Good investment in Cork City suburbs

misshoney

Where in your view would be a good place to buy a family home with the view to sell on in 3-5 years time at a profit or at least not at a loss? We are looking at suburbs where the houses would be good acumulators, Bishopstown for example. There are no houses in the area we want to settle down in but we want to buy now while we have mortgage approval and before they go up even more. At the moment we are staying with in laws and obviously cant do that for much longer. partner would be fairly handy aswell and is in a trade so would be hoping to add value that way aswell. Bishopstown seems a good one, especially as its capped by the greyhound track and therefore doesn't leave room for new development. Considering Ballincollig also as its fast growing.

TheDriver

firstly, it scares me a bit that you have a 2006 mentality: there unfortunately is NO guarantee of anything and your house could plummet in value. Having said that, good places to buy would be rochestown or douglas. If its rent you want, its wilton etc however it may not be the best place to live as your home with family due to high level of renters.

misshoney

I knew even as I typed the words 'we want to buy now while we have mortgage approval and before they go up even more' that it sounded like an eerie blast from the past and as if we haven't learned anything. However, for us, really the alternative isn't viable as we are a family with a child living with my in laws. We have been anxious to buy a house for a while now and are going mad we didn't purchase last year. Really didn't see this upturn in house prices coming. As I say, there are no affordable houses that we like in the area we want to settle in eventually. For that reason we are looking for a stopgap house. We just think that obviously our stopgap house would also want to serve as a sound investment if we are going to be moving on in the next few years. We would ideally profit from it if we bought for less than we are saving and kept putting away the difference in addition to the value of the house increasing before we sell and the added bonus of my partner being able to work on it and add value that way. We could rent a place but wouldn't score from doing it up etc. I could be way off but I suppose that's why I'm posting for advice.

Eldarion

misshoney wrote: »

There are no houses in the area we want to settle down in but we want to buy now while we have mortgage approval and before they go up even more.

Good God, more of it! Apparently 8 years is ancient history and easily forgotten.

2006 called, it wants its fear mentality and investment strategy back.

cpoh1

misshoney wrote: »

As I say, there are no affordable houses that we like in the area we want to settle in eventually. For that reason we are looking for a stopgap house.

This makes no sense. If the houses are not affordable now what makes you think they will be affordable to you down the line? If you buy a house now and wait for prices to drop in the area you want to live in the future you will be just as badly off because your current house will have dropped in value with the houses in the area you want to live in. The cost to change/move will be just the same if houses go up/down/stay the same price.

Your best bet is to either rent and wait for the houses to reduce in value (very unlikely) or buy a house that you can see yourself settling down in long term with the hope that someday you may be able to afford a nicer house if things change.

We all want a big nice house in the best neighbourhood in town, the problem is so does everyone else, you have to be realistic sometimes!

cpoh1

Where in Cork are you looking miss honey?

Shedite27

Douglas and Bishopstown are the two nicest suburbs of Cork.

misshoney

cpoh1 wrote: »

This makes no sense. If the houses are not affordable now what makes you think they will be affordable to you down the line? If you buy a house now and wait for prices to drop in the area you want to live in the future you will be just as badly off because your current house will have dropped in value with the houses in the area you want to live in. The cost to change/move will be just the same if houses go up/down/stay the same price.

Your best bet is to either rent and wait for the houses to reduce in value (very unlikely) or buy a house that you can see yourself settling down in long term with the hope that someday you may be able to afford a nicer house if things change.

We all want a big nice house in the best neighbourhood in town, the problem is so does everyone else, you have to be realistic sometimes!

Not necessarily. Where we are looking to settle down eventually would actually be more competitive in terms of price. It is, however, an urban-rural area outside of the suburbs so there aren't a whole pile of houses for sale there and those that are we either don't like or they are out of our price range. We are not wanting to settle down there because its the best neighbourhood in town, we want to live there because its near where I work. We were hoping that by living in a good area investment wise that the rise and fall in values comparitively with the area we want to buy in eventually would not be the same. We want to buy there when there is not a proverbial gun to our head like there is when you're living in someone else's home. Also, we will have an additional monthly income that we haven't had before which will take effect from October.

SpaceTime

Honestly, I'd say pick a house and an area that you really like and somewhere that you want to live.

Selecting a house in this market purely for speculative value isn't really a very good idea.

Cork's far more likely to be kind of 'plain sailing' for the next decade or more when it comes to house prices. I can't really see anything that's likely to drive prices up dramatically and you're certainly highly unlikely to see anything like the kinds of rises seen in the past.

