Denis O'Brien censors the internet

Muahahaha

Ireland's favourite tax exile has really done it this time.

Not happy with services like Viber and Whatapp offering mobile customers the ability to use the data connection to make cheap/free calls and texts Denis O'Brien has responded by censoring the internet and blocking a range of VoIP operators including Viber.

The CEO of Viber has come out and said Denis O'Brien is "on the wrong side of history"

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/technology/denis-o-brien-is-on-the-wrong-side-of-history-says-viber-chief-1.1869770

darkpagandeath

And this is why we can't have nice things. Very little competition here and any that come in either get complained to via the courts or squeezed out. Bottom line here is to cream as much out of people for a service while keeping the choice of were you can go down to a minimum. Plenty of back door deals like that happened in one sector price fixing.... One British telecoms company came here laid fibre, one here complained to the courts so they left. Fiber already all over Ireland yet company here are not allowed to use it as they did not want competition.

_Redzer_

Ireland is so behind in many areas and in such a rip off because there's such a monopoly. Sick of the lack of competition and the government don't seem too bothered by it either.

Robbo

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Ireland is so behind in many areas and in such a rip off because there's such a monopoly. Sick of the lack of competition and the government don't seem too bothered by it either.

And we've been in the Caribbean for how long now?

Also, something something, water meters.

Cienciano

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Ireland is so behind in many areas and in such a rip off because there's such a monopoly. Sick of the lack of competition and the government don't seem too bothered by it either.

It's the caribbean this is happening, not ireland

The Diabolical Monocle

Hope anonymous hack his ass.

longhalloween

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Ireland is so behind in many areas and in such a rip off because there's such a monopoly. Sick of the lack of competition and the government don't seem too bothered by it either.

This is happening in the Caribbean, and the government's there seem to support VOIP

_Redzer_

Cienciano wrote: »

It's the caribbean this is happening, not ireland

Haha. My mistake!

_Redzer_

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Ireland is so behind in many areas and in such a rip off because there's such a monopoly. Sick of the lack of competition and the government don't seem too bothered by it either.

Perhaps a reading of the article before throwing accusations

Canis Lupus

Where does the bulk of revenue come from the mobile industry these days? Is it phone/text or data? If the former you'd kind of appreciate how a telecommunications company could be a bit upset by the likes of viber/skype. They are effectively leeches no?

steddyeddy

The UCD science building is called the Denis O Brien centre for science. That sums up the man's ego for me.

tonyka

All media moguls believe they have a duty to control the people.and since all politicians believe they have to be friends with such people ( if they want positive exposure at election time) then they usually get their own way.

darkpagandeath

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Where does the bulk of revenue come from the mobile industry these days? Is it phone/text or data? If the former you'd kind of appreciate how a telecommunications company could be a bit upset by the likes of viber/skype. They are effectively leeches no?

It's just another data service, it's not the early 90s anymore a cap on data and and charges for data should be massively overhauled. The price of a text is ridiculous.

_Redzer_

TheTorment wrote: »

Perhaps a reading of the article before throwing accusations

There's no accusations really. Eircom had a monopoly here and our broadband infrastructure suffered so badly.

Canis Lupus

darkpagandeath wrote: »

It's just another data service, it's not the early 90s anymore a cap on data and and charges for data should be massively overhauled. The price of a text is ridiculous.

What do you mean by a data service? I should put in a disclaimer that I don't own a smartphone so perhaps am a touch clueless but aren't they effectively using the 'assets' of the telecoms company without any financial contribution to the company? I can see why a telecoms company would be pissed at that situation. I can't imagine it's cheap to develop and maintain a telecommunications network.

AnonoBoy

I'd censor Snapchat and Whatsapp if I owned the internet.

Frank Lee Midere

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Where does the bulk of revenue come from the mobile industry these days? Is it phone/text or data? If the former you'd kind of appreciate how a telecommunications company could be a bit upset by the likes of viber/skype. They are effectively leeches no?

Smart carriers should see themselves as data providers. Voice is data. The Internet is data. VoIP is data.

Charge people for data packages and you're golden.

Frank Lee Midere

Canis Lupus wrote: »

What do you mean by a data service? I should put in a disclaimer that I don't own a smartphone so perhaps am a touch clueless but aren't they effectively using the 'assets' of the telecoms company without any financial contribution to the company? I can see why a telecoms company would be pissed at that situation. I can't imagine it's cheap to develop and maintain a telecommunications network.

