Bells on cats

pwurple

Hi guys, I'm sure most of the cat owners here already do this, but just to remind anyone who doesn't... Can you put a bell on your cats please? I know it is in the cats nature to kill birds, but the native wildlife really isn't able for pets.

Third dead songthrush in my garden this month, saw a cat clobber it as the bird was picking up snails.

ABajaninCork

Personally, I didn't put collars (pretty velvet ones with bells) on my cats. I used to, and tried to make the collar loose enough for them to slip it if needed. Until one day, my neighour told me that one of my cats got caught up in her collar. He tried to free her, but she spooked and made off. Came home from work that evening to find the poor thing on the step with the collar caught up in her shoulder.

So - after that? Collars came off, and never went back on. I'd NEVER put a collar on a cat again.

It's a horrible sight (My tom used to bring 'presents'), but frankly speaking, there is little you can do.

pwurple

How about bibs? Catbibs are supposed to be good as well.

Really disappointing to make big efforts with avoiding pesticides and making the garden as clean and healthy a place for wildlife in the city as I can, and then seeing the native creatures killed by pets which have such an unnatural advantage.

People have suggested keeping a watergun nearby and squirting the cats when I see them as a deterent, but I don't think that would work? Would it? Are cats trainable?

Plus, I don't mind the cats walking on through, exploring or whatever. Just don't want them taking out nests of baby birds, or killing the adults.

ABajaninCork

A water gun would work just fine. I've never used cat bibs, so can't comment.

inocybe

They don't work.

Zapperzy

A water pistol would work. Those catbibs look like an awful contraption and a bit dangerous tbh.

There's two types of quick release cat collars, one has elastic that's supposed to stretch if the cat gets caught and the other has a sort of snap buckle that comes apart when you pull it apart. Personally I don't really like the elastic kind, I think the buckle kind are safer. I wouldn't put them on light kittens as they mightn't have the weight needed to pull them open but an adults weight will easily snap them open. Bit annoying if they constantly come home without a collar but it's a solution to the collar/bell issue.

Pumpkinseeds

I've tried a few different types of quick release collar on our cats and have had too many incidents with paws getting stuck in the collar. We don't have collars on our cats but they are all microchipped. Personally I don't believe in putting a bell on a cat. It must drive them mad having a bell rattling around on them constantly.

We feed the local birds all year round and we also leave fresh water out for wildlife. 1 of my cats kills birds from time to time, I don't like it at all but cats are preditors and killing is what they are designed to do. I don't mean to sound cruel or dismissive, I know that you have good intentions. That being said, mankind does far more damage to wildlife through things like pesticides, intensive farming, pollution and the amount of countryside that has been destroyed to build housing on.

rannerap

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Personally, I didn't put collars (pretty velvet ones with bells) on my cats. I used to, and tried to make the collar loose enough for them to slip it if needed. Until one day, my neighour told me that one of my cats got caught up in her collar. He tried to free her, but she spooked and made off. Came home from work that evening to find the poor thing on the step with the collar caught up in her shoulder

So - after that? Collars came off, and never went back on. I'd NEVER put a collar on a cat again.

It's a horrible sight (My tom used to bring 'presents'), but frankly speaking, there is little you can do.

You can get safety collars that pop open easily to prevent things like that happening. I only use them on my two

Capercaille

Sarannewrap wrote: »

You can get safety collars that pop open easily to prevent things like that happening. I only use them on my two

My fellow has a quick release collar on my fellow as well. He loses it every couple of months. I put extra bells on it. Generally one bell is not loud enough. These are the extra bells which I use:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Collar-Safety-Chrome-Buckle-Shopmonk/dp/B00I089V7M/ref=sr_1_3/277-9895066-6126353?ie=UTF8&qid=1406479042&sr=8-3&keywords=bells+for+cats

Capercaille

inocybe wrote: »

They don't work.

Bells on Collars reduce the amount of kills. Has been proven in research.

pwurple wrote: »

Third dead songthrush in my garden this month, saw a cat clobber it as the bird was picking up snails.

Juvenile Blackbird. The cat is probably targeting the entire family of young Blackbirds.

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I've tried a few different types of quick release collar on our cats and have had too many incidents with paws getting stuck in the collar. We don't have collars on our cats but they are all microchipped. Personally I don't believe in putting a bell on a cat. It must drive them mad having a bell rattling around on them constantly.
.

My fellow has 3 bells on his collar. two of them large. It bothered him for half an hour and now he doesn't even notice them.

Pumpkinseeds

Capercaille wrote: »

Bells on Collars reduce the amount of kills. Has been proven in research.


