Converted to Organic

Kevin the sheep

Is there any of you organic farmers on here or have any of you considered organic and said no why? What are the positives and what are the negatives of organic if you are do you feel there is much more work or less ? Do you feel your making more or less than a conventional farmer and is it hard to sell what you produce be it bacon beef lamb veg fruit whatever thanks

Mad4simmental

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Is there any of you organic farmers on here or have any of you considered organic and said no why? What are the positives and what are the negatives of organic if you are do you feel there is much more work or less ? Do you feel your making more or less than a conventional farmer and is it hard to sell what you produce be it bacon beef lamb veg fruit whatever thanks

Lad next door is organic, around 150 suckler cows. The main thing he says is he dosnt miss the bill from the coop for fert & meal. The price for beef isn't anything flash at the moment ider, about a euro more than conventional. Thought about it here but we are to small to make it work IMO.

Kevin the sheep

What size would you need to make it work I wonder

Farmer Pudsey

I see there is a new organics/conversion payment rate out. Idealy you need a biggish farm as you need to grow a bit of grain etc. You would really want to be using your slurry well and have clover in the swards.

The other thing IMO you would need to be able to finish cattle/sheep as store prices are often wibbly wobbly and no better than conventional. However that may be an advantage if losing money at conventional.

Sam Kade

A neighbour of mine went organic with beef and sheep she says it means that she can keep more of her sfp

Kevin the sheep

Sam Kade wrote: »

A neighbour of mine went organic with beef and sheep she says it means that she can keep more of her sfp

So she's still not making money now after going organic if she still has to use her SFP how long is she at it and what type of sheep cows does she have thanks

Kovu

I often wondered if there were many organic farmers who were butchers themselves, so they could bring the beef to table.

Kevin the sheep

.Kovu. wrote: »

I often wondered if there were many organic farmers who were butchers themselves, so they could bring the beef to table.

You could get them killed in local abattoir (could be spelt wrong ) and sell yourself but hard to get a market for every piece of meat I sappose but then again that's where stew bags and burgers come in

Sam Kade

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

So she's still not making money now after going organic if she still has to use her SFP how long is she at it and what type of sheep cows does she have thanks

She's at it a long time since her father died it was actually at an opportunities for farmers course that she gave a presentation at. She has sucklers and mid season fat lamb. Come to think of it it was the Teagasc advisor that said by going organic you will be able to hold onto more of your sfp.

Maphisto

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

You could get them killed in local abattoir (could be spelt wrong ) and sell yourself but hard to get a market for every piece of meat I sappose but then again that's where stew bags and burgers come in

We had a scheme around here for Lamb. A group of lads got together and you could basically buy a whole or half a lamb butchered.

We bought one and I was looking forward to the liver, kidney, probably give the dog the heart, etc. but no. All you got was the 2 legs, shoulders and the rest was chops. We asked about the liver and stuff and they said we can get you some if you want but blah blah.

There was no differnce in price to going to the butcher so we didn't do it again

Kovu

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

You could get them killed in local abattoir (could be spelt wrong ) and sell yourself but hard to get a market for every piece of meat I sappose but then again that's where stew bags and burgers come in

Well I vary between a local butcher and an organic butcher that goes to markets around the place. I think he does well as he has a niche there where he can travel with his produce to different areas.

Kevin the sheep

.Kovu. wrote: »

Well I vary between a local butcher and an organic butcher that goes to markets around the place. I think he does well as he has a niche there where he can travel with his produce to different areas.[/

Sure sappose anyone with a permit could buy a refridgirated van/truck and go to markets and go to a few restaurants with your product and see would they have an interest also what kind of profit is there out of let's say a organic aa heifer over normal aa heifer would it be much more I know someone said its a €1/kg more dead weight but it surely costs less to produce organic would your profit per ha be down much on conventional farming

Kovu

I don't know, I was told the price of organic beef went quite low there a while back so organic heifers were being sold through the ring in Drumshanbo with normal stock.

