Sequels that are better than the originals

ElvisChrist6

I was just thinking about this, and I don't know too many, but I'm sure you all know some. Of course there'll be the Final Fantasy games I'm sure, but I don't play them, I dunno. As well, probably Ultima IV. But the ones that really strike me are:

Lost Vikings 2: Sequel to Lost Vikings, both puzzle games in which you control three vikings with very different abilities; Eric can run and jump, Baleog can shoot arrows and use a sword, Olaf has a shield and can also use it to float. LV2 was just more interesting, story-wise if you're into that, and puzzle-wise, introducing different playable characters to certain levels and new abilities - Olaf could use a well timed fart to propel him during a glide, or use it to smash something under him; you also could control a flying dragon, which is always a plus. Visually it was similar, but had a deeper feel to the level design. The music wasn't as good, but oh well.

Skullmonkeys: This one, I feel slightly bad listing as it is a complete change from its predecessor, The Neverhood, which was a point-and-click PC game. Skullmonkeys, however, is a platformer on the PS1. Everything about it was so new for a game when I first played it in 1998 - it was genuinely hilarious, not just quirky dialogue, the soundtrack is the only game soundtrack I listen to independently of the game, and visually it is so lovely. It actually looks and feels claymation. There are so many little oddities in the game, including a bonus level you play with an afro if you collect all the "1970's" symbols, making it so easy to play again and again. The face buttons are all standard platforming buttons, while the shoulder buttons hold the powerups and specials, which you don't even use that often, but come in very useful. Everything has a use. Extremely difficult, somewhat frustrating at times, but fantastic to play.

Ghoul Patrol: Sequel to Zombies! (or Zombies! Ate My Neighbours in the USA). A lot of people would completely disagree, but I enjoyed Ghoul Patrol far more than Zombies!, though I haven't played THAT much of either. I think this for me was purely down to the level design rather than anything else; I just liked the levels more in GP than Zombies.

There are plenty more of course, some obvious ones that many would list, but others would argue of course (Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, Castlevania III and IV, Super Metroid, Resident Evil 4, A Link to the Past... I like Nintendo if you can't tell), but talking about those would be flogging a dead horse.

Myrddin

Super Empire Strikes Back was much better than Super Star Wars.

Donatron

..... Street Fighter 2! :O

ElvisChrist6

Myrddin wrote: »

Super Empire Strikes Back was much better than Super Star Wars.

I was actually thinking of throwing that in, but while it's better, Super Star Wars was my favourite game growing up, so I'll always enjoy that one more!

Donatron wrote: »

..... Street Fighter 2! :O

Never got to play the original arcade machine, but it'd be a tough job beating that game in terms of fighting games.

The Last Bandit

Half Life 2 & Mass Effect 2 both superior to the originals.

Mr.Saturn

Donatron wrote: »

..... Street Fighter 2! :O

A given, considering SFII's impact, but there's also the fact that original was always pretty pants. I ran through it on the Capcom Classics Collection 2 (PS2), thinking something was lost in the emulation, but my brother, having played both the six button and big button versions way back whenever, confirmed it was always a slow, imprecise bit of software.

Got a couple of votes. Donkey Kong Country Returns (Wii) riffs off its predecessor's stock as B-grade platformers to offer something top-shelf for anyone willing to see its challenge through to the end.

Pokemon from Gen 3 onward lifted the franchise from broken, buggy (Red, Blue and Yellow) and unfinished (Gold, Silver and Crystal) efforts that rode the waves of novelty to something just ridiculous in its depth.

johnny_ultimate

I would almost say the sequels that aren't superior or at least worthwhile are something of an exception to the rule. Given that you can build on mechanics and technology, sequels in gaming tend to be a far more positive experience than in films (where you have to completely rely on pesky factors like satisfying narrative and characters ). Even when there's a debate over whether the first or second or third or whatever game is best, the fact there's a debate at all suggests a whole lot of gaming sequels do something right! Definitely there's few reasons why a sequel or two can't improve a lot of ideas that maybe weren't possible first time around.

It's when a game series expands into serious franchise territory that things get really blurry, messy and subjective.

Extreme personal examples: I'd consider Mass Effect 2 a definitive improvement over its predecessor in pretty much every way, although I know that's hotly contested a lot of the time. I've only ever played bits and pieces of Tony Hawks 1, but it hasn't a patch on the second and third games. And - another controversial one - Half Life 2 IMO is the holy grail of sequels, a truly expansive and exhilarating revisit to a world (not to dismiss the first game's still high quality!)

