Also soon to be homeless!

NipNip

So...........
I'd like to know where I stand:

1. I co-signed a tenancy agreement with my then boyfriend 3 months ago.
2. 3 weeks ago said Gift to Humanity assaulted me.
3. I was granted a Safety Order in respect of said Gift to Humanity/co-signatory of our tenancy agreement
4. The Gift to Humanity can not approach this house under the terms of the Safety Order.
5. One of the terms of the Tenancy Agreement is that I can not let or sublet any part of this property.
6. I can not afford to pay the entire amount of the rent, though I can afford to pay my half of the rent (which I have done 2 days ago). Rent was paid in full along with a full deposit being paid prior to the Gift to Humanity assaulting me.
7. Landlord (second coming of Gift to Humanity) tried to prevent me from closing my front door 2 days ago. I reported same to the Gardai.

Now, the devil incarnate herself (moi) wants to know where I stand in terms of this tenancy? I have posted threads on the legal forum in relation to 'Jointly & Severally', but I have not received responses to my query.

Will I be evicted now? Since I can not sublet, under the terms of the lease, presumably I can not find an alternative house-mate? Is the landlord obliged to pursue the Gift to Humanity for the rent, or to pursue me for the whole of the rent?

foggy_lad

AFAIK the landlord can chase you for the full rent even though both you and "him" are equally liable. the issue is that if one signatory to the lease does not pay it is up to the other(s) who signed to make up any shortfall. IANAL


Also Landlord has no right to enter or try to force his way in the door while you are a tenant! try to get yourself an IP network camera which will allow you see who comes and goes in the house, set it up in the living room or hallway and most of them will also give you email alerts with photos if motion is detected while you are out.

You are obviously behind in the rent at this stage so you can expect a letter from the landlord in the form of a "notice of arrears".

NipNip

foggy_lad wrote: »

AFAIK the landlord can chase you for the full rent even though both you and "him" are equally liable. the issue is that if one signatory to the lease does not pay it is up to the other(s) who signed to make up any shortfall. IANAL

Yes, I expect I'll receive Notice soon. Not much point in having two signatories to a lease then is there. In future, I'll sign for the entire thing myself. Assuming I ever allow another Gift to Humanity delude me for long enough to come within walking distance haha!

Michael D Not Higgins

What was the incident with the landlord about? Very silly of him to try force his way into the property.

Does the landlord know your situation? Have you asked about subletting or assigning the lease?

P_1

While you can't sublet op you can reassign the lease if the ll agreess

Michael D Not Higgins

P_1 wrote: »

While you can't sublet op you can reassign the lease if the ll agreess

And if they don't agree, you can leave without penalty.

NipNip

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

What was the incident with the landlord about? Very silly of him to try force his way into the property.

Does the landlord know your situation? Have you asked about subletting or assigning the lease?

Yes, the landlord is aware of the situation. The incident with the landlord was in relation to me requesting bank details for payment of rent, rather than having the landlord appear out of the blue without notice. He appeared on Monday at 2pm, ringing the doorbell and banging on the door. I am not stupid, I knew why he was here. But, out of bouldness or a strong sense of justice (call it what you will), I refused to answer the door, as I had not been informed of when he would decide to 'rock up' to collect the rent. It's not acceptable to me, to have landlords banging on doors looking for rent. End of story.
So, I happened to be hoovering rather than entertaining visitors at this time, and himself, the landlord, accosted me while I was going to the bin outside to empty the hoover bag! I retreated to my front door. He asked me when I would be paying the rent. I said that as per my agreement with his partner, I would pay the rent at 8pm. I then tried to close the front door but he stuck his thumb in the door and said 'Mind my thumb NipNip'. I said, 'please move away from the door'. He replied 'What are you going to do about it? This is my ****ing house'. I replied that I would call the guards. He removed his hand from the door, I went inside and called the guards. Guards were unsure as to whether it was a civil or criminal matter but must have concluded it was a criminal matter, as they sent 2 guards down, who took my complaint (with a grain of salt). The charmer of a landlord then spent about 20 minutes chatting to the gardai outside of my house.