If I were looking for something, it would be something that I could see myself living in, renovating and making my own.

You're simply not going to make a quick buck and flip a house after a few years in the Cork market.

You could be living in this house for decades, so make your selection wisely!

Also, I wouldn't just narrow my selection to Douglas and Bishopstown. There are other nice parts of the city too. Some may be out of your budget but older areas with really quaint and characterful housing like Ballinlough, Blackrock, Montenotte, Sunday's Well are all worth looking at.

My own preference in Cork would be proximity to the city centre without being actually in the city centre.

...

The other things to think about (and they are serious issues)

1) Cost of commute. The likelihood over the next 30 years is that energy prices will rise and may even rise substantially so, don't pick somewhere that's going to leave you car dependent for work / groceries, or that's going to result in high petrol spends.

2) Pick somewhere that's either got decent energy consumption ratings already or that you have a budget to upgrade over a few years to. There's no point in literally burning money.

3) Proximity to amenities and services - Sitting in traffic driving the kids to school isn't fun!

....

My own strategy is to hedge against steep energy costs by picking somewhere I can walk to and investing in insulation, solar panels, efficient heating and all that sort of thing.

Oh yeah one BIG issue:

Check where's flooded and what the flood risks are. Some places in Cork that you wouldn't necessarily expect to have flooded have been hit quite badly over the years.

I'd go for a house on a hill if at all possible!

Eldarion

Shedite27 wrote: »

Douglas and Bishopstown are the two nicest suburbs of Cork.

Douglas maybe, not Bishopstown. Bishopstown benefits from the proximity to the colleges and the hospitals which keeps the property value high. That doesn't necessarily make it a nice/affluent area

I'd put Blackrock, Ballinlough, Ballintemple, Rochestown etc all well above Bishopstown.

SpaceTime

It's just a personal taste thing, but I'm quite put off by the architecture in Wilton and Bishopstown. They're very bland suburbs with a lot of 50s-70s architecture.

I also think the area lacks amenities like restaurants and interesting shops. That's an area where Douglas in particular is really good and the closer-in suburbs like Ballnlough, Blackrock, Montenotte etc all have easy access to the city centre which is a huge amenity in itself.

You've nice views, walks, etc in some of those closer in suburbs too.

---

My view of it is that it's a small city and you can have a very high quality of life, but you have to choose carefully if you want to be able to access everything the city itself offers without necessarily being uncomfortably close to urban grittiness. There's a nice balance in the inner suburbs.

cpoh1

Eldarion wrote: »

Douglas maybe, not Bishopstown. Bishopstown benefits from the proximity to the colleges and the hospitals which keeps the property value high. That doesn't necessarily make it a nice/affluent area

I'd put Blackrock, Ballinlough, Ballintemple, Rochestown etc all well above Bishopstown.

Nearly spat out the coffee when I saw Douglas and Bishopstown mentioned! As a lad who grew up in Douglas the place is filthy, and is getting dog rough these days. As you mentioned above the places listed are all much more desirable to live in than Douglas...

cpoh1

misshoney wrote: »

Not necessarily. Where we are looking to settle down eventually would actually be more competitive in terms of price. It is, however, an urban-rural area outside of the suburbs so there aren't a whole pile of houses for sale there and those that are we either don't like or they are out of our price range. We are not wanting to settle down there because its the best neighbourhood in town, we want to live there because its near where I work. We were hoping that by living in a good area investment wise that the rise and fall in values comparitively with the area we want to buy in eventually would not be the same. We want to buy there when there is not a proverbial gun to our head like there is when you're living in someone else's home. Also, we will have an additional monthly income that we haven't had before which will take effect from October.

Still not making sense. If you are simply waiting for a house to come around in your price range in the outer suburbia area you want to buy in then just rent and wait. Why tie yourself to a chain and a mortgage in the meantime in the long shot chance property will continue rising in the inner city suburbs.

I dont think you are being realistic about what you can afford - if its not in your price range now it wont be in 5 years in all likelihood.

cpoh1

There was a window of opportunity in Blackrock/Ballintemple/Ballinlough around 2012 and early 2013 where property in these areas hit the bottom. 3 bed semis in ballinlough and ballintemple were at ~€220k needing ~€80k modernisation and extending to have a real nice family home.

That ship has sailed and prices in these areas are very strong the last 12 months with demand building month on month. Similar houses are now going for €300k+ in these areas.

Peoples expectations grew with the recession and to an extent their sense of entitlement (not to be harsh). People who never bought in the boom and could never have afforded to buy in these areas at the time now had an opportunity with lower prices due to a number of factors.

