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cold calling laws
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30-07-2014 9:47am#1
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thanks . out side glass you mean? does it stop junk mail too?knarkypants wrote: »This is the exact one I have
It's waterproof and self adhesive. I haven't had any problems with it and it's been stuck on the outside of my front door since last September.0 -
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Did you have lists of people who had said no? If there are a few cold callers in an area sometimes two can call in one day
The only company I worked for with any kind of list, was Eircom, but it wasn't comprehensive. The other thing to consider is that people change address and even if they don't, different people will answer the same door and the same people might be in a different mood with the next sales rep, or with the same rep on a different day. I signed up one Guy to EsatBT who was an ex Eircom employee and was adamant he would never switch. I called 3 times over a the course of a year and always had a good banter with him. When I called about a year later (funnily I was working for Eircom then) he thanked me for switching him to EsatBT and didn't want to sign up with Eircom. :cool:Recondite49 wrote: »Hi GoodLord,
I had a brief and awful stint with door to door sales in the Hampshire area when living in the UK.
I have spent the remaining years campaigning against firms which offer door to door work as it's often commission only and I feel they mislead people into working for them for no money.
Some people are just disrespectful. Ripping the stickers off doors was a scummy thing to be doing.
There are plenty of companies that offer a basic and some offer basic + commission. I worked for the commission only. And while I do see where you are coming from, I also believe that a lot can be learned by working for one of these companies. It's very tough and you can easily work a full week and make very little money. But, you can also earn lots and you don't have to mislead a single person to do it. Very often, he wrong people are doing the teaching and bad habits are passed onto new reps. I was very good at selling and never once misrepresented myself, or the companies I was calling for. What exactly are you campaigning against?Recondite49 wrote: »Hi goz83,
I can't speak for every door to door sales firm but the one for which I worked did charitable donations and subscriptions to Sky or TalkTalk broadband. There was no disadvantage or advantage I could see either way in signing up on the doorstep versus online.
I also worked my first few weeks representing a charity, specifically, Concern. The idea of door to door sales is to encourage a customer who might otherwise never bother to donate, or buy a certain service, or product. And often, the customer might not even be aware that a certain service, product, charity exists. So, there is a place for door to door sales, because very often, people can't be bothered buying, or donating in the case of charity, unless someone is there to sign them up.Recondite49 wrote: »The charitable donations were a different story - for starters I was upset as it seems all the beautiful people had been singled out for this duty while the rest of us Morlocks were left to plug broadband.
I never experienced this. But I was a pretty fella
TBH, there were a few hideous looking folk selling it too, so looks were not important. I did find that on average, the women had an easier time selling though. Luckily, I had a boyish charm at the time and the middle aged women just ate me up when I called to the door....only joking. I genuinely loved the charity selling, but had more fun with other products and services.Recondite49 wrote: »Second the team leaders privately admitted to me that people would be far better off donating online or over the phone due to the commissions charged by doorstep collecting.
This is what people just don't understand. The charity has a marketing budget. They can spend it on tv adverts, signage, or sales people among other things. The average person donates for 30 months or so. So the marketing company, or rep gets paid a certain amount per sale, depending on the donation. I think a €10 per month donation paid about €40 for the sale, but only if the customer did not cancel within 6 months. So, now you can see why the charity is attracted to this type of deal, as it spends nothing. When they pay a basic, the rep might bring in no sales and the charity loses. Door to door sales and street sales can bring in a steady stream of donations for the charity. The marketing budget needs to be spent either way. So, even if you donate online infrequently, a portion of that donation will go to marketing.Recondite49 wrote: »Having said that it seems that people are more generally more likely to donate if someone is pestering them on the door step than if they receive a flyer in the mail.
Yes. But, I never bothered pestering people. If they seemed unhappy with me being there, I would tell them I would call back at a better time. Though most reps are not as considerate, or receptive to peoples moods. They are too caught up in the chase.Online will show all deals you can compare. Door to doors will only tell the good part of their deal and the bad part of your current deal. Why do you think they ask who are you with?
That's a very tarring blanket statement. Any rep with any brains will know to walk away if the customer has a better deal. I laugh at the ones who try to switch me from one provider to another provider with a poorer offer. PrePay power comes to mind, when the reps call and say "we give you the esb rates" but neglect to mention the higher daily charge and he likely 10-14% discount I am getting for having my gas and electric together and paid by direct debit. Some reps just don't know any better, as they are poorly trained.
They ask who you are with, so they know how to approach you. You might already be with the provider they are selling. Wouldn't that be a waste of breath?knarkypants wrote: »This is the exact one I have
It's waterproof and self adhesive. I haven't had any problems with it and it's been stuck on the outside of my front door since last September.