NipNip

P_1 wrote: »

While you can't sublet op you can reassign the lease if the ll agreess

what does reassigning the lease mean?

shruikan2553

NipNip wrote: »

what does reassigning the lease mean?

You get someone to live there instead of you.

NipNip

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You get someone to live there instead of you.

And where do I relocate to lol?

Fol20

There is a penalty. They may loose a portion or all of their rent. The tenant owes rent until a new tenant is found. A landlord has the right to perform due diligence so it make take some time before a new tenant is selected. A tenant cannot just force a landlord to accept any random new fella as the new tenant.

I do not know your situation and I sympathize with the assault however in your comments it comes across as a self entitled type of attitude. The landlord is running it as a business. Any personal situations are irrelevant to a landlord. As long as your paying your bills. The landlord will remain happy however in your case you can't afford to pay.

If I were you. I would move out and find a cheaper place. You can't afford your current place as you said so why cause more hassle and pain for yourself and your landlord.

NipNip

Fol20 wrote: »

There is a penalty. They may loose a portion or all of their rent. The tenant owes rent until a new tenant is found. A landlord has the right to perform due diligence so it make take some time before a new tenant is selected. A tenant cannot just force a landlord to accept any random new fella as the new tenant.

I do not know your situation and I sympathize with the assault however in your comments it comes across as a self entitled type of attitude. The landlord is running it as a business. Any personal situations are irrelevant to a landlord. As long as your paying your bills. The landlord will remain happy however in your case you can't afford to pay.

If I were you. I would move out and find a cheaper place. You can't afford your current place as you said so why cause more hassle and pain for yourself and your landlord.

I don't care for my landlord, no more than he cares for me or my personal circumstances. He (or she - she's the landlady apparently - though contract is not with her, it's with him) is fully appraised of my personal circumstances, including knowledge of the assault on me by 'himself'. It did not stop him ALSO trying to bully me with his weight and height. Big men these dudes I have in my life. Thankfully, there are judges and laws who stand between me at 7 stone and bullies of 16 stone.

Wabbit Ears

A general rule thats always stood me well is to never rent or get a mortgage at a price above what one person could pay themselves.

NipNip

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

A general rule thats always stood me well is to never rent or get a mortgage at a price above what one person could pay themselves.

4 years into a relationship you don't anticipate the *bleep* almost killing you. What do you think about married people? :eek:

peter_dublin

NipNip wrote: »

4 years into a relationship you don't anticipate the *bleep* almost killing you. What do you think about married people? :eek:

I don't know what you actually want people to tell you, aside from your relationship issues which belong elsewhere you either need to pay the rent, seek to reassign the lease to another person and leave as above or just leave at the mutual agreement of your landlord, in which cases the landlord can deduct allowable costs from your deposit.


As above you and your ex are both mutually liable for the rent in full just as you two people with a joint mortgage are liable for the full amount.

athtrasna

NipNip wrote: »

4 years into a relationship you don't anticipate the *bleep* almost killing you. What do you think about married people? :eek:

You could take in a licensee ie rent a room. This is not technically subletting

Michael D Not Higgins

Fol20 wrote: »

There is a penalty. They may loose a portion or all of their rent. The tenant owes rent until a new tenant is found. A landlord has the right to perform due diligence so it make take some time before a new tenant is selected. A tenant cannot just force a landlord to accept any random new fella as the new tenant.

I do not know your situation and I sympathize with the assault however in your comments it comes across as a self entitled type of attitude. The landlord is running it as a business. Any personal situations are irrelevant to a landlord. As long as your paying your bills. The landlord will remain happy however in your case you can't afford to pay.

If I were you. I would move out and find a cheaper place. You can't afford your current place as you said so why cause more hassle and pain for yourself and your landlord.

What rent do they lose? Of course they owe rent til the new tenant is found but should the landlord not accept an assignment or sublet, they are permitted to end the tenancy as per clause 186 of RTA 2004.

OP, should there be an issue, raise a complaint with the PRTB. They'll also take into account the incident with the landlord who is not allowing you 'quiet enjoyment' of your home. He said it's his house and he's correct, but under the law it's your home.

