Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

Hagz

Squad rotation is a risky business in a pool where any of the three teams can beat your starting side. If Carolan had rotated against Scotland and lost it would have reflected poorly on him, and if he had rotated against New Zealand it would have been an argument of why not give it your best shot.

I see little need for rotation at this level anyway except for giving opportunity. The players are more than capable of coping with the short turn-around, especially given the nature of the games.

English Lurker

RobbieRuns wrote: »

This group were touted as a very talented lot

I thought the backs were highly touted, but most people seemed to have a lot of doubts and questions over what the pack were capable of; that was my reading of the posts here.

wise7

Hagz wrote: »

Squad rotation is a risky business in a pool where any of the three teams can beat your starting side. If Carolan had rotated against Scotland and lost it would have reflected poorly on him, and if he had rotated against New Zealand it would have been an argument of why not give it your best shot.

I see little need for rotation at this level anyway except for giving opportunity. The players are more than capable of coping with the short turn-around, especially given the nature of the games.

I can'r agree with you on rotation. Look at any of the winners of this competition over the past years and they have all maneged rotation to great affect. Last year England rested 11 frontline players against Argentina in their 3rd pool match and then destroyed Ireland in the Semi. Ireland on the other hand had to keep playing their front-liners in all pool games in order to get the bonus points to get into the semi having lost their opening game to France played only 4 days after arriving in country after a 26 hour journey and 12 hour time difference. This year NZ rested 10 players against Argentina before playing Ireland. The job of the coaches this year was to send out their best team in the first 2 games and score 2 wins plus 2 bonus points to have a good chance of a semi and then the result against NZ would not have mattered. Instead too many players ended up playing all matches. The semi qualification opportunity was well lost in those first two games and the failure to score tries which should have been there for the taking through better game management and use of the ball. Again the coaches erred by sending out the fatiqued front-liners against NZ when there was no realistic hope of a win. That left us vulernable for Wales and we will now end up with a poor seeding position next year and things will be even harder. So no I don't think the coaches played a smart game and no I don't think any players are capable of playing 320 minutes of test rugby in 30 degrees of heat over 12 days. it is pure madness and bad management.

kingofthekong

Just saw that Terry Kennedy is in the men's sevens squad , anyone rate him? Is he eligible fo 20s next year?

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

Just saw that Terry Kennedy is in the men's sevens squad, anyone rate him? Is he eligible fo 20s next year?

Havent seen him play but he is underage for next year. He had played in the Irish u19 sevens squad that played in u19 European 7s championships in April as well as making it into senior 7s squad

wp_rathead

Well lads, Conan starts at 3 with Oisin on the bench for Game tomorrow at 12:00 against d'Scots

The Lost Sheep

5 changes in total. Is this live anywhere? TG4 have the final only
15. Billy Dardis (UCD/Leinster)
14. Stephen Fitzgerald (Shannon/Munster)
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)
12. Sam Arnold (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
11. Jacob Stockdale (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)
10. Joey Carbery (UCD/Leinster)
9. Charlie Rock (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)
2. Zack McCall (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)
3. Conan O'Donnell (Sligo/NUIG/Connacht)
4. David O'Connor (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
5. Alex Thompson (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)
6. Josh Murphy (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
7. Rory Moloney (Buccaneers/Connacht)
8. Lorcan Dow (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)
Replacements:
16. Adam McBurney (Ballymena/Ulster)
17. Liam O'Connor (Cork Constitution/Munster)
18. Oisin Heffernan (Terenure College/Leinster)
19. Cian Romaine (Buccaneers/Connacht)
20. Nick Timoney (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
21. Jack Cullen (Shannon/Munster)
22. Fergal Cleary (Lansdowne/Leinster)
23. Ciaran Gaffney (Galwegians/Connacht)

the baby bull elephant

kingofthekong wrote: »

Just saw that Terry Kennedy is in the men's sevens squad , anyone rate him? Is he eligible fo 20s next year?

Eligible for next year. There's a lot of competition for back three next year with the likes of Power and Stockdale available bit if he gets a chance he'll be well able for it.

Hagz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwvJGWS3go

Hagz

Has to be Akira Ioane. Won't be long before he's lining out for the senior side.

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

Has to be Akira Ioane. Won't be long before he's lining out for the senior side.

That Harlequins lad, Chisholm, has only been playing rugby for a few years and looks very natural. Could be a big player for them pretty soon, and they usually rely on their academy lads pretty early. Could be a natural successor to Easter.