So, sales women are allowed to call? Sexist
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i would not tell a stranger who i am with as it is none of their business. if i want to change supplier or buy i will research it myself
That's your prerogative, but many people simply don't bother researching and so the cold caller can be a good thing.
I remember one ignoramus who came out to the door before I had even reached it and put his palm straight out in front of me and said "i don't want to hear it". I said nothing and left, continuing my rounds. Next day he crosses the road and said i could call over, because he heard what I was selling and wanted one for himself and his son.
At the time, I was working for Meteor, selling contract phones. The deals at that stage were excellent value compared to other networks and we were giving the best phones away for free, which were costing €100 on average on the same plans in the shops. Only Eircom customers were offered this. Selling this was extremely easy. I signed up almost every customer and had a per house ratio of 2.4 sales.
I looked at him and informed him that I had crossed his house off the list, so I couldn't possibly sign him up. I continued on my rounds, leaving him with a growling face and threats that I would get sacked. He did complain, but the regional sales manager saw it as I did. I loved that job
Never bothered with rude people. I was just doing a job and was always respectful to people. If they didn't want what I was promoting on the day, they only had to say so, once.
I have no problem letting a sales rep know what provider I am using. I only take issue if they try to pull the wool over my eyes. I found it very odd if someone didn't want to say what phone provider they were using. It just made it too difficult to compare rates and discuss potential savings, so again, I would just say thanks and go on my way. This method allowed me to get all the sales I needed and then some. I was rarely in bad form on the field and if I was, it was never the work that had me in bad form.0 -
That's your prerogative, but many people simply don't bother researching and so the cold caller can be a good thing.
I remember one ignoramus who came out to the door before I had even reached it and put his palm straight out in front of me and said "i don't want to hear it". I said nothing and left, continuing my rounds. Next day he crosses the road and said i could call over, because he heard what I was selling and wanted one for himself and his son.
At the time, I was working for Meteor, selling contract phones. The deals at that stage were excellent value compared to other networks and we were giving the best phones away for free, which were costing €100 on average on the same plans in the shops. Only Eircom customers were offered this. Selling this was extremely easy. I signed up almost every customer and had a per house ratio of 2.4 sales.
I looked at him and informed him that I had crossed his house off the list, so I couldn't possibly sign him up. I continued on my rounds, leaving him with a growling face and threats that I would get sacked. He did complain, but the regional sales manager saw it as I did. I loved that job
Never bothered with rude people. I was just doing a job and was always respectful to people. If they didn't want what I was promoting on the day, they only had to say so, once.
I have no problem letting a sales rep know what provider I am using. I only take issue if they try to pull the wool over my eyes. I found it very odd if someone didn't want to say what phone provider they were using. It just made it too difficult to compare rates and discuss potential savings, so again, I would just say thanks and go on my way. This method allowed me to get all the sales I needed and then some. I was rarely in bad form on the field and if I was, it was never the work that had me in bad form.
As mentioned above I help to manage a Facebook page for people who've been exploited by door to door sales companies.
Every now and then someone pops up claiming that they were offering a much better deal on the doorstep and that they would never ever ever become pushy or demanding.
What I can tell you is that is not the experience of the overwhelming majority of people to whom I've spoken - the products on offer are no different to those the customer can get themselves online and staff are trained to keep talking until the door is slammed in their face.
You mentioned you enjoyed the job very much, do you mind if I ask why you left?
I don't mind giving my own reasons - long hours for little or no pay, feeling uncomfortable with pushy sales tactics, having to register as self employed without being told the implications and humiliating rituals during training.0 -
Some people are just disrespectful. Ripping the stickers off doors was a scummy thing to be doing.
There are plenty of companies that offer a basic and some offer basic + commission. I worked for the commission only. And while I do see where you are coming from, I also believe that a lot can be learned by working for one of these companies. It's very tough and you can easily work a full week and make very little money. But, you can also earn lots and you don't have to mislead a single person to do it. Very often, he wrong people are doing the teaching and bad habits are passed onto new reps. I was very good at selling and never once misrepresented myself, or the companies I was calling for. What exactly are you campaigning against?
The people who are members of the group (it's called NAME AND SHAME CORPORATE RECRUITMENT SCAMS if anyone's interested), feel that the companies are actively misleading people who work for them.
I've already mentioned the fact that pay is often commission only - this is a big deal as it's possible then to work a full day without any wages, and we have a word for that!
Also younger jobseekers may be pressured into taking work without realising the consequences of registering as self employed i.e you are responsible for your own social security contributions, you aren't entitled to sick pay or maternity leave and if you're injured on the job it's your own problem and you receive nothing from your employer.
I did interview for a company based outside Dublin a while back who do offer a basic wage on top of salary which at least should mean you have an employment contract which I think is marginally better, however a quick Google showed that most people quit after a few days.