Hannibal Smith

What does it say in the lease about method of payment? Does it say you'll pay at 8pm on a particular day? Does it say the landlord will call for it? If I was in your situation, and I'm very sorry to hear about the assault by the way, I would be trying to keep the landlord onside, rather than inflaming a situation with payment deadlines.

You should contact Threshold and have a word with someone there about your situation and see what they advise. As far as I know if you are in breach of the lease (ie by not paying the rent) they must serve you with a notice to quit giving you a month to leave.

You could try talking to the landlord about whether they would allow you rent a room given your circumstances, but I doubt they'll agree to anything now.

NipNip

peter_dublin wrote: »

I don't know what you actually want people to tell you, aside from your relationship issues which belong elsewhere you either need to pay the rent, seek to reassign the lease to another person and leave as above or just leave at the mutual agreement of your landlord, in which cases the landlord can deduct allowable costs from your deposit.


As above you and your ex are both mutually liable for the rent in full just as you two people with a joint mortgage are liable for the full amount.

I wish only to discharge my sole legal responsibilities under the terms of the lease. I have no desire to be a martyr to the cause of the landlord, nor to the co-tenant who behaved in such a way as to be issued with a Safety Order banning him from the house.
Now, if one could (without bias) advise me as to what they (my actual legal obligations) are, you would be helping me out. If you wish to speak about the woe of the landlord and the banished, this is not the thread - with respect.

Fol20

Yes laws are there to protect tenants. However you are also breaking the contract you signed by not paying your rent. Two wrongs do not make a right.

I don't meant to sound harsh, but the assault on you would be a personal issue. You becoming homeless is a seperate issue. The fact that you can't pay is the most important part for your homeless issue. Many couples argue, break up, go
Seperate ways and as a result cannot afford mortgages or rent. The bottom line is that you should house share or move to a cheaper place.

A thread came up recently about a possible homeless situation. I would have a read through that as I remember someone mentioning an organisation that helps people in your situation.

drumswan

NipNip wrote: »

Now, if one could (without bias) advise me as to what they (my actual legal obligations) are, you would be helping me out. If you wish to speak about the woe of the landlord and the banished, this is not the thread - with respect.

Your legal obligations are to pay the rent or assign the lease.

Fol20

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

What rent do they lose? Of course they owe rent til the new tenant is found but should the landlord not accept an assignment or sublet, they are permitted to end the tenancy as per clause 186 of RTA 2004.

OP, should there be an issue, raise a complaint with the PRTB. They'll also take into account the incident with the landlord who is not allowing you 'quiet enjoyment' of your home. He said it's his house and he's correct, but under the law it's your home.

Apologies. I meant they may lose a portion of their deposit until a new tenant is found.

NipNip

drumswan wrote: »

Your legal obligations are to pay the rent or assign the lease.

Can clarify where you deducted that conclusion from?

NipNip

peter_dublin wrote: »

I don't know what you actually want people to tell you, aside from your relationship issues which belong elsewhere you either need to pay the rent, seek to reassign the lease to another person and leave as above or just leave at the mutual agreement of your landlord, in which cases the landlord can deduct allowable costs from your deposit.


As above you and your ex are both mutually liable for the rent in full just as you two people with a joint mortgage are liable for the full amount.

If we're both mutually liable, then surely the landlord is obliged to pursue 'himself' for his half before he pursues me for all of the rent?

endacl

NipNip wrote: »

Can clarify where you deducted that conclusion from?

You don't really want advice, do you?

NipNip

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

What does it say in the lease about method of payment? Does it say you'll pay at 8pm on a particular day? Does it say the landlord will call for it? If I was in your situation, and I'm very sorry to hear about the assault by the way, I would be trying to keep the landlord onside, rather than inflaming a situation with payment deadlines.

You should contact Threshold and have a word with someone there about your situation and see what they advise. As far as I know if you are in breach of the lease (ie by not paying the rent) they must serve you with a notice to quit giving you a month to leave.

You could try talking to the landlord about whether they would allow you rent a room given your circumstances, but I doubt they'll agree to anything now.

I have lodged a complaint with the prtb. They have replied referring me to the local County Council.

drumswan

NipNip wrote: »

Can clarify where you deducted that conclusion from?