The biggest problem in cork at the moment is that people cant accept that the bottom was hit 2 years ago and the price now is more akin to the norm for these areas. Everyone wants to live there and for the same price as 2012. Some people wont readjust their expectations and look further afield to Ballincollig/carrigaline/frankfield as a result.

A little off topic but reminds me of the OP's situation. "Cant afford it now but will wait it out".

draiochtanois

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TheDriver

also subsidence as even though your house is fine, insurance will cost you a fortune (i.e. 600 euro more each year than you should elsewhere)

Mrs OBumble

OP, why exactly can't you rent while you wait for something suitable? Would save you a lot in transaction costs, and make your timing and lot more flexible.

Buying for less than ten years iscmadness, IMHO

Eldarion

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, why exactly can't you rent while you wait for something suitable? Would save you a lot in transaction costs, and make your timing and lot more flexible.

Buying for less than ten years iscmadness, IMHO

Because they'll miss the boat! There's panic on the streets again, people need to buy now before they're priced out of the market!

:rolleyes:

Sleephead

Viewed a house in Deerpark yesterday, in Friars Walk.

The estate looks really well kept and the house is in a turnkey condition.

Seems expensive though? Is it a location thing?

draiochtanois

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Sleephead

draiochtanois wrote: »

Only family houses that are close to the centre of Cork. 15 - 20 mins walking distance to UCC or city centre.

I actually walked from city centre in 10 mins so it's close alright. 275k for a 3 bed semi though.... Can only imagine what they once went for!

Would be very interested around 250k. Dilemma!

TheDriver

I thought there was something about houses around Deerpark and serious amount of subsidence. A boardsie even stated here that they claimed off the insurance and it was cheaper and better to knock and built again, which they did.

daviecronin

I think it's great you want to invest! It's the time to do it! People were crazy and still are crazy thinking you shouldn't. I'm not advising you to spend millions but a small investment could go a long way. The first rule of property in my books hahah - buy when nobody's buying sell when everyone's buying. It makes simple sense? I doubt property will ever get this low again. Once dublin starts to recover Ireland starts to recover!

Sleephead

Sleephead wrote: »

Viewed a house in Deerpark yesterday, in Friars Walk.

The estate looks really well kept and the house is in a turnkey condition.

Seems expensive though? Is it a location thing?

Close to the city centre etc but only a stones throw from less desirable areas, most of the immediate surrounds being less desirable. Friars walk, Greenmount, Noonans Rd & Mount Sion Rd for example.

Glasheen area would be worth a look if a little further from City Centre suits.

jlm29

Sleephead wrote: »

Viewed a house in Deerpark yesterday, in Friars Walk.

The estate looks really well kept and the house is in a turnkey condition.

Seems expensive though? Is it a location thing?

Yup! Location! I used to rent there and it was super handy for everything!

MouseTail

daviecronin wrote: »

I think it's great you want to invest! It's the time to do it! People were crazy and still are crazy thinking you shouldn't. I'm not advising you to spend millions but a small investment could go a long way. The first rule of property in my books hahah - buy when nobody's buying sell when everyone's buying. It makes simple sense? I doubt property will ever get this low again. Once dublin starts to recover Ireland starts to recover!

Eh, I think your post is a couple of years late..

Sleephead

TheDriver wrote: »

I thought there was something about houses around Deerpark and serious amount of subsidence. A boardsie even stated here that they claimed off the insurance and it was cheaper and better to knock and built again, which they did.

Well there's 200 houses in the park standing for 20 years so that would suggest otherwise!

Had an engineer check a house there earlier in the year and it was perfect. Just got out bid in the end

draiochtanois

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cpoh1

Sleephead wrote: »

Well there's 200 houses in the park standing for 20 years so that would suggest otherwise!

Had an engineer check a house there earlier in the year and it was perfect. Just got out bid in the end

Lots of panic in cork about subsidence. Its is extremely rare to have to knock a house due to slippng foundations. Underpinning costs between 10-40k from average to severe cases with a little disruption during the work. People blow similar amounts buying new cars and having them depreciate over the years.

Once the plumbing is fine and there are no signs of slippage with major cracks on the interior exterior walls then the house will be fine.

daviecronin

MouseTail wrote: »

Eh, I think your post is a couple of years late..

Eh,, I don't think so

cpoh1

daviecronin wrote: »

Eh,, I don't think so

Actually mousetail is right. There are very few good investments in cork, all the good areas are already at a premium and the ones that are not will never be. Even a rise in 25% over 5 years wouldnt yield much if anything when you factor in stamp, solicitor and other associated fees along with interest. In short you have no idea what you are on about.

captainshamroc

Cork is overpriced. Price equal to 15 times annual rent exists nowhere in the city and people think high houses prices are good. As soon as people heard prices in Dublin were going up they started to raise the prices here. Back on the merry go round.

