Sodium Hyperchlorite bleach cleaning?

Kencollins

Hi all,

I have brewed 6 batches of beer, and used milton to clean the fermenting buckets and bottles with great success.

This stuff does cost a fortune though, and a look at the label shows it is 2% sodium hyperchlorite....as in plain old bleach.

Tesco have big bottles of thin bleach this week for 60c, that has 1.5% sodium hyperchlorite.

To cut costs could I just replace the milton with the tesco bleach, but use 25 percent more to even out the bleach content?

I have also head someone saying to add vinegar to the solution once it is mixed with water, does this work too?

I always rinse the fermentors and bottles three times with fresh water to remove the bleach smell.

I cant believe that breweries would pay the kind of money for starsan or oxiclean when bleach is a viable alternative.

Ken

BeerNut

Bleach and vinegar has always worked fine for me: 30ml of thin bleach and the same of vinegar added to 20L of water (never mix them neat). The resulting sanitiser does not require rinsing.

Kencollins

Thanks for that beer nut!

Would the thin bleach you use be 1.5g per 100g solution? I don't want to get it wrong and ruin a whole batch!

Does the vinegar help make it no rinse in some way?

BeerNut

Kencollins wrote: »

Would the thin bleach you use be 1.5g per 100g solution?

Not a clue. I use the Tesco or SuperValu own brands.

Kencollins wrote: »

Does the vinegar help make it no rinse in some way?

I think the vinegar is just about bringing the pH down.

rubadub

Milton also has sodium chloride in it (regular table salt).

The tesco value bleach is 1.5%, most of the others are 4.5-6%. When you see recipies with ratios of bleach to vinegar they would be expecting ~5% bleach and ~5% vinegar/acetic acid.

http://chemistry.about.com/b/2012/02/01/why-people-mix-bleach-and-vinegar.htm

What Happens When Bleach and Vinegar Are Mixed

Chlorine bleach contains sodium hypochlorite or NaOCl. Because bleach is sodium hypochlorite in water, the sodium hypochlorite in bleach actually exists as hypochlorous acid:

NaOCl + H2O ↔ HOCl + Na+ + OH-

Hypochlorous acid is a strong oxidizer. This is what makes it so good at bleaching and disinfection. If you mix bleach with an acid, chlorine gas will be produced. For example, if you mix bleach with toilet bowl cleaner, which contains hydrochloric acid:

HOCl + HCl ↔ H2O + Cl2

Chlorine gas attacks mucous membranes, such as your eyes, throat, and lungs and can kill you, so causing that reaction isn't in your best interest. If you mix bleach with another acid, such as the acetic acid found in vinegar, you get essentially the same result:

2HOCl + 2HAc ↔ Cl2 + 2H2O + 2Ac- (Ac : CH3COO)

There is an equilibrium between the chlorine species that is influenced by pH. When the pH is lowered, as by adding toilet bowl cleaner or vinegar, the ratio of chlorine gas in increased. When the pH is raised, the ratio of hypochlorite ion is increased. Hypochlorite ion is a less efficient oxidizer than hypochlorous acid, so some people will intentionally lower the pH of bleach to increase the oxidizing power of the chemical, even though chlorine gas is produced as a result.

Ronan|Raven

Do as Beernut said above and you will be fine.

I have used this method for several brews and it works fine.

lee_baby_simms

Kencollins wrote: »

Thanks for that beer nut!

Would the thin bleach you use be 1.5g per 100g solution? I don't want to get it wrong and ruin a whole batch!

Does the vinegar help make it no rinse in some way?

Like beernut says 20L water/30ml vinegar/30ml bleach.

Pour 30ml of bleach into FV, top up with water to 20L, then add 30ml vinegar.

I think the reason that this method is not well known or widely promoted is the fact that chlorine gas can be produced when bleach and vinegar are mixed neat. If that gas kisses you in the face its could be game over so be very careful.

Kencollins

Will defo give it a try anyway!

I think I might by a cheap extract kit to try it with though....

Worst case scenario I have to chuck the beer, best case I get 40 bottles of average beer to drink!

Ken