From common sense?

You agreed mutually to a contract, the landlord is not interested in what proportion of the rent payment comes from either of you, its none of his concern.

doubter

NipNip wrote: »

If we're both mutually liable, then surely the landlord is obliged to pursue 'himself' for his half before he pursues me for all of the rent?

That depends if he is still in the house. If himself has vacated the house, you are left liable.
I also think that you are trying to reach a point to find a way to stay on at the house without paying the full rent. That is not possible, nor would it be fair. There are various options available to you, move out, find someone else to share the house with, rent out a room.Find a (different) job.Apply for rent allowance.
Subletting means only that you can not let the house to someone else. it doesn't mean you can't share. Avail of the options you have instead of making a bad situation worse.

NipNip

endacl wrote: »

You don't really want advice, do you?

Ah jaysus no - sure what would someone know more than meself!

Yes, I want advice. I want advice as to where I personally stand legally in terms of a joint tenancy. If you don't know, just say so.

endacl

NipNip wrote: »

Ah jaysus no - sure what would someone know more than meself!

Yes, I want advice. I want advice as to where I personally stand legally in terms of a joint tenancy. If you don't know, just say so.

But you've been told. Several times.

NipNip

doubter wrote: »

That depends if he is still in the house. If himself has vacated the house, you are left liable.
I also think that you are trying to reach a point to find a way to stay on at the house without paying the full rent. That is not possible, nor would it be fair. There are various options available to you, move out, find someone else to share the house with, rent out a room.Find a (different) job.Apply for rent allowance.
Subletting means only that you can not let the house to someone else. it doesn't mean you can't share. Avail of the options you have instead of making a bad situation worse.

Well, you've read the actual situation well. I do not wish to have to move. I do not wish to have to pay 100% of rent, when I signed up to 50% of the rent. I had advertised a room in the house for the past week, only to re-read the tenancy agreement, which forbade subletting. I am reluctant to move out, rent a room, find somewhere else etc. etc. as I did not anticipate being assaulted by the co-tenant on the house. I am quite simply wondering, whether co-tenancy offers me an protection. If it does not, in law, then I will abide by the law. It seems like a futile exercise however to bother signing someone else up to a lease, if their breach of the terms of such lease, leaves you fully liable?

Giblet

If both your names are on the lease, you're both joint and severally liable, even if one person leaves the landlord is entitled to full rent. It's not the landlords fault. I'm sorry about what happened, but there's nothing in law about it. You can reassign the lease to yourself + a friend rather than sublet. Surely the landlord getting his money then would be agreeable. If you can't afford the lease you have to reassign. You can't live there for 50% of the cash. Fortunately, if the landlord has to accept the reassignment or allow you to walk, you might incur costs though of finding a new tenant.

NipNip

Giblet wrote: »

If both your names are on the lease, you're both joint and severally liable, even if one person leaves the landlord is entitled to full rent. It's not the landlords fault. I'm sorry about what happened, but there's nothing in law about it. You can reassign the lease to yourself + a friend rather than sublet. Surely the landlord getting his money then would be agreeable. If you can't afford the lease you have to reassign. You can't live there for 50% of the cash.

The landlord will not allow me to reassign.

NipNip

Giblet wrote: »

If both your names are on the lease, you're both joint and severally liable, even if one person leaves the landlord is entitled to full rent. It's not the landlords fault. I'm sorry about what happened, but there's nothing in law about it. You can reassign the lease to yourself + a friend rather than sublet. Surely the landlord getting his money then would be agreeable. If you can't afford the lease you have to reassign. You can't live there for 50% of the cash.

If we're jointly and severally liable, surely the obligation is on the landlord to pursue himself for his half?

cml387

NipNip wrote: »

Well, you've read the actual situation well. I do not wish to have to move. I do not wish to have to pay 100% of rent, when I signed up to 50% of the rent.

I think this bit is the problem. You actually signed (and he signed) to pay 100% of the rent.
How the division of the rent was done was up to both of you (and not the LL's concern).

Giblet

NipNip wrote: »

The landlord will not allow me to reassign.