Juvenile Blackbird. The cat is probably targeting the entire family of young Blackbirds.


My fellow has 3 bells on his collar. two of them large. It bothered him for half an hour and now he doesn't even notice them.

3 bells:eek: That's a Hell of an assumption that the cat is 'targeting the entire family of young Blackbirds'. A fairly outrageous comment to make and the kind of remark that encourages people to harm cats.

monflat

I know of a neighbour s cat who hung himself. By his collar.
Of course by accident but still the risk is there.

Capercaille

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

3 bells:eek: That's a Hell of an assumption that the cat is 'targeting the entire family of young Blackbirds'. A fairly outrageous comment to make and the kind of remark that encourages people to harm cats.

I didn't have a collar on my cat till he was 2 years old. He had a regular collar and it got caught in his mouth on three different occasions. I found out about the quick release collars and he has had them on every since then without any trouble. When he was around 2 (without collar/bells) he systematically caught a entire clutch of Robins. The robins has their territory in the Garden. He was never let out again without a collar with several bells. Cats are ruthless predators make no mistake about it.

pwurple

The young blackbirds I thought had yellow beaks? You're probably right, I'm no bird expert, just know we have a good few nests and a fair amount of bird corpses, and that's just one city garden.

I know it's in the cats nature to kill, I don't hold it against the cats at all, but they are a foreign species with a huge advantage over the native species. If a cat is killing a bird a day, or even one a week, that's hundreds over their lifetime. Just something to reduce it a small bit might be considered. especially as there are not many people left who have any interest in gardening or creating habitats for them (beyond a lawn).

Shame to make the effort creating the environment where the birds are happy and safe to eat the snails etc, and then ending up having to resort to slug pellets because the bird population has dropped and the cabbages are getting savaged.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the problem if the cat's paw gets caught in a collar once in a blue moon? Just release it, no? It's an inconvenience I'm sure, but if it saves hundreds of birds...

I'll get a watergun, for the few weeks I've left on mat leave. Hopefully it will work during that time at least.

Pumpkinseeds

Capercaille wrote: »

I didn't have a collar on my cat till he was 2 years old. He had a regular collar and it got caught in his mouth on three different occasions. I found out about the quick release collars and he has had them on every since then without any trouble. When he was around 2 (without collar/bells) he systematically caught a entire clutch of Robins. The robins has their territory in the Garden. He was never let out again without a collar with several bells. Cats are ruthless predators make no mistake about it.

I have 4 cats, 1 of which is a former feral, so I'm familliar with cat behaviour. I've never used any other form of collar but a quick release safety collar. No collar is 100% safe. We watched one of our cats get his paw jammed in the collar while he was on our bed washing himself, it didn't release and I dread to think what would have happened if we hadn't been there to take the collar off.

The fact that your cat killed some robins doesn't mean that every cat will kill every bird it comes into contact with. I appreciate that you don't want your cat killing wildlife so you keep it in, but I don't appreciate wild statements that cats kill every bird they come into contact with, it's just hysteria. My other 3 cats have no interest in killing anything, except toys.

Pumpkinseeds

pwurple wrote: »

The young blackbirds I thought had yellow beaks? You're probably right, I'm no bird expert, just know we have a good few nests and a fair amount of bird corpses, and that's just one city garden.

I know it's in the cats nature to kill, I don't hold it against the cats at all, but they are a foreign species with a huge advantage over the native species. If a cat is killing a bird a day, or even one a week, that's hundreds over their lifetime. Just something to reduce it a small bit might be considered. especially as there are not many people left who have any interest in gardening or creating habitats for them (beyond a lawn).

Shame to make the effort creating the environment where the birds are happy and safe to eat the snails etc, and then ending up having to resort to slug pellets because the bird population has dropped and the cabbages are getting savaged.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the problem if the cat's paw gets caught in a collar once in a blue moon? Just release it, no? It's an inconvenience I'm sure, but if it saves hundreds of birds...

I'll get a watergun, for the few weeks I've left on mat leave. Hopefully it will work during that time at least.

A cat can seriously damage itself by catching a paw in a collar. What cats do you imagine are killing a bird a day? Also, there's no shortage of birds in Ireland, so I won't get too upset about some getting killed by cats. If you want to make a realistic difference don't blame cats, instead do something that's actually productive like campaign against intensive farming, the use of pesticides or maybe the encroachment of towns into the countryside that is destroying habitats.

boomerang

pwurple wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the problem if the cat's paw gets caught in a collar once in a blue moon? Just release it, no?

Because most people allow their cat out without supervision, so it can happen out of the owner's sight.

pwurple

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Also, there's no shortage of birds in Ireland, so I won't get too upset about some getting killed by cats.

