Belgian Blue

badview

Hi lads,

just a question for ye, there may not be an answer to it!! We have a few pedigrees at home allready, just as a pastime mainly....
My question is would I be completely mad to buy a Belgian blue female for breeding?? I'd imagine its a different game to breeding your typical continental animal... But id still be interested in getting peoples opinion on them..
At the moment costs seem to be astronomical for pedigree breeding (feed especially), so would blues be much different??

If any body has views on it that wud be great

Thanks

The Letheram

You will never get into them as cheap. The price of them is on the floor and a local breeder (formerly on BB breed council) tells me that registrations are way down at the minute so confidence in the breed seems to be down due to several factors, mainly factories acting the boll*x over carcase weights. However things go in circles and imo the breed will rise again soon enough so this could be a great time to get in.

badview

Thanks for the reply

Ya I realise they are not a cheap buy, but I suppose the best time to buy is when the price is down, and as with any pedigree it probably pays to start out with quality.. My main questions really are what are d main issues people have wit them, I know embryo seem to be the main way of calving, so would a person be as well to buy in calf recipients and go from there??? Also though they require as much feeding as other pedigree breeds??

It may be-hard to answer the these I know!!!

The Letheram

Like any continental pedigree breed I would say on the feeding side but I am only guessing outside of my experience of the stock bull.
Main issue is that they can be lazy. Have heard guys complain that a cow might be bulling and the BB bull could be lying down.
The other issue for dairy buyers is that they are not too keen on walking. The dairy buyer also wants a white bull as a black one will leave calves looking too much like the mammy in colour. A blue or a white heifer crossed to a white bull will leave a white pedigree calf most times. A black heifer will leave a black and white calf and not wanted by the dairy farmer.
The most important thing imo is good functionality in the heifer as a lot of the ai bulls appear to lack this. Also good feet and legs as these are essential tools for any bulls you may breed. It is easy to add muscle from the bull, but functionality, good feet and legs and size are harder to breed into the equation. Best of luck if you decide to go ahead. They are my favourite breed and when money is a little more plentiful I will be buying a pedigree heifer and giving it a go in a small way as a kind of a hobby alongside the commercial sucklers.

badview

Thanks for the reply

Ya I'm thinking along the same lines as you as regards buying one and seeing how it goes from there. Its just i suppose I need to get as much information as possible first. As regards feeding my thinking was that blues wouldnt be as pushed as other breeds, dont know if this is right or wrong?? My main worry would be around calving, what would the view be as regards natural births, if a person went down the embryo route, id be sort of thinking you'd hav to use a c-section would this be right or wrong>???

Thanks for any help

The Letheram

Have a friend of a friend who has a good few pedigree blues and he had one born naturally by accident cos she went a week early. He arrived home after a wedding to find the calf out to the hips. All ended ok though. Only time he ever had one born without a section.

badview

Ya but I presume you want to avoid putting your breeding animals through the stress of a section every year, what would the average number of calvings for a blue cow be in that case, or is that where your embryo transfer comes in???

EamonKilkenny

We bred Blues for about twenty years, loved them. One of the original problems was poor back legs in some of the original imported stock. A lot of that has been corrected.
The problem I see with them is the cost. You have a C-section guaranteed which is 300-350 for a start and if you are selling them as bulls you nearly need to keep them until they are over 2yrs old at least if not 2 1/2 as they are not as fruitful as the limo or Angus that will climb a tree to bull a cow. So when we added up the costs of the extra time and money thrown into them the profit margins got small.
What was worth while was flushing and selling embryos or incalf heifers but that was down to how good a cow flushed, we used flush about three each time and that allowed for one poor flush and the others usually picked up the slack.
I don't mean to be putting a damper on your idea by what I've just text, I'm just giving our experience of it. As has been said above legs, length and a bit of height to start with as you can put all the muscle you want in when you are choosing the bull.

EamonKilkenny

badview wrote: »

Ya but I presume you want to avoid putting your breeding animals through the stress of a section every year, what would the average number of calvings for a blue cow be in that case, or is that where your embryo transfer comes in???

4-5 on left hand side as long as your vet is tidy and and then they can come in from the right but it gets messy as the stomach and intestines are harder to get past. The most we managed was 5 on the left and two on the right but that was good going I think.

badview

Thanks lads, alot of great information from ye.

I still have more questions though!!
What were they like to get back incalf after the c-section?? I presume they were delicate enough for a while after?? As regards the bulls if anything is selling them that bit older a better idea?? In england most bulls seem to be sold when they are more mature??

If you where starting out again would you start with a heifer and hope to flush her or calve her naturally, or would you by recipients with heifer calves and have a more long term plan with these???

I know I'm a bit all over the place with the questions but its always good to be wise!!!

EamonKilkenny

badview wrote: »

Thanks lads, alot of great information from ye.

I still have more questions though!!
What were they like to get back incalf after the c-section?? I presume they were delicate enough for a while after?? As regards the bulls if anything is selling them that bit older a better idea?? In england most bulls seem to be sold when they are more mature??

If you where starting out again would you start with a heifer and hope to flush her or calve her naturally, or would you by recipients with heifer calves and have a more long term plan with these???

I know I'm a bit all over the place with the questions but its always good to be wise!!!

Every extra day you have them they are costing you more money. The last thing you want to be doing is supplying a facility for somebody else and not get any extra from it.

The vet we had doing them was brilliant and never had any issues really. Sometimes after a few sections the ovaries can become cystic so it was always worth scanning a month or six weeks after calving. They had a new vet at one stage that did a botch job and one of the ovaries got damaged and in someway scared. She went back incalf once more after and that was it.
I'd imagine you could buy better quality embryos than heifers if that makes sense. Guys would always have embryos to sell from their better flushing cows and in a way that means you are buying better fertility. You would have to be able to see the cow they are from and as much of the family as possible though. Put them in two whitehead/Friesan cross hfs and you will have loads of milk and get the same money back when you hang the heifer up that Autumn so you wouldn't be overly out of pocket. I suppose it's all down to what you can afford. Richard Duff, Champion Embryos would be your best bet. He bred some very good AI bulls in his time and flushes the world of cows for other people.

badview

Ya that is the thing, you get to certain point where the extra costs makes it a loss making hobby!! at the moment everything seems to be costing money though!!

Thanks for that answer, its something that I will have to think about, I dont think you can rush into a decision, and definetly couldnt afford to rush into buying, I must try and get out to a couple of shows over the rest of the summer!! Would I be wrong to think that you can buy recipients that the sex of the calf is known?? Would it be hard to purchase a quality heifer??

EamonKilkenny

badview wrote: »

Ya that is the thing, you get to certain point where the extra costs makes it a loss making hobby!! at the moment everything seems to be costing money though!!

Thanks for that answer, its something that I will have to think about, I dont think you can rush into a decision, and definetly couldnt afford to rush into buying, I must try and get out to a couple of shows over the rest of the summer!! Would I be wrong to think that you can buy recipients that the sex of the calf is known?? Would it be hard to purchase a quality heifer??

They can sex embryos when they flush but I think it damages them slightly. Once an embryo is over the 60 day pregnancy they can be sexed by most scanners.
There are plenty good stock out there to be bought if the money is right. Go to Tullamore show and the ploughing and you will get to see some of the breeders and get some contacts for yourself.

badview

Thanks for d replys, ya I must try and get up to tullamore definetly, the more knowledge the better!!