Hagz

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That Harlequins lad, Chisholm, has only been playing rugby for a few years and looks very natural. Could be a big player for them pretty soon, and they usually rely on their academy lads pretty early. Could be a natural successor to Easter.

Are you sure? This article here says he's been playing from the age of 4.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/hotshots/hotshots-meet-harlequins-back-row-james-chisholm-40543

RobbieRuns

Isn't he the younger brother of Ross Chisholm who also plays for Harlequins? Think they have all been playing for a while. He is a good player.

irishbucsfan

Hagz wrote: »

Are you sure? This article here says he's been playing from the age of 4.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/hotshots/hotshots-meet-harlequins-back-row-james-chisholm-40543

That's almost certainly correct, it must be that whoever told me had confused him moving into the back row with him picking up the sport. He definitely looks like a converted center with how he plays so makes a ton of sense.

English Lurker

Haven't seen as much as I'd like this year, but they could have probably just nominated Ioane and left it there.

Re Chisholm - Yes he is Ross' brother, think he did move from the centres fairly recently, and any attempts to succeed Easter on his part come with a potentially massive road block in the shape of Jack Clifford.

edit: Already has 10 senior appearances for Quins though.

A2LUE42

is the match on any tv channel ?

Hagz

17-9 to Ireland FT. Two tries from Stephen Fitzgerald.

The Lost Sheep

Hagz wrote: »

17-9 to Ireland FT. Two tries from Stephen Fitzgerald.

So Ireland will be in the same pool next year as the winner of New Zealand and England game, the loser of Wales and Australia and Georgia.

RedemptionZ

English Lurker wrote: »

I thought the backs were highly touted, but most people seemed to have a lot of doubts and questions over what the pack were capable of; that was my reading of the posts here.

I wouldn't have rated anyone that highly out of this group bar Byrne, who was injured. Murphy had a great tournament but before he wasn't rated more than solid by a lot of people.

This was a weak bunch tbh in comparison to the last few teams we've had. Don't think it's fair to blame Carolan.

Tox56

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I wouldn't have rated anyone that highly out of this group bar Byrne, who was injured. Murphy had a great tournament but before he wasn't rated more than solid by a lot of people.

This was a weak bunch tbh in comparison to the last few teams we've had. Don't think it's fair to blame Carolan.

You wouldn't have rated Ringrose? Arnold? Stockdale, Fitzgerald, Gaffney, Dardis?

The backline is one of the most exciting we've had, with particularly good strength in depth. The forwards really weren't up to much unfortunately

irishbucsfan

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I wouldn't have rated anyone that highly out of this group bar Byrne, who was injured. Murphy had a great tournament but before he wasn't rated more than solid by a lot of people.

This was a weak bunch tbh in comparison to the last few teams we've had. Don't think it's fair to blame Carolan.

I've heard a lot of good things about both Ringrose and Murphy going into this and Arnold has obviously done very well...

the truth is thought that I've often found the rating of players at this age to be extremely inaccurate, mostly because they're often rated by people who've seen them at club/schools level and there's a lot of room for bias in those sorts of opinions. I would trust a few posters here on their opinions (for example Hagz has been banging the Murphy drum for a while and has been vindicated again seemingly) but if it's not someone I recognise I generally will be very slow to accept those sorts of opinions.

Clegg

Ringrose would've been my pick of all the players in that age group. Plays like someone with far more experience than his years suggest. If he keeps up his progression then he'll be starting for Leinster soon enough.

I don't see they hype for Dardis though. He has a lot of pace, but kicks too much and lot of them are poor ones too.

Tox56

Clegg wrote: »

Ringrose would've been my pick of all the players in that age group. Plays like someone with far more experience than his years suggest. If he keeps up his progression then he'll be starting for Leinster soon enough.

I don't see they hype for Dardis though. He has a lot of pace, but kicks too much and lot of them are poor ones too.

He has ability but he does kick way too much and doesn't back himself at all. He has speed and a step, someone has to tell him to use it, because he's an average kicker at best

The Lost Sheep

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

So Ireland will be in the same pool next year as the winner of New Zealand and England game, the loser of Wales and Australia and Georgia.

Australia beat Wales 28-23 so Its Georgia, Wales and final winner in our group next year

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I wouldn't have rated anyone that highly out of this group bar Byrne, who was injured. Murphy had a great tournament but before he wasn't rated more than solid by a lot of people.

This was a weak bunch tbh in comparison to the last few teams we've had. Don't think it's fair to blame Carolan.

