TC Registration & Pay

Coggles · 03-08-2014 1:18pm #1

Hi,

I have just completed the PDE this year. Because of a very serious chest infection during the year in the middle of inspections and assignments, I had to defer some assignments til the Autumn. I submitted them 2 weeks ago. I will get my results on 22nd August.

I have been asked back to a final interview and I am very hopeful I will get the job. Thing is, I don't have my TC number sorted yet! Am I right in thinking that if my registration takes a number of weeks after school starts, that I can't sign a contract for the job or be employed by the school? AFAIK you must have a TC number to be paid as a teacher.

What's the situation here?

Thanks!

Peter Flynt · 03-08-2014 2:34pm

There was a case a few years back of a teacher (in Galway I think) who was appointed Principal of a school. He was not a registered member of the TC and the job offer was then subsequently withdrawn.

The TC is an awful dreadful money grabbing QUANGO.

My understanding is that teachers who are not registered with the TC are not allowed to be paid. This means that one can be a teacher but unpaid if not registered.

You should inform anyone who enquires of your situation (that you intend to be registered) and when registration comes through . . . Contact the DES to seek back pay.

ViveLaVie · 03-08-2014 3:03pm

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There was a case a few years back of a teacher (in Galway I think) who was appointed Principal of a school. He was not a registered member of the TC and the job offer was then subsequently withdrawn.

The TC is an awful dreadful money grabbing QUANGO.

My understanding is that teachers who are not registered with the TC are not allowed to be paid. This means that one can be a teacher but unpaid if not registered.

You should inform anyone who enquires of your situation (that you intend to be registered) and when registration comes through . . . Contact the DES to seek back pay.

So could the OP work for the school and be employed by them in a voluntary basis until his or her registration comes through?

TheDriver · 03-08-2014 3:07pm

I believe there is no back pay. We have been told that a teacher who lets it lapse or fails to renew will not be paid until they renew and pay cannt be reclaimed

Peter Flynt · 03-08-2014 3:38pm

TheDriver wrote: »

I believe there is no back pay. We have been told that a teacher who lets it lapse or fails to renew will not be paid until they renew and pay cannt be reclaimed

I'd like to see that challenged.

I don't see anywhere in legislation where it states that back pay is not payable.

Peter Flynt · 03-08-2014 3:41pm

ViveLaVie wrote: »

So could the OP work for the school and be employed by them in a voluntary basis until his or her registration comes through?

Those who employ and those who pay are two separate entities.

The BoM is the employer. The DES is the paymaster.

Now the paymaster is not going to pay unless the teacher is registered with a particular useless QUANGO.

This doesn't prevent the employer choosing to employ the teacher.

TheDriver · 03-08-2014 4:02pm

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I'd like to see that challenged.

I don't see anywhere in legislation where it states that back pay is not payable.

isn't the section of TC act 2001 stating that no registration equals cannot be employed means law exists that you cant be paid and hence backpay now enacted. It would be interesting because its up to the individual teacher to ensure their registration is active?

evolving_doors · 04-08-2014 9:28am

TheDriver wrote: »

isn't the section of TC act 2001 stating that no registration equals cannot be employed means law exists that you cant be paid and hence backpay now enacted. It would be interesting because its up to the individual teacher to ensure their registration is active?

I'd imagine there would be grace period for NQT's though or say people returning from other countries waiting for qualifications to clear with TC.

In any event OP ring TC and payroll in DEPT. of ed.

Peter Flynt · 04-08-2014 11:01am

Section 30 - Teaching Council Act

30.—A person who is employed as a teacher in a recognised school but—

(a) is not a registered teacher, or

(b) is removed or suspended from the register under Part 5,

shall not be remunerated by the school in respect of his or her employment out of moneys provided by the Oireachtas.

It quite clearly states that you can be employed but will not be paid if not registered.

It doesn't state that you are not entitled to be back paid if you then subsequently become registered.

TheDriver · 04-08-2014 12:58pm

True Peter. Doesn't say you will either however....

RealJohn · 04-08-2014 1:24pm

Surely any kind of tribunal or court or whatever you'd go to to get that back pay would acknowledge that the OP's case was one where he/she couldn't have registered prior to starting their employment and had done everything they could to comply with regulations and so, would be entitled to back pay. It would be different if someone just hadn't bothered or allowed their membership to lapse.

