former ICSA chief + animal cruelty

Dickie10

thought someone would have commented on this, Sunday Indo had it yesterday. shocking case. hard to believe people could do this to animals let alone a fellow farmer. im always shocked at the actions or unaction of these people relating to farm animal stockmanship. people like this shouldn't be allowed farm.

Nekarsulm

Was discussed a few days ago...... somewhere on here.

Cow Porter

hadn't heard, done a search for the thread title you made, then done a search on sunday indo, its a former ICSA chief Irish Cattle & Sheep Farmers Assoc.

shocking stuff alright, he is 74. and in my view people of this age while they may still hold a strong interest in animals etc are not able to do as they had done when they were more mobile - Although then again he may be a fitter man than myself.

whelan2

I am in no way standing up for the man, i dont know him but for animals to be left in that state i would have to question his mental state at the time. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/warning-graphic-content-former-farming-leader-jailed-for-appalling-animal-cruelty-30461761.html

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

I am in no way standing up for the man, i dont know him but for animals to be left in that state i would have to question his mental state at the time. http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/warning-graphic-content-former-farming-leader-jailed-for-appalling-animal-cruelty-30461761.html

It's nearly always the cause in those animal welfare cases, people find they can't cope and give up

onyerbikepat

Ya, that's the way I'd be thinking aswell. Unless you know better, I'd be slow to judge an old person like that.
The powers that be, need to step in quicker though, before the animal suffering gets out of hand.

tanko

You'd have to wonder what his neighbours were at. Surely they knew what was going on. An anonymous phone call to the department would have prevented a lot of suffering and cruelty.

whelan2

tanko wrote: »

You'd have to wonder what his neighbours were at. Surely they knew what was going on. An anonymous phone call to the department would have prevented a lot of suffering and cruelty.

spring 2013 was the toughest time ever on alot of farms . I lived from day to day and didnt care what my neighbours where at

Sheep breeder

This is not a one off problem, this has being going on for years on a regular basis. The level of cruelty has being serious for years and like a lot of lads that spend time on the road, the home fire is neglected. Seemly big numbers of horses involved.
The sad part is the dept of ag can not take away a herd number this can only be done by a judge, which is crazy.

bogman_bass

tanko wrote: »

You'd have to wonder what his neighbours were at. Surely they knew what was going on. An anonymous phone call to the department would have prevented a lot of suffering and cruelty.

I can tell you from experience that they are very slow to take stock away from people. We tried to get cattle taken from a neighbour for human welfare aswel as animal welfare reasons but the department were afraid to act dispite the fact that she clearly wasnt fit to keep them

Nekarsulm

Sheep breeder wrote: »

This is not a one off problem, this has being going on for years on a regular basis. The level of cruelty has being serious for years and like a lot of lads that spend time on the road, the home fire is neglected. Seemly big numbers of horses involved.
The sad part is the dept of ag can not take away a herd number this can only be done by a judge, which is crazy.

Dept. can suspend a herd number without a court order. It can be reactivated by writing in to your local DVO, but if they do not agree to this, you cannot buy in any mart nor do farm to farm transaction.

Of course you need to have no animals on the farm before they can do this!

whelan2

i know of a case where dept call to farm once a month every month to keep farmer on their toes, this farmer doesnt get a sfp so they can not penalise them that way. i wonder did anything happen to the wicklow farmers sfp?

moy83

rangler1 wrote: »

It's nearly always the cause in those animal welfare cases, people find they can't cope and give up

According to that though his three expensive race horses were still kept in top condition .
I find it very hard to accept any kind of excuse for that kind of neglect .

Kevin the sheep

Farmer over road from me was doing same farming practice for years cattle were in awful state for years and years so I started reporting him about five years ago and kept on reporting him anytime cattle were hungry I mean licking the ground now there is less stock and all his stock are in great nick I told him out straight I was reporting him and said I would stay doin it till it improved now I'm not a bizzy body just hate seen animals in a state like that

moy83

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Farmer over road from me was doing same farming practice for years cattle were in awful state for years and years so I started reporting him about five years ago and kept on reporting him anytime cattle were hungry I mean licking the ground now there is less stock and all his stock are in great nick I told him out straight I was reporting him and said I would stay doin it till it improved now I'm not a bizzy body just hate seen animals in a state like that

You're right , fair play for telling yer man straight about what you were doing aswell

Willfarman

It often relates back to a mans mental health I think. He was hoarding animals. And sometimes familiarity brings about a sort of blindness.
I feel bad for him to be honest.
Neighbours would be in an impossible position in a case like this.