Really not rate many that highly? There is a lot in backline who are very highly regarded and 1/2 gems in the pack.

Clegg wrote: »

Ringrose would've been my pick of all the players in that age group. Plays like someone with far more experience than his years suggest. If he keeps up his progression then he'll be starting for Leinster soon enough.

I don't see they hype for Dardis though. He has a lot of pace, but kicks too much and lot of them are poor ones too.

Ringrose is looking like a super player. Will be interesting to see how much he progresses with Leinster next season.
Dardis has suffered to an extent from the slightly OTT hype he was getting from around the age of 15 and on. Very talented guy but now that he is finished age grade rugby it might play to his advantage.

The Lost Sheep

New Zealand leading by 5 going into last quarter. Winner of final joins us, Wales and Georgia in pool for next years competition.

ArmchairQB

RedemptionZ wrote: »

I wouldn't have rated anyone that highly out of this group bar Byrne, who was injured. Murphy had a great tournament but before he wasn't rated more than solid by a lot of people.

This was a weak bunch tbh in comparison to the last few teams we've had. Don't think it's fair to blame Carolan.

Post last years RWC their was huge excitement at the potential of this team with so many returning players this season. For whatever reason that hasn't happened, players and coaches must accept their failures this season and move on and improve, all this crap re Carolan being a brilliant coach is unfounded and not helpful to him, what exactly has he done to merit it? Pick talented school players for Connacht? He now has to kick on and earn a reputation whether that will be good or bad only time will tell.

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Post last years RWC their was huge excitement at the potential of this team with so many returning players this season. For whatever reason that hasn't happened, players and coaches must accept their failures this season and move on and improve, all this crap re Carolan being a brilliant coach is unfounded and not helpful to him, what exactly has he done to merit it? Pick talented school players for Connacht? He now has to kick on and earn a reputation whether that will be good or bad only time will tell.

It isn't crap about Carolan being a brilliant coach. The work he has done in Connacht has been super. Your constant potshots about Connacht taking kids from other provinces .... is tiresome.
He has a good reputation because of the work he has been doing with guys in the Connacht academy set up - Carty, Blade, Leader etc etc

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It isn't crap about Carolan being a brilliant coach. The work he has done in Connacht has been super. Your constant potshots about Connacht taking kids from other provinces .... is tiresome.
He has a good reputation because of the work he has been doing with guys in the Connacht academy set up - Carty, Blade, Leader etc etc

Where did I complain about Connacht taking players from other provinces? You are lecturing us all again. 100% stand by my comments on Carolan and wouldn't be alone in my views as I seem to constantly have to say to you this is a forum for opinions which are varied and valid not just yours as he who shouts the loudest and most often isn't interestingly enough always correct

its_phil

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Post last years RWC their was huge excitement at the potential of this team with so many returning players this season. For whatever reason that hasn't happened, players and coaches must accept their failures this season and move on and improve, all this crap re Carolan being a brilliant coach is unfounded and not helpful to him, what exactly has he done to merit it? Pick talented school players for Connacht? He now has to kick on and earn a reputation whether that will be good or bad only time will tell.

Yeah there was but you know what we lost to Wales and New Zealand at this JWC. We lost to New Zealand and England at the last one. We also had a much better group the last time, with no Southern Hemisphere side and 5 point whipping boy in Fiji which is always the difference for best placed second side in getting out of a pool.

Scotland were the lowest rank side a this year and to be fair they were a good side and we got well beaten in the six nations by them.

Also that England loss during the 6N was the fault of the players. Arrogant and wasteful by the team epitomised by Dardis no look pass. You can't coach a player to not be so stupid in a big game and how on earth could we create a platform off line out if the throwing is bad? Carolyn deserves some flak but so do those players just as much IMO

ArmchairQB

its_phil wrote: »

Yeah there was but you know what we lost to Wales and New Zealand at this JWC. We lost to New Zealand and England at the last one. We also had a much better group the last time, with no Southern Hemisphere side and 5 point whipping boy in Fiji which is always the difference for best placed second side in getting out of a pool.

Scotland were the lowest rank side a this year and to be fair they were a good side and we got well beaten in the six nations by them.

Also that England loss during the 6N was the fault of the players. Arrogant and wasteful by the team epitomised by Dardis no look pass. You can't coach a player to not be so stupid in a big game and how on earth could we create a platform off line out if the throwing is bad? Carolyn deserves some flak but so do those players just as much IMO

yeah would agree with that