Saorview and Trees

cojobt

Hi,

Our Saorview reception is unreliable at best. It seems to be affected by dry weather, stormy weather, rain, birds flapping their wings nearby...

The one environmental factor we can control are the trees around the house. The aerial is aimed through tree-tops to our nearest mast. Is it likely that the trees affect reception? This was never a problem in the old analogue days when we would receive both RTE and the UK channels on the same aerial, from the Moville and Limavady masts.

I live in East Inishowen. The UHF grid aerial is aimed at the Moville mast. We no longer pick up anything from the Limavady mast, although the map suggests we are within coverage.

winston_1

cojobt wrote: »

Hi,

Our Saorview reception is unreliable at best. It seems to be affected by dry weather, stormy weather, rain, birds flapping their wings nearby...

The one environmental factor we can control are the trees around the house. The aerial is aimed through tree-tops to our nearest mast. Is it likely that the trees affect reception? This was never a problem in the old analogue days when we would receive both RTE and the UK channels on the same aerial, from the Moville and Limavady masts.

I live in East Inishowen. The UHF grid aerial is aimed at the Moville mast. We no longer pick up anything from the Limavady mast, although the map suggests we are within coverage.

Trees affect reception, especially UHF, which is probably why the analogue VHF was not affected. Summer will be worst because of the leaf growth. Wet leaves are worse still.

cojobt

It's so simple when you put it like that.

Can't wait for the day when the benefits of Saorview outweigh the disadvantages. No sign of that day yet though.

marno21

winston_1 wrote: »

Trees affect reception, especially UHF, which is probably why the analogue VHF was not affected. Summer will be worst because of the leaf growth. Wet leaves are worse still.

Moville had been a UHF only site for analogue television beginning ~1998.

TAFKAlawhec

cojobt wrote: »

It's so simple when you put it like that.

Can't wait for the day when the benefits of Saorview outweigh the disadvantages. No sign of that day yet though.

For the vast majority of people, the benefits of Saorview most certainly outweigh any disadvantage. People who had weak, snowy and/or ghosting analogue pictures can now get RTÉ 1 & 2 in HD, clear TV3 (which wasn't carried from Moville) and a few other additional channels with one UHF aerial. Many people I've helped set up receiving Saorview transmissions for that previously only got scratchy analogue pictures have been delighted with the results.

Trees are an absolute lottery when it comes to UHF reception as they can cause havoc if they are in the path between transmitter and receiver aerials, and reception can change depending on the time of year or even the weather present, not to mention the type of trees in the way. No serious aerial installer will attempt reception through trees unless there is no other option. If reception was possible before, it may also suggest that the receiving aerial was previously able to look over the top of the trees or was able to look through a gap below the tree line that had line-of-sight to the transmitter - however eventual tree growth may now mean that in the former case with the tree line now having risen it now blocks reception, and in the latter, branch growth have now plugged these former gaps. In terms of what can be done about it, in the case of the former you could lop the tops off the trees, raise the height of the aerial (both of which might only last as a solution in the short term as trees will still grow) or position the aerial elsewhere on the property which might have better reception. For the latter, you could try cutting the branches back (again this may have to be repeated as the trees grow) to open the gap again, or find a different position for the aerial. You might also be able to receive Saorview and/or Freeview from an alternative transmitter but this may require a two-aerial set up.

There is a leaflet available below in PDF format that was published by BBC Engineering back in the late 90's about TV reception through trees. Although some of the info is about analogue reception and therefore redundant, it does explain some of the problems that trees cause.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~skellern/download/tv_reception.pdf

marno21 wrote: »

Moville had been a UHF only site for analogue television beginning ~1998.

Both Moville & Letterkenny were still on VHF Band III for RTÉ One (H) and RTÉ Two (J) up until some time around 2000 IIRC. Channel J had to be turned off from both sites before the Score Digital (Now Bauer NI) DAB multiplex could launch on channel 12D across Northern Ireland.

Were it not for DAB, I'd say that Moville at least would likely have stayed on having VHF transmissions like Monaghan did right up until analogue switch off, as it was able to cover some parts of counties Derry and Antrim that UHF from the same site wasn't able to reach.

cojobt

I might first try to reposition the aerial to pick up from Malin, as there is no reception of UK channels in the current position (unless of course that is to do with the trees too but I think it's more likely to do with distance from the transmitter) and chopping down all those trees won't be fun.

cojobt

So on that point, any tips on positioning a UHF grid aerial without any specialist equipment, except perhaps an iPhone? From what I can tell on the map the Malin transmitter is 180 degrees from current position.

whitebriar

One bit of advice I would give is to switch off the function on your tv that automatically finds new channels as that will cause your tv to switch between transmitters at times and you may unbeknownst to yourself end up on a long term weaker signal that was briefly stronger due to weather conditions than your own.
Do that,and then tune in what should be the strongest signal before you go chopping down trees!

byte

Does your aerial have a masthead amplifier? May not necessarily be the trees.

cojobt

Ok...I'm not sure the TV has the function to switch between transmitters. There are only two locally, both roughly the same distance from my aerial. However I will check that out.

Now an amplifier - I asked in a local shop about that and was informed that there are no amplifiers for Saorview. Is this incorrect?

Digifriendly

cojobt wrote: »

Ok...I'm not sure the TV has the function to switch between transmitters. There are only two locally, both roughly the same distance from my aerial. However I will check that out.

Now an amplifier - I asked in a local shop about that and was informed that there are no amplifiers for Saorview. Is this incorrect?

Here in N.Ireland most viewers of RTE/Saorview have masthead amplifiers.

The Cush

cojobt wrote: »

Now an amplifier - I asked in a local shop about that and was informed that there are no amplifiers for Saorview. Is this incorrect?

Any UHF amplifier will work with Saorview (examples).

Have you thought about upgrading to a hi-gain Group B aerial for Moville (example)

byte

I find those Blake DMX aerials very good. Would rather them over the likes of a Triax UNIX52

cojobt

The Cush, that looks like the aerial we used to have. I think it got damaged in a storm, and so a grid one was installed. Maybe that's when all the trouble began!

cojobt

So it turns out, after a visit from Anthony Thompson of Thompsons Price-Less Aerial & Satellite, Moville, that we always had an amplifier, and that said amplifier, which was thirty years old, was completely burnt out. Anthony replaced the amplifier and the signal returned to full strength. No need to change any aerials or fell any trees.