That being said, I'd say you'd be better to take the job on no pay for a month and then have a job than turn it down and rely on subbing for the year.

Peter Flynt · 04-08-2014 1:28pm

TheDriver wrote: »

True Peter. Doesn't say you will either however....

It doesn't have to say you will.

What's more important is that legislation does not rule out back pay.

TheDriver · 04-08-2014 2:14pm

RealJohn wrote: »

Surely any kind of tribunal or court or whatever you'd go to to get that back pay would acknowledge that the OP's case was one where he/she couldn't have registered prior to starting their employment and had done everything they could to comply with regulations and so, would be entitled to back pay. It would be different if someone just hadn't bothered or allowed their membership to lapse.

That being said, I'd say you'd be better to take the job on no pay for a month and then have a job than turn it down and rely on subbing for the year.

more interesting is teacher who doesn't renew rather than nqt

ViveLaVie · 04-08-2014 2:19pm

RealJohn wrote: »

That being said, I'd say you'd be better to take the job on no pay for a month and then have a job than turn it down and rely on subbing for the year.

Would the school have a problem with taking on the OP without his registration number do you think? Does it cause any issue in terms of signing a contract etc?

Powerhouse · 04-08-2014 2:34pm

Coggles wrote: »

Hi,

I have just completed the PDE this year. Because of a very serious chest infection during the year in the middle of inspections and assignments, I had to defer some assignments til the Autumn. I submitted them 2 weeks ago. I will get my results on 22nd August.

I have been asked back to a final interview and I am very hopeful I will get the job. Thing is, I don't have my TC number sorted yet! Am I right in thinking that if my registration takes a number of weeks after school starts, that I can't sign a contract for the job or be employed by the school? AFAIK you must have a TC number to be paid as a teacher.

What's the situation here?

Thanks!

A colleague of mine started in my school in September 2010 having just completed the PGDE (as it was then). She did an interview in June and signed a contract shortly afterwards. Her TC registration did not occur until mid-October after which she received back-pay. The slowness of Garda vetting was the big problem. On the basis of this example you can be employed but remuneration would be delayed.

Coggles · 04-08-2014 4:20pm

Powerhouse wrote: »

A colleague of mine started in my school in September 2010 having just completed the PGDE (as it was then). She did an interview in June and signed a contract shortly afterwards. Her TC registration did not occur until mid-October after which she received back-pay. The slowness of Garda vetting was the big problem. On the basis of this example you can be employed but remuneration would be delayed.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Did the school have any issue with her registration being delayed Powerhouse? I am concerned that this was prior to the stricter rules brought in since this year which make it impossible to be paid without a TC number.

Does anyone have any advice re: explaining my situation to the school should I be offered the post? I am really stressed about this. Could the job offer be withdrawn in light of my lack of registration?

Mardy Bum · 04-08-2014 7:00pm

Coggles wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Did the school have any issue with her registration being delayed Powerhouse? I am concerned that this was prior to the stricter rules brought in since this year which make it impossible to be paid without a TC number.

Does anyone have any advice re: explaining my situation to the school should I be offered the post? I am really stressed about this. Could the job offer be withdrawn in light of my lack of registration?

If you have gotten through shortlisting without a number you should be fine. A lot of schools would use that as well as fully registered status as away of getting through applications.

Powerhouse · 04-08-2014 8:04pm

Coggles wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for the replies. Did the school have any issue with her registration being delayed Powerhouse? I am concerned that this was prior to the stricter rules brought in since this year which make it impossible to be paid without a TC number.

Does anyone have any advice re: explaining my situation to the school should I be offered the post? I am really stressed about this. Could the job offer be withdrawn in light of my lack of registration?

Funnily enough the very first question she was asked at her interview was if she was TC registered, so clearly it wasn't held against her. After she signed the contract in early July she heard nothing more from the Principal on the matter. She handed him her registration form when she got it and rang payroll to push it a bit. But the school wasn't hung up on the matter at all.

As you point out, time has elapsed since and maybe practice has changed, but the case I mention is very similar to yours and why would they call you for a second interview if it was a show-stopper?

Coggles · 05-08-2014 7:02pm

Hi again,

So I was offered the job today. Absolutely over the moon!! Was in tears after I was so happy!

Unfortunately I'm a bit stressed out over the registration now. I rang the TC today and they basically said it's not legal to employ someone without the number etc. They said it'd be up to the school.