You might wonder why this is but a quick google of the company name or "door to door scams" is enough to be able to see why.
The fact remains that no matter how silver tongued a salesperson you are (or believe you are if my experiences are anything to go by), there are limits on to whom you can sell. In the case of broadband, the person in question has to have a fixed telephone line, everyone you speak to needs to have a current account capable of setting up direct debits (around 1 million adults in the UK don't have this for instance!).
As for learning useful skills, this is true in a manner of speaking. I remember one of my team leaders decided he'd take a colleague of mine and I under his wing as we were trotting around a housing estate.
One of the first doors on which we knocked was a middle aged lady who immediately told him that she wasn't interested, he simply tried to ignore what she said and kept on talking about the wonders of XYZ Broadband - in the end she lost patience and asked to see his ID badge so she could make a complaint about him to the central authority which ostensibly regulates door to door sellers.
An hour or two later this rather cocky lad (who may I add was 18 months younger than me - I was 24 at the time), joked to an elderly lady that we weren't the Mafia (we were dressed in suits you see... hilarious).
The old lady didn't understand very well and called the Police. The officer in question simply took our names and addresses and ran them through the system but I was less than impressed.
However it is true that a couple of years later I both got a job with an emphasis on sales and at immediately the same time started my own business. I enjoyed modest success with both precisely because I had seen everything this firm had done wrong, namely:
- I learned to take no for an answer. If someone made a clear statement they weren't interested, I simply left them be.
- Before launching into any kind of pitch I'd mention my customer's other options.
I know of course you claim you did the same but this directly contradicts the advice given by these firms. When I lived in a Dublin one of my housemates decided she needed to bring in some extra bread and went to work for one of these companies collecting donations for Amnesty International.
I had the privilege of reading her training manual and there were around five pages devoted to overcoming objections by people on the doorstep - interestingly nowhere does it say that if the customer tells you politely but firmly that they aren't interested should you simply move on.
My favourite "overcome" was when people said they would make a donation over the telephone or online, the seller would then point out that way they wouldn't get commission so it was better for the Irish economy(!) if they signed up on the doorstep - I mean seriously?
Firstly, I don't follow this logic as if you donate to a local charity, it's likely the money will stay in the country anyway. Second if you really had such a vested interest in the economy, the same effect could be achieved by putting a ten Euro bill in a homeless person's begging bowl. Gott in Himmel!
Of course when I mention my experiences most people who seem to have fallen for the rather cultish notion that the job has to do with marketing and not sales, and that they'll be managing their own office within 18 months of signing up tell me what you have said i.e it's the bad ones that spoil the reputation for the majority of ethical door to door sales firms.
Once again I refer you to Google - the internet is saturated with accounts of people who have been ripped off by these firms both from those who signed up on the door step and from former employees. Read and weep.This is what people just don't understand. The charity has a marketing budget. They can spend it on tv adverts, signage, or sales people among other things. The average person donates for 30 months or so. So the marketing company, or rep gets paid a certain amount per sale, depending on the donation. I think a €10 per month donation paid about €40 for the sale, but only if the customer did not cancel within 6 months. So, now you can see why the charity is attracted to this type of deal, as it spends nothing. When they pay a basic, the rep might bring in no sales and the charity loses. Door to door sales and street sales can bring in a steady stream of donations for the charity. The marketing budget needs to be spent either way. So, even if you donate online infrequently, a portion of that donation will go to marketing.
With respect, I find your reasoning rather circular.
For starters while charities have a marketing budget they also have targets for donations. If they meet those targets the marketing budget can go down accordingly - not that you can ever have too much money but it's not a zero sum game in the way that's implied here.
That's not to say that door to door collectors using high pressure sales tactics isn't a good way to bring in money - the question is if it's an effective way to raise more, reference this article in the Telegraph:
"According to the PFRA, for each new donor, charities will recover the cost of face-to-face recruitment in between 12 and 18 months.
But with half of all direct debits collected on the street being cancelled within a year, a charity will finally break even on the money it has paid to the fundraising company only after more than two years.
It is a long-term investment that costs big money and one on which, often, only the largest charities can afford to gamble."
So you can see that even if the person doesn't cancel within six months, but does do so after the year is out, then this is an ineffective marketing tactic - it does of course bring in a steady stream of money but only in the same way a Ponzi scheme does, your outlay is more than you get back in most cases.
The Financial Times also alludes to this when covering the demise of Dialogue, one of the larger street fund raising firms in Birmingham (where I'm from!)
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"Trainees were constantly reminded of the need to sign up donors for the long term. In most contracts with chugging agencies, charities lose money on anyone who drops out in the first year."
So not only are the tactics of these firms questionable, they are actually ineffective in the long term.0 -
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