Doesn't matter if he will or not, you have rights that a lease cannot override. Read up on your rights on the PTRB.

Giblet

NipNip wrote: »

If we're jointly and severally liable, surely the obligation is on the landlord to pursue himself for his half?

Nope, as you are JOINT and SEVERALLY liable, he's nothing to do with it. You took responsibility. He will just kick out the tenants and take your deposit. He could pursue you both for remaining rent if he's out of pocket after that.

NipNip

Why would he not just pursue the other party? Why me?

spaceHopper

Sorry for your trouble but you are coming across as having a very bad attitude.

The reality is that you are in the house your ex is not and your land lord expects to get paid the rent – by you. If you are polite and fair with him then he should be fair with you. Maybe he called around to collect the rent early because he couldn't later and was hoping you would be in. Try talking with him and see if he will agree to you getting somebody in the share the house with you however you will have to pay the back rent.

Otherwise you need to move find a way to pay the full rent or move out.

Giblet

NipNip wrote: »

Why would he not just pursue the other party? Why me?

Well he probably would, is he in the house? You are, so he'll chase you. It's simple really. You're in the house paying half the rent, so he'll kick you out and take both of your deposits. You both end up the same then. Not trying to be harsh here, but it's not one over the other, the end result is the same.

doubter

Giblet wrote: »

If both your names are on the lease, you're both joint and severally liable, even if one person leaves the landlord is entitled to full rent. It's not the landlords fault. I'm sorry about what happened, but there's nothing in law about it. You can reassign the lease to yourself + a friend rather than sublet. Surely the landlord getting his money then would be agreeable. If you can't afford the lease you have to reassign. You can't live there for 50% of the cash.

I agree fully here. But again, subletting and sharing are 2 different things. here's my advise: Start a correspondence with your current landlord in writing. Explain what you are doing to rectify the situation.The housing market in Dublin is a sellersmarket, you should have no issues finding someone to share.As long as you are still in the house, it's not a sublet. If you really want to stay there, improving the relationship with the landlord/lady is imperative.

NipNip

spaceHopper wrote: »

Sorry for your trouble but you are coming across as having a very bad attitude.

The reality is that you are in the house your ex is not and your land lord expects to get paid the rent – by you. If you are polite and fair with him then he should be fair with you. Maybe he called around to collect the rent early because he couldn't later and was hoping you would be in. Try talking with him and see if he will agree to you getting somebody in the share the house with you however you will have to pay the back rent.

Otherwise you need to move find a way to pay the full rent or move out.

With the greatest of respect, I appreciate your response, but you have no idea, judging by your response, of the actual situation.

NipNip

Giblet wrote: »

Well he probably would, is he in the house? You are, so he'll chase you. It's simple really. You're in the house paying half the rent, so he'll kick you out and take both of your deposits. You both end up the same then. Not trying to be harsh here, but it's not one over the other, the end result is the same.

You're not addressing my question though. I've paid my deposit, the full rent and deposit was paid, right up until my partner was barred from this property. I therefore paid my half of the rent in full.

Giblet

That's fine and valid, but it falls apart next month when you don't pay the full amount. The landlord is entitled to the full amount, as written in the contract. You are both joint and severally liable. Which means the rent has to be covered by at least one of you. The fact that you both paid 50% doesn't matter. He's liable too, just that you remain in the house so it's easier to chase you. I would get someone in asap. That's the way out of this.

NipNip

I don't believe that we are jointly and severally responsible.

Giblet

NipNip wrote: »

I don't believe that we are jointly and severally responsible.

Does it say it on the lease, are both your names on the lease?

doubter

NipNip wrote: »

I don't believe that we are jointly and severally responsible.

yes you are.

NipNip

Giblet wrote: »

Does it say it on the lease, are both your names on the lease?

The lease is the most amateur piece of writing I have come across, so no, it does not refer to anything like terms such as jointly and severally.

NipNip

doubter wrote: »

yes you are.

Oh right - I was not aware that having 2 signatories implied 'jointly and severally'.

Giblet

But are both your names on it?

NipNip

Giblet wrote: »

But are both your names on it?

Yes.