!!! :eek:

Wow, thought this was a animal lovers forum. That's a bit harsh.

Capercaille

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I have 4 cats, 1 of which is a former feral, so I'm familliar with cat behaviour. I've never used any other form of collar but a quick release safety collar. No collar is 100% safe. We watched one of our cats get his paw jammed in the collar while he was on our bed washing himself, it didn't release and I dread to think what would have happened if we hadn't been there to take the collar off.

.

I've never had a problem with the quick release collars. I'm sure some brands would be of better quality than others. I understand that seeing you pet with a collar stuck in it's mouth is a bad experience. It happened my own fellow ( with the conventional collars).

The fact that your cat killed some robins doesn't mean that every cat will kill every bird it comes into contact with. I appreciate that you don't want your cat killing wildlife so you keep it in, but I don't appreciate wild statements that cats kill every bird they come into contact with, it's just hysteria. My other 3 cats have no interest in killing anything, except toys.

Cats are predators. It's in their nature to hunt, cats that would not hunt if given the oppurtunity would be in the miniority. In the UK cats catch up to 55 million birds per year.

Capercaille

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Also, there's no shortage of birds in Ireland, so I won't get too upset about some getting killed by cats. If you want to make a realistic difference don't blame cats, instead do something that's actually productive like campaign against intensive farming, the use of pesticides or maybe the encroachment of towns into the countryside that is destroying habitats.

Birds like Corncrake are on the verge of extinction in Ireland. There are numerous species in danger of extinction in Ireland.

Teyla Emmagan

I don't believe in putting bells on cats. They are predators, it's in their nature to hunt. Putting a stupid noisy bell around their neck just draws attention to them as well, which I don't like. My cat has no collar either, the buckle ones are dangerous and he loses a quick release one inside half an hour. So out he goes, and sadly does bring back his kill at times. But they are only following their instinct and I don't think they should be denied that. The birds will have to take their chances.

Capercaille

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I don't believe in putting bells on cats. They are predators, it's in their nature to hunt. Putting a stupid noisy bell around their neck just draws attention to them as well, which I don't like. My cat has no collar either, the buckle ones are dangerous and he loses a quick release one inside half an hour. So out he goes, and sadly does bring back his kill at times. But they are only following their instinct and I don't think they should be denied that. The birds will have to take their chances.

Cats are not native predators. The "stupid noisy bell" stops them killing or at worst decreases their kills. If you cats are killing birds you should not let them out.

Joeseph Balls

pwurple wrote: »

!!! :eek:

Wow, thought this was a animal lovers forum. That's a bit harsh.

Its a pet lovers forum.

ABajaninCork

Capercaille wrote: »

Cats are not native predators. The "stupid noisy bell" stops them killing or at worst decreases their cats. If you cats are killing birds you should not let them out.

Really? *shakes head*

new old poster

most my childhood was spent looking after sick birds my cat got I often wondered why my mother just did not buy a bell

Teyla Emmagan

Capercaille wrote: »

Cats are not native predators. The "stupid noisy bell" stops them killing or at worst decreases their cats. If you cats are killing birds you should not let them out.

Native predators? Cats have been in Ireland as long as birds have, and mine will come and go as he pleases. Thanks.

DBB

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Native predators? Cats have been in Ireland as long as birds have

I don't know if I have ever had such a jaw-dropping moment, when reading anything on this forum, as when I read this.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but jesus swept, any justification you can come up with means nowt when you come out with utter nonsense like this!
I genuinely don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Teyla Emmagan

DBB wrote: »

I don't know if I have ever had such a jaw-dropping moment, when reading anything on this forum, as when I read this.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but jesus swept, any justification you can come up with means nowt when you come out with utter nonsense like this!
I genuinely don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Why? Seriously. Surely we've had cats in Ireland for thousands of years?

Phil_Lives

Nope. cats came to england with the romans or phonecians about 2k years ago. as romans couldn't be bothered to visit Ireland they came to Ireland later. Birds fly so they brought themselves.
Cats are not native.

irish_goat

Bit of reading.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

pwurple

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Why? Seriously. Surely we've had cats in Ireland for thousands of years?

First record of cats in the UK was 936.

They are effectively an exotic species here.

new old poster

and birds for millions

Teyla Emmagan

Phil_Lives wrote: »

Nope. cats came to england with the romans or phonecians about 2k years ago. as romans couldn't be bothered to visit Ireland they came to Ireland later. Birds fly so they brought themselves.
Cats are not native.