Ron DMC

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2. Probably the best in the series in my opinion.

Dr Bob

off the top of my head
..last ninja 2 was a massive improvement over the first game *better story and it didnt have the ridiculous 'jump and land on this pixel sized rock or dieee' elements the first had.
System shock was decent , but nothing compares to the perfection and glory that was System shock 2..

Andrew76

A few that spring to mind:

Speedball 2 > Speedball
Turrican 2 > Turrican.

Same goes for Super Mario Bros, most of the sequels improved on predecessors in some way. But as johnny_u mentions, you'd expect that for a variety of reasons.

Arthur Beesley

Monkey Island 2
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
Kick Off 2
SWOS (as sequel to Sensible Soccer)

Retr0gamer

Got to agree with JU. Most game sequels improve on the originals since they build on already established mechanics and the developers have taken on board feedback. It's not like film where sequels are usually inferior. There's no point listing them all, you'd be here forever.

ElvisChrist6

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Got to agree with JU. Most game sequels improve on the originals since they build on already established mechanics and the developers have taken on board feedback. It's not like film where sequels are usually inferior. There's no point listing them all, you'd be here forever.

The point wasn't to list them all, just some that you would honestly skip the first game in favour of the second or third if you had to choose one, really. If you look at the first reply by Myrddin, that's a game with very similar mechanics to its predecessor, yet something makes it superior, whereas the sequel to that (Super Return of the Jedi) wasn't quite as good. Very similar style and gameplay, but just something that makes it better! That's why I mentioned Lost Vikings and Ghoul Patrol mostly, as opposed to Spyro 3 or something! Couldn't help mention Skullmonkeys though, it's too good not to...

ElvisChrist6

Ron DMC wrote: »

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2. Probably the best in the series in my opinion.

I remember when I played that first game and was amazed, spent hours on it! Now, I can't actually remember which one was my favourite after that, but if it wasn't 2, it was 3! Got 4 on the PS2 and, though I played it a lot, it just wasn't up to the standards if I remember correctly.

Jack burton

Streets of Rage 2
Golden Axe 2

Mega man 2 aswell is one, even though the first is amazing the second is amazeballs!

Doge

Duke Nukem Forever...

Doge

...seriously though Duke Nukem 3D was a monumental upgrade to the first 2 side scroling games.

CiDeRmAn

waveform wrote: »

Duke Nukem Forever...

:eek:

waveform wrote: »

...seriously though Duke Nukem 3D was a monumental upgrade to the first 2 side scroling games.

Ah, a joke, was going to have to ban you on principle there.....

Best sequels for me
Wipeout 2097 and F1'97, both best in class and worth playing today.
Worst, I was never so disappointed as I was when I bought Need for Speed 2 on the PC and F1'98 on the PS, both dreadful games preceded by great ones.

Doctor DooM

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

A given, considering SFII's impact, but there's also the fact that original was always pretty pants. I ran through it on the Capcom Classics Collection 2 (PS2), thinking something was lost in the emulation, but my brother, having played both the six button and big button versions way back whenever, confirmed it was always a slow, imprecise bit of software.

One actual problem with playing SF1 is that the game has an insanely short input buffer, making it almost random if your specials come out or not. You're better off just fighting with normals in it.

On topic, some people argue Street Fighter 3: Third Strike is better than SF2. Those people are what's technically known as "wrong"

ElvisChrist6

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

:eek:



Ah, a joke, was going to have to ban you on principle there.....

Best sequels for me
Wipeout 2097 and F1'97, both best in class and worth playing today.
Worst, I was never so disappointed as I was when I bought Need for Speed 2 on the PC and F1'98 on the PS, both dreadful games preceded by great ones.

Speaking of racing games, one that they really didn't get right until the sequel was Project Gotham Racing... Awful game, the first one, really appalling!

CiDeRmAn

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

Speaking of racing games, one that they really didn't get right until the sequel was Project Gotham Racing... Awful game, the first one, really appalling!

?
Project Gotham was brilliant!
I'm shocked!
The whole series is a triumph tbh.
But, if looking for the best and a great contrast, play Metropolis Street Racer on the DC and PS34 on the 360, utterly brilliant games and only throws into sharp relief the hole left in the racing game scene since Bizarre folded.

ElvisChrist6

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

?
Project Gotham was brilliant!
I'm shocked!
The whole series is a triumph tbh.
But, if looking for the best and a great contrast, play Metropolis Street Racer on the DC and PS34 on the 360, utterly brilliant games and only throws into sharp relief the hole left in the racing game scene since Bizarre folded.