The VOIP providers are using what the consumer is paying for already. Bits transmitted over their network.

irishgrover

IMHO it's not a million miles away from mobiles here blocking mobile tethering. Same concept, different application of restrictive practice.... Both are very questionable activities designed to limit customer freedom and maximise carrier profitability

Phoebas

steddyeddy wrote: »

The UCD science building is called the Denis O Brien centre for science. That sums up the man's ego for me.

How dare UCD honour him for donating millions of Euro for a science building. What an awful man!

Canis Lupus

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The VOIP providers are using what the consumer is paying for already. Bits transmitted over their network.

Ok that makes sense but its a definite blurring of the issue. I imagine VoIP companies are so cheap/free because they don't have to create/maintain a telecommunications network and all the staff etc that goes with it. They are effectively *ahem* backdooring it into the 'system'. It's not really fair competition.

I'd be a touch aggrieved if I made something and another company could just use my assets to make money without any kickback to me (and its not just some random enterprise but literally my core business).

I don't think it's as simple to say well I already pay for the data. If the telecoms company loses phone/text revenue should they put data prices up?

Wishiwasa Littlebitaller

It's O'Brien's own fault.

Technology helping people make calls using their data connection was gathering momentum for years and instead of jumping on board and trying to get involved in that, what did he do?

E sat back and did nothing.

Frank Lee Midere

Phoebas wrote: »

How dare UCD honour him for donating millions of Euro for a science building. What an awful man!

If he paid his taxes that would have been subsidised by O'Brien but anonymously.

Nodin

Phoebas wrote: »

How dare UCD honour him for donating millions of Euro for a science building. What an awful man!

Denis "The Writ" O'Brien? Absolutely.

Frank Lee Midere

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Ok that makes sense but its a definite blurring of the issue. I imagine VoIP companies are so cheap/free because they don't have to create/maintain a telecommunications network and all the staff etc that goes with it. They are effectively *ahem* backdooring it into the 'system'. It's not really fair competition.

I'd be a touch aggrieved if I made something and another company could just use my assets to make money without any kickback to me (and its not just some random enterprise but literally my core business).

I don't think it's as simple to say well I already pay for the data. If the telecoms company loses phone/text revenue should they put data prices up?

It is that simple. And it's legally, morally and scientifically that simple. My agreement with the carriers includes data and data is data.

Furthermore carriers are not losing out. To get access to this data and proper VoIP I need to pay for a machine which consumes loads of data and is smart and modern. Both involve paying more money upfront or PAYG than I used to pay before.

Look at their profits.

Or look at this PAYG data allowance from O2. From the O2 thread

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057252453/1/#post91346881


Data is expensive.

Satriale

Phoebas wrote: »

How dare UCD honour him for donating millions of Euro for a science building. What an awful man!

you got one bit right anyway.

Grayson

Phoebas wrote: »

How dare UCD honour him for donating millions of Euro for a science building. What an awful man!

He's a cnut of the highest order. Just because he donated some money doesn't stop him from being one.

steddyeddy

Phoebas wrote: »

How dare UCD honour him for donating millions of Euro for a science building. What an awful man!

Many other scientists donated money to that building. As did the government and business. The scientist who invented the smoke alarm also went to UCD. Yet despite all that they name a science building after someone who's claim to fame is being accused of obtaining a telecommunications license via dodgy means.

Phoebas

Satriale wrote: »

you got one bit right anyway.

The bit about him being honoured by UCD is simple fact, so that must be the one bit I got right, right?

Grayson wrote: »

He's a cnut of the highest order. Just because he donated some money doesn't stop him from being one.

He may well be 'a cnut of the highest order' but that doesn't mean that everything he does is cnutish. Philanthropy is a good thing.
His wanting to charge fees for voip operators using his network may be 'on the wrong side of history' but its hardly unrealistic for him to want to protect his traditional call revenues.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Many other scientists donated money to that building. As did the government and business. The scientist who invented the smoke alarm also went to UCD. Yet despite all that they name a science building after someone who's claim to fame is being accused of obtaining a telecommunications license via dodgy means.

O'Brien's largesse must have been larger.

EricPraline

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Smart carriers should see themselves as data providers. Voice is data. The Internet is data. VoIP is data.

Charge people for data packages and you're golden.

Completely agree in principle. Except for the fact that the real profits for operators lie in charging exorbitant rates for voice, SMS and MMS. When these applications operate over the data network with Viber, Skype, iMessage or whatever, their cash cow disappears.