I didn't think they evolved here, but around 2k years is about what I had in mind alright. How long do you have to be around to be considered a native species anyway? Birds aren't native either then by what you are saying. Bit irrelevant then what our native predators are then so..

In any case, no bells.

DBB

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Why? Seriously. Surely we've had cats in Ireland for thousands of years?

Cats are not native to Ireland, and there has never been a cat native to this land (though there may have been hyenas about many thousands of years ago).
All cats in Ireland are domesticated pets, or feral but derived exclusively from domesticated pets. Although cats may have first been domesticated 10,000 years ago in the middle east or thereabouts, I'd say it's unlikely that they reached Irish shores until very recently, perhaps at some stage within the past thousand years? Probably less.
Natural behaviour it may be for a cat to kill birds, but when such a non-native predator is introduced particularly to an island nation, it often spells disaster for at least some of the native species. I'm afraid I for one cannot ever accept the justification used by some cat owners that it's okay for their cats to have free rein on our wildlife because "it's natural".
No, it's not.
Justify it some other way, just don't use this baseless excuse.

Capercaille

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Why? Seriously. Surely we've had cats in Ireland for thousands of years?

Non-native predator. One of the biggest causes of the loss of biodiversity on the planet is the introduction of non-native predators into an environment. If somebody has a pet cat, they should at least try and limit their killing of wildlife. Don't let them out at night/dawn/dusk. Put collars (quick release) with bells on them to limit their kills. Neuter their pets to prevent the formation of feral populations.

ArmaniJeanss

I know as a people we are wary of 'blow-ins' but if cats have been here 2000 years then I think we can accept them as being 'native'.

Capercaille

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I didn't think they evolved here, but around 2k years is about what I had in mind alright. How long do you have to be around to be considered a native species anyway? Birds aren't native either then by what you are saying. Bit irrelevant then what our native predators are then so..

In any case, no bells.

Cats were brought to this Country by people that makes them non-native. Feral cats would be par with feral American Mink. If a species colonised by itself or has always been present then it is deemed native ie Irish Hare, Robin, Blackbird etc.

Phil_Lives

No, that the blink of an eye in evolutionary terms.

DBB

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Birds aren't native either then by what you are saying. Bit irrelevant then what our native predators are then so.. .

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of the term "native" in a biological sense.
Please, please do a bit of research before coming out with half-baked stuff... You're presumably trying to convince people that it's okay for people's cats to have unlimited free rein on our native birds and small mammals? That's not going to happen until you have your facts straight and can argue the point in a coherent and believable way!

DBB

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I know as a people we are wary of 'blow-ins' but if cats have been here 2000 years then I think we can accept them as being 'native'.

No, it simply doesn't work like that.
They're an introduced species, and always will be. They're no more native than dogs or pheasants are.

willmunny1990

Debating on whether cats are native or not is pointless, they are here to stay and it needs to be accepted.

People are over reacting about the damage cats are doing to bird populations when nothing concrete even exists to suggest they are doing damage.

Phil_Lives

willmunny1990 wrote: »

when nothing concrete even exists to suggest they are doing damage.

There are plenty of studies which show they are having a huge effect on native bird populations. It's a sunday night. I'm not going looking for them now.

willmunny1990

Phil_Lives wrote: »

There are plenty of studies which show they are having a huge effect on native bird populations. It's a sunday night. I'm not going looking for them now.

And I could probably find the same amount of studies suggesting otherwise, but its a Sunday night and I also wont go looking for them now.

Phil_Lives

willmunny1990 wrote: »

And I could probably find the same amount of studies suggesting otherwise, but its a Sunday night and I also wont go looking for them now.

You won't.

Pumpkinseeds

boomerang wrote: »

Because most people allow their cat out without supervision, so it can happen out of the owner's sight.

It could also happen to an indoor only cat if it happened while the owner was at work. We've bought all sorts of fancy expensive saftey release collars over the years. We even imported the snazzy velcro reflective ones from America, but Felix and Poppy are just notorious with collars. We'd never get one on Jazzy, his former feral wariness would see to that:D and since we don't use them anymore I wouldn't put one on Toby.

It's one of those contraversial arguments. I always believed in collars on cats and would have been among the first to criticise someone not putting a collar on their cat but having seen how easily some cats get themselves into difficulty with them I'd never put one on them again. At least they're microchipped which ultimately is the better option, for us.

Pumpkinseeds

Capercaille wrote: »

Birds like Corncrake are on the verge of extinction in Ireland. There are numerous species in danger of extinction in Ireland.

Can you provide concrete scientific research to show what percentage of those birds, if any are endangered as a result of cat predation? I'm genuinely interested.

