olympic Handball style football around the box for 20 minutes.

As for matter at hand I think he has every right to be peed off. This was a pre-season friendly and I'm sure it was talked about in what manner it should be played. Yet Shakiri and Schweinsteiger were on the receiving end of very bad tackles. Schweinsteiger was by his own admission lucky to get of it without serious damage. And he was only supposed to be 10 minutes on as he's just back from hols and hasn't even trained yet. It was clearly a case of World Champion my arse, I'll show him. Thats fairly poor form from the MLS guys tbh.

Andersonisgod

Andersonisgod wrote: »

He has taken Bayern from being a reactive side, under Heynckes, to a proactive side. I suppose to understand that you must first understand the mindset of Guardiola, to do that you must understand Guardiola's principles. A fascinating glimpse into these principles came from Xavi Hernandez in an interview a few years ago.

I'm sure the fans would prefer a team that won the Champions League.

"Some teams can't or don't pass the ball. What are you playing for? What's the point? That's not football. Combine, pass, play, that's football."

I would generally suggest teams should play to win.

The mindset is that while they may not always win, though winning is obviously hugely important, history will look favourably on the teams who play with beauty, history remembers greatness. There's winning and then there's writing your name down as being one of the great sides. Guardiola's influence on Barcelona, Spain, Bayern Munich, Germany, the football world, can't be denied, he is the overwhelming force for good in football.

If you just changed your nouns you'd be a great IDF spokesman.

Pro. F

Anybody got any gifs or videos of the tackles? I haven't been able to find any.

eagle eye

What is this thread about? Are we seriously saying that if a manager gets annoyed at hard tackles going in during a friendly that he lacks class?

Corholio

gosplan wrote: »

This thread is everything that's wrong with boards.

Another bloody argument about something as meaningless and pointless as refusing to shake hands turning into a ridiculous argument about how good one of the worlds most successful managers actually is.

You question Boards sanity yet completely dismiss the idea of shaking hands with someone as anything important at all?

He acted like a prick last night. I dont really have a strong opinion either way on Guardiola either. Good manager but his faults are consistently covered by what he did with a fantastic squad, and any criticism is immediately pointed towards Barca in put your finger in your ears syndrome.

Corholio

eagle eye wrote: »

What is this thread about? Are we seriously saying that if a manager gets annoyed at hard tackles going in during a friendly that he lacks class?

No thats not what people are saying at all. It was more than just 'annoyed'. The way he reacted indeed lacked class.

Too Tough To Die

Corholio wrote: »

No thats not what people are saying at all. It was more than just 'annoyed'. The way he reacted indeed lacked class.

You said "again" in the thread title. When else has he shown a lack of class? Not disagreeing, just can't recall anything else that really stands out.

Andersonisgod

Corholio wrote: »

You question Boards sanity yet completely dismiss the idea of shaking hands with someone as anything important at all?

He acted like a prick last night. I dont really have a strong opinion either way on Guardiola either. Good manager but his faults are consistently covered by what he did with a fantastic squad, and any criticism is immediately pointed towards Barca in put your finger in your ears syndrome.

What faults? He's an incredible manager, constantly changing, constantly innovating. He has gone from being a kid being taught at La Masia, to the hometown hero done good in the 92 Dream Team, to being Barcelona captain, to being the mastermind behind the greatest team, at the same club he's been at since he was a kid, at the same club where his football values and ideals were shaped. "What he did with a fantastic squad" the last bullet on the gun of the Guardiola haters, they fail to mention that this was a squad which he made great, a team that he changed from being a squad on the decline to treble winners in a single season, a team that he raised above the level of just being a remarkable side but to a once in a lifetime side, our Brazil 1970.

It's not finger in your ears syndrome, it's appreciating a true genius of the game, the disciple of Cruyff and someone who changed football for the good.

GavRedKing

gosplan wrote: »

This thread is everything that's wrong with boards.

Another bloody argument about something as meaningless and pointless as refusing to shake hands turning into a ridiculous argument about how good one of the worlds most successful managers actually is.

The argument and hyper boil would have been a lot better had it been Mourinho.

eagle eye

Corholio wrote: »

No thats not what people are saying at all. It was more than just 'annoyed'. The way he reacted indeed lacked class.

If there was an agreement to not have hard tackles before the game and the manager of the other team told them to go in hard towards the end of the game then he had every right to be annoyed and refuse to shake hands. I'd actually admire a man who refuses to shake my hand in a situation like that. At lease you know where you stand with him.

The guy who shakes your hand after something like that but really doesn't want to is the guy I don't like. How can you trust a man like that?

I'm sure Pep's players liked that he was annoyed about it.

JerCotter7

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What faults? He's an incredible manager, constantly changing, constantly innovating. He has gone from being a kid being taught at La Masia, to the hometown hero done good in the 92 Dream Team, to being Barcelona captain, to being the mastermind behind the greatest team, at the same club he's been at since he was a kid, at the same club where his football values and ideals were shaped. "What he did with a fantastic squad" the last bullet on the gun of the Guardiola haters, they fail to mention that this was a squad which he made great, a team that he changed from being a squad on the decline to treble winners in a single season, a team that he raised above the level of just being a remarkable side but to a once in a lifetime side, our Brazil 1970.

It's not finger in your ears syndrome, it's appreciating a true genius of the game, the disciple of Cruyff and someone who changed football for the good.

This is just delusional.

Corholio

Andersonisgod wrote: »

What faults? He's an incredible manager, constantly changing, constantly innovating. He has gone from being a kid being taught at La Masia, to the hometown hero done good in the 92 Dream Team, to being Barcelona captain, to being the mastermind behind the greatest team, at the same club he's been at since he was a kid, at the same club where his football values and ideals were shaped. "What he did with a fantastic squad" the last bullet on the gun of the Guardiola haters, they fail to mention that this was a squad which he made great, a team that he changed from being a squad on the decline to treble winners in a single season, a team that he raised above the level of just being a remarkable side but to a once in a lifetime side, our Brazil 1970.

It's not finger in your ears syndrome, it's appreciating a true genius of the game, the disciple of Cruyff and someone who changed football for the good.

So your saying he has no faults? For what it's worth, he's an excellent manager, but the constant, almost exhausting defence of any sort of criticism of him is equally exhausting and quite childish actually. His use of both Martinez and Lahm are valid criticisms IMO. But then again that's probably going to be answered in the following way: some dates mentioned, La Maisa thrown in, the comparison to past great teams and then a sprinkling on top of some superlatives.

He is constantly changing though, I give you that. He changed Bayern from a team that won everything to a team that didn't win everything. Try and argue something without being so dramatic, it doesn't add anything to your points to do so. There's actually a good argument in there.......somewhere.

Guardiola is an excellent manager who was a bit of a prick last night. Amazing so many can get so jumped up about just that singular point.