Hand offs - why is Sean O'Brien so good at them?

Tim Robbins

Ok, so playing rugby a youngster you'd hand off and then they sort of go out of fashion and it's more about having two hands on the ball, controlling it contact etc. Also, if the tackler is going low enough he'll dodge your hand off so it's useless.

Sean O'Brien is one of the only players doing them regularly at pro level. How come he is so good at them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN75j0BiIX0

awec

Strong arms I guess that don't bend when another player runs in to them.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Ok, so playing rugby a youngster you'd hand off and then they sort of go out of fashion and it's more about having two hands on the ball, controlling it contact etc. Also, if the tackler is going low enough he'll dodge your hand off so it's useless.

Sean O'Brien is one of the only players doing them regularly at pro level. How come he is so good at them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN75j0BiIX0

Honestly its not really good at the hand off more good at judging when it is on. He will hand someone off when they arent really in position.

Neil3030

That man's hands and arms have been in some pretty disgusting places, I'd wager. Hand-offs must seem like a holiday to him.

Teferi

He always has great body position for all his highlight reel hand-offs and his opponents always have awful body position like Biggar in that clip above - aiming to tackle a monster like Sean so high was never going to end well for him. He's as strong as an ox and has worked on his positioning when going into contact so I'd agree with Ciaran that he knows when it's on. He also has great positioning when shouldering through players, he gets quite a low body position at full speed combined with strength again, he's a hard fella to take down - we've actually seen him being neutralised at the top level a small bit in the last 2 seasons, opponents tend to just aim for his ankles now which puts a stop to the massive runs.

Hagz

Morf

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Ok, so playing rugby a youngster you'd hand off and then they sort of go out of fashion and it's more about having two hands on the ball, controlling it contact etc. Also, if the tackler is going low enough he'll dodge your hand off so it's useless.

Sean O'Brien is one of the only players doing them regularly at pro level. How come he is so good at them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN75j0BiIX0

Check out Cory Jane. A better hand off from a less physically imposing player.

It's timing and footwork more than brute strength.

sydthebeat

I'd suggest a good fend at professional level is more of a result of terrible tackling position than anything specific in the runner. Going in too high, being too static and not being committed...

Utah_Saint

Morf wrote: »

Check out Cory Jane. A better hand off from a less physically imposing player.

It's timing and footwork more than brute strength.

Can't beat a good Cory Jane 'Hand Off'

.ak

Someone in training once told me if the person's chest is as high as yours, the hand off is a good bet. It means the person you're fending is generally too tall and off balance, especially if they're running towards you.

Rightwing

O Brien was helping the wexford hurlers out. Better stick to the rugby me ole friend.

Tim Robbins

.ak wrote: »

Someone in training once told me if the person's chest is as high as yours, the hand off is a good bet. It means the person you're fending is generally too tall and off balance, especially if they're running towards you.

Good tip. How do you find it?

.ak

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Good tip. How do you find it?

I weigh 70kg so... Useless!

Ha no in all seriousness it's worked for me the odd time I've tried it, but I generally go into contact using a dipped shoulder and wrap the ball. One if the best tips I got was if you cradle the ball with both arms tightly you can use it to 'bounce' a tackler. So long as your grip is good and you attack the tackler early enough it always works.

I rarely have the opportunity to fend, but I do find in j 4/5 level you can get away with it because too many guys go in high.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Good tip. How do you find it?

Thats what I was talking about when I said he only goes for it when its on, when the person has a higher centre of gravity is on one foot and usually when yhey are trying to turn

stephen_n

.ak wrote: »

I weigh 70kg so... Useless!

Ha no in all seriousness it's worked for me the odd time I've tried it, but I generally go into contact using a dipped shoulder and wrap the ball. One if the best tips I got was if you cradle the ball with both arms tightly you can use it to 'bounce' a tackler. So long as your grip is good and you attack the tackler early enough it always works.

I rarely have the opportunity to fend, but I do find in j 4/5 level you can get away with it because too many guys go in high.

I's not about size or brute force, a good hand off can come as part of a step, where you use the tacklers momentum to propel you away from them, if their body positions to high, they can't do anything about it. Requires very precise timing and focus, which leaves you exposed to getting hit by someone else though.

pickarooney

Yeah, Lomu was a demon for the timing and focus.

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

I'd suggest a good fend at professional level is more of a result of terrible tackling position than anything specific in the runner. Going in too high, being too static and not being committed...

That's true, though not always the case. I find the easiest handoffs come when someone commits too early, just so easy to push the top of their head down. They're nowhere near as spectacular as putting someone on his arse though!

GiftofGab

Remember a few years ago O'Gara had a great hand off to a Scottish Prop to score a try - think it was Ross Ford. Perfect timing along with a terrible body position by the tackler.