My Garda Vetting isn't sorted yet either. I'm concerned now. The conversation about the job today was very brief and I was so flustered I didn't get a chance to explain my situation to the principal properly.

I am going to have sleepless nights over this! Will the school withdraw the offer now?

Seamo87 · 12-08-2014 7:29pm

Coggles wrote: »

Hi again,

So I was offered the job today. Absolutely over the moon!! Was in tears after I was so happy!

Unfortunately I'm a bit stressed out over the registration now. I rang the TC today and they basically said it's not legal to employ someone without the number etc. They said it'd be up to the school.

My Garda Vetting isn't sorted yet either. I'm concerned now. The conversation about the job today was very brief and I was so flustered I didn't get a chance to explain my situation to the principal properly.

I am going to have sleepless nights over this! Will the school withdraw the offer now?

If you were upfront with the school from the start, then you should have no reason to worry. I'd give the principal an update on the situation, reassure him/her that your constantly hounding people over the phone to get this sorted!

I'm sure the principal will reassure your worries. Like I said, if you have been upfront all along, then there's no reason to worry; I'm sure the principal won't want to lose you over something like this, and have to go through interview process's all over again!

Good luck.

solerina · 12-08-2014 7:40pm

Coggles wrote: »

Hi again,

So I was offered the job today. Absolutely over the moon!! Was in tears after I was so happy!

Unfortunately I'm a bit stressed out over the registration now. I rang the TC today and they basically said it's not legal to employ someone without the number etc. They said it'd be up to the school.

My Garda Vetting isn't sorted yet either. I'm concerned now. The conversation about the job today was very brief and I was so flustered I didn't get a chance to explain my situation to the principal properly.

I am going to have sleepless nights over this! Will the school withdraw the offer now?

They are not the most forthcoming crowd (not a fan of the TC myself)If I were you I would ring the Dept. of Ed payroll section and ask them, I would imagine if the school management know your registration is pending (not that your not registered which seems to be the case) that it cant be an issue or they wouldn't have offered you the job !!

evolving_doors · 12-08-2014 10:05pm

Coggles wrote: »

Hi again,

So I was offered the job today. Absolutely over the moon!! Was in tears after I was so happy!

Unfortunately I'm a bit stressed out over the registration now. I rang the TC today and they basically said it's not legal to employ someone without the number etc. They said it'd be up to the school.

My Garda Vetting isn't sorted yet either. I'm concerned now. The conversation about the job today was very brief and I was so flustered I didn't get a chance to explain my situation to the principal properly.

I am going to have sleepless nights over this! Will the school withdraw the offer now?

Hmm.. i think they might have been a bit extreme throwing the word "illegal" around..

here's what the dept. circular states..HERE

1.4 Where all efforts to secure an appropriately qualified registered teacher who is
not retired fail, the school may employ a retired appropriately qualified
registered teacher. If none are available, it may move on to employ a
registered teacher who is not appropriately qualified, giving preference
wherever possible to one who is not retired. Finally, if no registered teacher
can be found, it may for very limited periods of time employ an unregistered
person.

3.3 An employer may employ a person who is appropriately qualified and has
applied to the Teaching Council for registration. Remuneration for such
persons will be at the unqualified rate of pay pending the decision of the
Council. This provision must be inserted in the employment contract. The
contract must also include a condition that it will terminate in the event that
the registration process does not conclude by the following 31 August and the
employer must repeat the recruitment process. If the person becomes
registered before that date, incremental salary will be payable from the date of
registration.

Looks like it 'should' be at the unqualified rate.....Dunno what happens if the provision isn't inserted into the employment contract though!! Maybe you would have expectations of full pay as per contract so therefore you should get full pay.

I'd say that in the heel of the hunt say nothing (you've said what you had to say to the principal). The TC registration should come through in the meantime while the dept. are trying to figure out what's going on.

I think once you ring the dept. for the first time they will be asking for your permission to contact the teaching council. This to-ing and fro-ing will buy you enough time for the TC to get their act together and register you. Just keep on to the Dept. and repeat that you don;t know what the hold up is. If they consider that it's the delay at the TC end then they should give you the backpay at the full rate.

Worst case scenario you'll be paid at the unqualified rate for a few weeks and even at that you could go all guns blazing waving your contract in hand stating that "This provision [to be paid at unqualified rate] wasn't inserted in my employment contract."

TC Registration & Pay

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