I really didn't enjoy it, but probably because my two favourite racing games are Mario Kart on the SNES and the DS one and Crash Team Racing on the Playstation! I prefer the mascot-y novelty racers. Also, Wreckin' Crew and Micro Machines I loved as a kid, haven't played either since though. There have been some realistic racers I loved, but never quite found them as easy to differentiate.

CiDeRmAn

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

I really didn't enjoy it, but probably because my two favourite racing games are Mario Kart on the SNES and the DS one and Crash Team Racing on the Playstation! I prefer the mascot-y novelty racers. Also, Wreckin' Crew and Micro Machines I loved as a kid, haven't played either since though. There have been some realistic racers I loved, but never quite found them as easy to differentiate.

Play Speed Freaks on the PS, also Roll Cage 2, you can thank me later.

Donatron

Spead Freaks was developed in Ireland I believe? There are a whole host of cart racers on the ps1, some good and some ..not so good. Crash Team Racing is the best I would say. Others are South Park Rally, Muppets Racemania, Bomberman Fantasy Race, Motor Toon

Relikk

Doctor DooM wrote: »

On topic, some people argue Street Fighter 3: Third Strike is better than SF2. Those people are what's technically known as "wrong"

Oh, it's definitely better than SF2. Whether or not it's better than SSF2X is another matter entirely.

phily2002

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Monkey Island 2
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
Kick Off 2
SWOS (as sequel to Sensible Soccer)

Man Monkey Island 1 is still my favorite from the series, though 2 is awesome as well. Mortal Kombat 2 was a great sequel, doom 2 as well.
Worst one I played in recent time has to be Dragon age 2...

ElvisChrist6

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Play Speed Freaks on the PS, also Roll Cage 2, you can thank me later.

I will look out for those! Never even heard of Roll Cage

Donatron wrote: »

Spead Freaks was developed in Ireland I believe? There are a whole host of cart racers on the ps1, some good and some ..not so good. Crash Team Racing is the best I would say. Others are South Park Rally, Muppets Racemania, Bomberman Fantasy Race, Motor Toon

CTR was definitely the best of the lot. Didn't Banjo-Kazooie have a racer or was it Diddy Kong?

Donatron

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

I will look out for those! Never even heard of Roll Cage



CTR was definitely the best of the lot. Didn't Banjo-Kazooie have a racer or was it Diddy Kong?

Yeah there was a Diddy Kong Racing on the n64. I hear it's supposed to be pretty good but I've never played it. I went from the snes to the ps1 back in the day so it was Super Mario Kart and CTR for me!

ElvisChrist6

Donatron wrote: »

Yeah there was a Diddy Kong Racing on the n64. I hear it's supposed to be pretty good but I've never played it. I went from the snes to the ps1 back in the day so it was Super Mario Kart and CTR for me!

Exact same with me actually, only played anything in between at someone else's - SNES to PS1, didn't know anything about games on other systems until years later and before that it was just the Amstrad CPC.

CiDeRmAn

ElvisChrist6 wrote: »

I will look out for those! Never even heard of Roll Cage



CTR was definitely the best of the lot. Didn't Banjo-Kazooie have a racer or was it Diddy Kong?

Rollcage and Rollcage 2 are, in a lot of ways, Wipeout on wheels.
But better.
The 2nd one has amazing levels, great weapons and it's very very fast.

speed Freaks was made by an Irish team, with the full backing of Sony, at least right up to the E3, when they found themselves getting a handful of monitors while the previously unannounced Crash Team Racing had the main stand area. Got shafted they did!

Retr0gamer

I played CTR recently, got it for 0.99cent in a US PSN sale. It's a kind of crap. The kart physics are really flaky, the framerate is appalling and the track design is really poor. It's a big rip off of Diddy Kong racing as well. Not sure why it gets so much attention these days, a few years ago it was widely regarded as a poor mans diddy kong/Mario kart. I'd even take the not so great Mario Kart 64 over it.

CiDeRmAn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I played CTR recently, got it for 0.99cent in a US PSN sale. It's a kind of crap. The kart physics are really flaky, the framerate is appalling and the track design is really poor. It's a big rip off of Diddy Kong racing as well. Not sure why it gets so much attention these days, a few years ago it was widely regarded as a poor mans diddy kong/Mario kart. I'd even take the not so great Mario Kart 64 over it.

Due to the formatting of my screen this is what my eye's saw first.
On behalf of the episode of Monty Python playing in my head, I would like to apologise....