_Brian

I'm aware of two such cases in the last 20 years in our area. In both cases it's sad to say that it was part if a mental disintegration for the farmer, one at the loss of his job and the other it seemed to be dementia, early onset.
Very sad and I'm thinking it only made the papers because of his former position.

Base price

I am not in any way condoning or justifying what happened on this man's farm but as Whelan said it was a bad spring for most farmers. In addition it could be possible that he did not own all the horses. People were straying/dumping unwanted horses into farmers lands last spring, especially around the Dublin counties.
I know of farmers in north county Dublin who had to lock road gates to try and keep people from straying horses onto their land, not only cattle farmers but tillage guys as well.

Sheep breeder

Have to disagree with you base price, this man had being buying these horses in numbers and letting them starve and other stock on the farm,
The true facts were the animals were starved and cruelly treated and he was found guilty in a court of law.

moy83

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Have to disagree with you base price, this man had being buying these horses in numbers and letting them starve and other stock on the farm,
The true facts were the animals were starved and cruelly treated and he was found guilty in a court of law.

Exactly , he got what he deserves

GrandSoftDay

There's something similar going on with a lad I know with 7 to 8 years now . The department have stepped in a bit now in that he can't buy in any more stock but only very recently. Everyone within a 20 mile radius knew what was going on and I can't fathom why it took so long to intervene and he's still at it to an extent. There are a serious amount of cattle unaccounted for that were never disposed of. I have good time for the individual as a person but it's not right. I think the department are a bit slow to take action in these cases to be honest and in this case they are still not doing enough.

moy83

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

There's something similar going on with a lad I know with 7 to 8 years now . The department have stepped in a bit now in that he can't buy in any more stock but only very recently. Everyone within a 20 mile radius knew what was going on and I can't fathom why it took so long to intervene and he's still at it to an extent. There are a serious amount of cattle unaccounted for that were never disposed of. I have good time for the individual as a person but it's not right. I think the department are a bit slow to take action in these cases to be honest and in this case they are still not doing enough.

I don't know why the dept dont act quicker , I'm sure complaints come in quickly about these twats .

GrandSoftDay

moy83 wrote: »

I don't know why the dept dont act quicker , I'm sure complaints come in quickly about these twats .

I don't would I call him a twat either, he's the most obliging fellow you could ever meet, has helped me on numerous occasions but won't even look at his own stock. It has to be a mental thing and I can understand why the department don't want to jump in with both feet incase they push someone over the edge but this has been dragging on with a long time and they have been well aware of it. I just think they should have stepped in a bit sooner.

Big Cheese

Animals....sick animals

moy83

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

I don't would I call him a twat either, he's the most obliging fellow you could ever meet, has helped me on numerous occasions but won't even look at his own stock. It has to be a mental thing and I can understand why the department don't want to jump in with both feet incase they push someone over the edge but this has been dragging on with a long time and they have been well aware of it. I just think they should have stepped in a bit sooner.

If having starving , sick and dead animals around the farm isn't enough to push someone over the edge then I wouldn't worry about them having the animals taken away and herd number stopped pushing them over the edge either .
I'm guessing the lad in the OP mustn't have been suffering mentally or he wouldn't have got a jail sentence .

mf240

But why would someone do that if there were not mentally unwell.

Seen a guy at that kind of thing near here on rented land, and he was as mad as a box of frogs.

moy83

mf240 wrote: »

But why would someone do that if there were not mentally unwell.

Seen a guy at that kind of thing near here on rented land, and he was as mad as a box of frogs.

Good question , even if they are mentally unwell I dont see that as an excuse for cruelty .Animals should be taken straight away off them .
I see it going on for years with a lad near us . The dept seemed to help him more than lay down the law . Eventually they took all his cattle away so he went buying ponies instead , after a few years of leaving them hungry they took the ponies away . Then they let him keep a small amount of bullocks ( only bullocks ) but recently again they had to go .
They seem to give way too many chances to lads that don't deserve them

whelan2

mf240 wrote: »

But why would someone do that if there were not mentally unwell.

Seen a guy at that kind of thing near here on rented land, and he was as mad as a box of frogs.

maybe he had been doing it for years and it had worked out ok, there was great growth the previous spring, spring 2013 was crap. I am not standing up for him but what worked one yesr mightnt have been as good the next year. Also some people are too proud to ask/look for help. The fact the guy in the op had some very well looked after racehorses also raises a few question as to why they where so well looked after at all the other animals expense.