This I just copied from Birdwatch Ireland
Where to See: Formerly an extremely common summer visitor, Corncrakes have suffered drastic population declines this century and are threatened with global extinction. Now only present in small numbers in the Shannon Callows, north Donegal and western parts of Mayo and Connaught. This decline is due in most part to intensive farming practices including early mowing to make silage and mechanised hay making practices which have destroyed nests and driven Corncrakes from old habitats. Now Corncrakes are confined to areas where difficult terrain precludes the use of machinery and where traditional late haymaking still takes place.

DBB

Phil_Lives wrote: »

There are plenty of studies which show they are having a huge effect on native bird populations. It's a sunday night. I'm not going looking for them now.

There was one source of research already posted on this thread...
http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

There is irrefutable evidence that predation by cats contributes to losses amongst native small mammals and birds. Are any species endangered by cats? I don't know... But does it really have to come to that before some cat owners accept that it's just not okay to let your pet kill our native species? The lack of responsibility for the Bigger Picture is pretty astonishing.

Yes, cats are here to stay. There's nobody arguing that. But instead of coming up with excuses for not controlling their cats' impact on local wildlife, or using excuses that are utterly unjustifiable, perhaps people who own cats with a predatory streak could burn up that energy thinking of ways to minimise that cat's impact. I'd admire owners of predatory cats more if they'd just be honest about it, rather than trying to excuse it with unjustifiable excuses!

pwurple

willmunny1990 wrote: »

People are over reacting about the damage cats are doing to bird populations when nothing concrete even exists to suggest they are doing damage.

Well, there's the dead birds in my own garden to suggest some damage surely?

Certain species would be easier targets for the cats. Ground feeders, like the thrush family who use 'anvils' to smash snails on etc would be a very soft target for cats, as they are at ground level.

It also goes back along the chain in ecological terms. So... The prey that the bird lives on can become more of a pest (snails, insects etc). And up the chain, the natural predator may be going without it's food when a species of bird drops. So our native birds of prey, etc.

Qualitymark

Main way to limit the amount of damage cats do is to keep them in at night and not let them out till work-going-out time. Most Irish people do the opposite, many saying "but it's natural".

OP, if you can, put in a motion-triggered watering spray near where the birds feed. It won't bother the birds but the cats won't like it. It won't stop them, but a Super Soaker used occasionally (plain water, no need for anything else) will give it an added discouragement factor.

http://www.havahart.com/store/animal-repellents/spray-away

Do cats harm birds? Yup.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9836471/Killer-cats-deadly-pets-murder-nearly-4-billion-birds-a-year.html

I love cats, but they're deadly to birds, especially juveniles. In fact, I'd go further than saying "keep them in at night" and say "keep them in at night, and all the time if you know birds are breeding nearby at the moment".

One of the little-known phases of bird life is when the chicks are fledged and flown, so they've left the nest. Most people think "OK, that's it, they're adult birds now". But in fact what happens is that they live in hedges or on the ground, hidden in nooks, as they grow stronger and learn to fly properly, while their parents supply them with food. This is *after* they've flown the nest. This is the time they're in greatest danger from cats.

Pumpkinseeds

DBB wrote: »

There was one source of research already posted on this thread...
http://www.rspb.org.uk/advice/gardening/unwantedvisitors/cats/birddeclines.aspx

There is irrefutable evidence that predation by cats contributes to significant losses amongst native small mammals and birds.

Yes, cats are here to stay. There's nobody arguing that. But instead of coming up with excuses for not controlling their cats' impact on local wildlife, or using excuses that are utterly unjustifiable, perhaps people who own cats with a predatory streak could burn up that energy thinking of ways to minimise that cat's impact. I'd admire owners of predatory cats more if they'd just be honest about it, rather than trying to excuse it with unjustifiable excuses!

I don't try to excuse my cats behaviour. Cats are who they are. We have no shortage of birds in our neighbourhood and given that we feed the birds all year round and get through a lot of bird food in very harsh weather, we give back more than our cats ever took. They've also had 4 mice in the space of a week, mice and rats are not the type of wildlife most people would want to see in their gardens or homes.

If no cats had access to the outdoors the most common form would be people putting down poisoned food, which could prove even more devestating to birds and other wildlife, not to mention the possibility of birds dropping poisoned food into a garden where there are pets.

nc19

An air pistol or a crossbow is what you need.

horrible creatures cats.....dont get me started on their owners


Mod note:
nc19, Nope, just don't go there.
Open discussion is fine, advocating cruelty (air pistols, crossbows etc), dissing cats and their owners will not be happening on this thread.
Do not post on this thread again.
Thanks,
DBB