Also remember, Zebo making a try saving tackle for Ireland. Can't remember who it was against but the attacker tried to hand off too early. Zebo just slapped his hand out of the way and tackled the attacker. Bad timing by attacker but great play by Zebo.

stephen_n

pickarooney wrote: »

Yeah, Lomu was a demon for the timing and focus.

He was very focused at running over players!

Tim Robbins

O'Brien sometimes ducks a bit and then hands off. It is as if he knows the exact part of their body to hit them at, at the right time with a lot of force.

Tim Robbins

Here is a good clip of him being tackled by Leigh Halfpenny. If you pause it at just a second, just at contact, you can see he has his right knee quite high up and his right should quite low, so that his right elbow is almost touching his right knee. This is right at the tackle point so it is hard for Halfpenny to wrap his arms around him.

So he is not handing off,here, but adopting a stance very quickly that makes him hard to tackle because his body shape makes it much harder to get a grip.

When you combine that with the speed O'Brien is running at, if Halfpenny isn't really strong he is going to get absolutely creamed.

CatFromHue

I think there's alot in it.

Technique and the enthusiasm of the tackler to actually stop him.

In that clip Biggar doesn't look too keen to actually tackle him and is kinda going for the ball, he's way too high anyway. When some one is so upright and you get under them there's not much they can do.

CatFromHue

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Here is a good clip of him being tackled by Leigh Halfpenny. If you pause it at just a second, just at contact, you can see he has his right knee quite high up and his right should quite low, so that his right elbow is almost touching his right knee. This is right at the tackle point so it is hard for Halfpenny to wrap his arms around him.

So he is not handing off,here, but adopting a stance very quickly that makes him hard to tackle because his body shape makes it much harder to get a grip.

When you combine that with the speed O'Brien is running at, if Halfpenny isn't really strong he is going to get absolutely creamed.

If you ask me Halfpenny wins that collision not SOB.

SOB is stopped, brought down, and ends up giving away a penalty.

stephen_n

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Here is a good clip of him being tackled by Leigh Halfpenny. If you pause it at just a second, just at contact, you can see he has his right knee quite high up and his right should quite low, so that his right elbow is almost touching his right knee. This is right at the tackle point so it is hard for Halfpenny to wrap his arms around him.

So he is not handing off,here, but adopting a stance very quickly that makes him hard to tackle because his body shape makes it much harder to get a grip.

When you combine that with the speed O'Brien is running at, if Halfpenny isn't really strong he is going to get absolutely creamed.

That's a pretty standard way to take on a tackler who is already set, you'd see that replicated a lot, it's maybe more noticeable when there's a big size difference though.

Tim Robbins

CatFromHue wrote: »

If you ask me Halfpenny wins that collision not SOB.

SOB is stopped, brought down, and ends up giving away a penalty.

Yeah you're right. But exceptional stuff from Leigh.

Tim Robbins

stephen_n wrote: »

That's a pretty standard way to take on a tackler who is already set, you'd see that replicated a lot, it's maybe more noticeable when there's a big size difference though.

But ball carrier usually slow down a good bit before the hit - yeah / no?

CatFromHue

You could say that was SOB's fault in the clip with Halfpenny, he didn't slow down so Halfpenny was able to make contact with his legs and stop him. If he'd blown Halfpenny out of the way with his upper body he'd have been able to keep running.

stephen_n

Tim Robbins wrote: »

But ball carrier usually slow down a good bit before the hit - yeah / no?

I suppose technique varies, most would slow down, to explode into the contact, you'd be more balanced that way to, as CFH said his technique was poor there allowing HP to take him down.

Tox56

CatFromHue wrote: »

You could say that was SOB's fault in the clip with Halfpenny, he didn't slow down so Halfpenny was able to make contact with his legs and stop him. If he'd blown Halfpenny out of the way with his upper body he'd have been able to keep running.

Yeah I don't think that clip showcases the best of SOB at all, there was little to no technique involved he just got a rush of blood and tried to use his speed and power to blow 1/2p away, and it actually made him easier to take down if anything.

He's ridiculously powerful and that's ultimately what separates him from the rest but at the same time his technique in the tackle is usually very good and very clever, he's great at using angles and leverage

Tim Robbins

Tox56 wrote: »

Yeah I don't think that clip showcases the best of SOB at all, there was little to no technique involved he just got a rush of blood and tried to use his speed and power to blow 1/2p away, and it actually made him easier to take down if anything.

He's ridiculously powerful and that's ultimately what separates him from the rest but at the same time his technique in the tackle is usually very good and very clever, he's great at using angles and leverage

Interesting thoughts, I remember at the time I thought 1/2p was really brave and did amazingly well there.

Have a look at this clip at 1:09. Picture attached as well. Same kind of thing. Dropping the shoulder and this time he breaks tackle. He is leaning so far forward at contact it is hard to get a grip on him.

I think this is more about power, it is about technique and timing.

Thoughts...