Frank Lee Midere

EricPraline wrote: »

Completely agree in principle. Except for the fact that the real profits for operators lie in charging exorbitant rates for voice, SMS and MMS. When these applications operate over the data network with Viber, Skype, iMessage or whatever, their cash cow disappears.

Are you sure? Most people buy a package. The package contains a "free" alliance of calls, SMS, MMS and a data allowance. The more money you spend per month the bigger the allowance. It shouldn't matter to them if you need the bigger package for more voice, VOIP data or other data. The only cost to them is perhaps overseas calling but the extra cost got that - and data roaming - has always been price gouging. It doesn't really cost them any more.

holystungun9

The Diabolical Monocle wrote: »

Hope anonymous hack his ass.

Ass Hackers? I'm sure I've seen that one already.

cooperguy

EricPraline wrote: »

Completely agree in principle. Except for the fact that the real profits for operators lie in charging exorbitant rates for voice, SMS and MMS. When these applications operate over the data network with Viber, Skype, iMessage or whatever, their cash cow disappears.

They can increase the price of data if they feel they are undercharging for it. What they want to do is charge for transmitting the same data twice.

No Pants

cooperguy wrote: »

They can increase the price of data if they feel they are undercharging for it. What they want to do is charge for transmitting the same data twice.

Indeed. The consumer pays for the data. What they do with that data allowance that they've paid for, as long as it is not illegal, is none of their business.

Phoebas

cooperguy wrote: »

They can increase the price of data if they feel they are undercharging for it. What they want to do is charge for transmitting the same data twice.

What they really want to do is charge different rates for different kinds of data. That's a potentially interesting innovation.

cooperguy

Phoebas wrote: »

What they really want to do is charge different rates for different kinds of data. That's a potentially interesting innovation.

I wouldn't call it innovation, I would call it a backwards step that would prevent innovation and new product launches. The networks want their fingers in all the pies.

There is nothing stopping them launching a VOIP service if that's what they want to do.

markpb

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Ok that makes sense but its a definite blurring of the issue. I imagine VoIP companies are so cheap/free because they don't have to create/maintain a telecommunications network and all the staff etc that goes with it. They are effectively *ahem* backdooring it into the 'system'. It's not really fair competition.

Customers pay for receiving data over their internet connection. Companies pay for sending data over their internet connection. Everyone pays so the idea that VOIP companies are somehow getting a free ride isn't true. What's actually happening is that some mobile operators are penalising customers because one of their internet services happens to look similar to something that the operator already offers (and charges separately for).

evolving_doors

What about his arch nemesis Tony O' Reilly, surely he can do something with his big bucks to stop this madness... oh wait!

oppenheimer1

_Redzer_ wrote: »

There's no accusations really. Eircom had a monopoly here and our broadband infrastructure suffered so badly.

It wasn't the fact that eircom was a monopoly that stalled broadband development here. After all when telecom eireann was sold we had a quite advanced network. The problem with eircom was that it was sold and loaded with debt by people who had no interest in running a telecommunications company.

Satriale

I'll just leave this here, it may be somewhat relevant to this thread.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jul/28/irish-independent-denis-o-brien?CMP=twt_gu

Nodin

Satriale wrote: »

I'll just leave this here, it may be somewhat relevant to this thread.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jul/28/irish-independent-denis-o-brien?CMP=twt_gu

Good oul Dinny.

(He's never been convicted of anything ye know).

Muahahaha

cooperguy wrote: »

I wouldn't call it innovation, I would call it a backwards step that would prevent innovation and new product launches. The networks want their fingers in all the pies.

There is nothing stopping them launching a VOIP service if that's what they want to do.

Exactly, Skype and Viber are innovative. Running a mobile phone network hasn't been innovative since about 1999.

Satriale wrote: »

I'll just leave this here, it may be somewhat relevant to this thread.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jul/28/irish-independent-denis-o-brien?CMP=twt_gu

Looks like the Phoenix article that said editor Anne Harris is on the way out the door in October is bang on the money. I wonder who OBrien will install as editor then ? Barry Egan perhaps ? It would be a fitting appointment.

Nodin

Muahahaha wrote: »

Exactly, Skype and Viber are innovative. Running a mobile phone network hasn't been innovative since about 1999.



Looks like the Phoenix article that said editor Anne Harris is on the way out the door in October is bang on the money. I wonder who OBrien will install as editor then ? Barry Egan perhaps ? It would be a fitting appointment.

No, yer man Brendan O'Connor, property market specialist extraordinaire.

michael999999

Nodin wrote: »

Good oul Dinny.

(He's never been convicted of anything ye know).

Neither has Bertie!