JeffKenna

Shedite27 wrote: »

Douglas and Bishopstown are the two nicest suburbs of Cork.

Douglas is a pain for traffic though

Sleephead

draiochtanois wrote: »

http://www.daft.ie/price-register/cork-city/cork-city-centre/deerpark/?min_beds=%2A&max_beds=%2A&min_price=%2A&max_price=%2A&pt_id=%2A&search=Search+%BB

Might be some room so!

ChalyIE

I wonder if Frankfield is really so nice because it is close to the airport and also I didn't saw any shops there. An area like Ballincollig looks for me much better.

Sleephead

ChalyIE wrote: »

I wonder if Frankfield is really so nice because it is close to the airport and also I didn't saw any shops there. An area like Ballincollig looks for me much better.

The problem with Ballincollig and Carrigaline is that they are now approaching a level of population that was never planned for. Ticking time bomb IMO

ChalyIE

Higher population makes it more interesting for companies, which will provide jobs. Also it might attract shops and service provider to open a branch.

eyescreamcone

Rents for a 4 bed in Deerpark are around 1350/1400 per month and rising.

You could do a lot worse for €280K-ish

The_Conductor

To be honest- unless you can think longer term- 3 to 5 years is bonkers for buying property. Its entirely forseeable that there may be a crash again- with the abolition of favourable tax treatment on CGT by the end of the year- which could potentially have a lot of investors offloading property imminently. Thereafter- there isn't a lot of money sloshing around- most of it has been chased into the open already........

3-5 years- forget it- 15-20 years, is more what you should be looking at.

MouseTail

The_Conductor wrote: »

there isn't a lot of money sloshing around- most of it has been chased into the open already.......

There isnt evidence to support that, in fact deposits are rising. Thats leaving aside the foreign investment coming in via REITs.

draiochtanois

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Pro Hoc Vice

draiochtanois wrote: »

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So on a 300k house you are saying legal fees of 3k lol I know a number of solicitors who would love that kind of fee for a transaction my own knowledge such a transaction would cost 1.5k plus VAT and outlays or in other words .5% shopping around may save a few hundred more.

draiochtanois

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ABajaninCork

There isn't a lot of good quality housing stock in Cork ATM. If you're looking to buy in the South of the city, personally I'd avoid Douglas, Rochestown and Carragaline. Lovely areas, but a pain in the rear with the traffic. IMO I'd be looking at Blackrock, Ballinlough and Ballintemple which are nicer areas, close to the City centre and good transport links.

No chance of looking at the Northside? Ballyvolane, St Luke's, Montenotte, and perhaps Silversprings/Tivoli might give you better value. Or maybe you can look at the commuter towns like Glounthane, Carrigtohill, and Midleton. Even better value and on the train route.

I second the suggestion that before you decide on an area, check the flood maps VERY carefully!

Pro Hoc Vice

draiochtanois wrote: »

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You have a point.

Eldarion

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If you're looking to buy in the South of the city, personally I'd avoid Douglas, Rochestown and Carragaline. Lovely areas, but a pain in the rear with the traffic.

If you're going long term there has been planning approval to improve the infrastructure in this area. Could be a few years coming but I do see property value in these areas increasing significantly if the traffic/commuter problem is resolved.

ABajaninCork

Eldarion wrote: »

If you're going long term there has been planning approval to improve the infrastructure in this area. Could be a few years coming but I do see property value in these areas increasing significantly if the traffic/commuter problem is resolved.

If it comes at all!! I wouldn't be banking on it. Council are already squawking about the cost of the Blackpool/Ballyvolane flood relief scheme...

draiochtanois

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ABajaninCork

draiochtanois wrote: »

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There's good and bad areas everywhere. I'm sure the OP can work out which is which!

cpoh1

Eldarion wrote: »

If you're going long term there has been planning approval to improve the infrastructure in this area. Could be a few years coming but I do see property value in these areas increasing significantly if the traffic/commuter problem is resolved.

Its never going to happen in reality. In rochestown you already have access to the link nearby, its getting on there is the problem and there is no space to expand road networks or install bus lanes etc. No room for trains either.

Short of building monorails or overhead metros like the dutch do you will always have traffic in Douglas and Rochestown. The new junction in douglas has only made traffic worse if anything.

eyescreamcone

Some people would advise you to buy inside the south link road