You'd have to take into account that your stocking rate would be lower, but your outgoing costs wouldn't have the expenses of fertiliser. Yet as mentioned above, you'd want to plan your slurry/dung spreading to maximum efficiency.

If you needed to factor in meal prices in places where tillage wouldn't be suitable for your own crop, then you'd be paying through the nose for organic feed. Traditional breeds would be used to maximum productivity though, they would suit an organic farm very well.

tanko

We should all get Dexter cattle. I was told this week that dexter beef is making €7/kg for restaurants in Dublin. Don't know whether it has to be organic or not. Anyone know anything about this?

Kovu

tanko wrote: »

We should all get Dexter cattle. I was told this week that dexter beef is making €7/kg for restaurants in Dublin. Don't know whether it has to be organic or not. Anyone know anything about this?

Great for those on a diet, the steaks are teeny.

I remember seeing organic dexter beef in Balmoral show before, could have been these

Some prices on their website
STEAKS
Fillet €60/kg
Rib-eye, Striploin, T-bone €30/kg
Sirloin €20/kg

ROASTS
Whole Fillet €60/kg
Rib (boned & rolled) €30/kg
Rib (on the bone) €25/kg
Round, Brisket €20/kg

VARIOUS €14/kg
Diced Round
Chuck Mince
Short Ribs
OxTail
Shin

Justjens

One of the main issues with organics is the winter housing, no lying on slats, cubicles accepted, but ideally straw bed (which can work out expensive) and a stocking rate of 6 sq metres per cow.

You would be better off finishing your stock, as selling at any other time does not command much of a premium, a lot of suckler farmers just take their weanlings to a weekly conventional mart. There is no real market or premium for organic lamb.

It's possible to manage without growing your own grain depending on the type of land and the length of winter in your area, if you are finishing anything during the winter just buy an organic ration to feed to those animals.

As regards to drug withdrawals the minimum is now about 36 days (I think) or double what it says on the product so that's an area to be careful of and two treatments in a twelve month period excludes the animal from organic status (AFAIK doses not included, but could be wrong).

With the new subsidies now introduced it certainly looks more attractive, less input means less labour, and a higher slaughter price for beef. Although if growing veg you'd ideally want to live near a large urban area and sell directly to the public which would be a lot more labour intensive.

rangler1

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Is there any of you organic farmers on here or have any of you considered organic and said no why? What are the positives and what are the negatives of organic if you are do you feel there is much more work or less ? Do you feel your making more or less than a conventional farmer and is it hard to sell what you produce be it bacon beef lamb veg fruit whatever thanks

Our producer group lets organic farmers use our depots and transport to bring lamb from the midlands to camolin and they always seem to be getting good prices

Kevin the sheep

I have quite a bit of room all straw bed there is a 80 foot by 150foot shed and another two 30 by 75 also have a few smaller houses we are as good as organic here allready we only spread fert for the silage none on grazing ground we do more ales no spraying right we do dose for worms and fluke but only twice a year goin out and comein in there's 120 acres 80 very good land 40 will be fearly good land in people's opinion which would you go for if you had the choice to do either organic or conventional

Farmer Pudsey

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

You could get them killed in local abattoir (could be spelt wrong ) and sell yourself but hard to get a market for every piece of meat I sappose but then again that's where stew bags and burgers come in

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

.Kovu. wrote: »

Well I vary between a local butcher and an organic butcher that goes to markets around the place. I think he does well as he has a niche there where he can travel with his produce to different areas.[/

Sure sappose anyone with a permit could buy a refridgirated van/truck and go to markets and go to a few restaurants with your product and see would they have an interest also what kind of profit is there out of let's say a organic aa heifer over normal aa heifer would it be much more I know someone said its a €1/kg more dead weight but it surely costs less to produce organic would your profit per ha be down much on conventional farming

Anybody considering direct sale as a way to increase profit has to remember Ireland is mostly a low density population wise and we export 90%(we should always keep that figure in mind) of what we produce. Therefore farmer slaughtering has very limited application. It also will not add much to profit as people that buy in bulk expect discount at best or even wholesale cost.

Any average family would use up a 20kg DW lamb quite easily however only a limited amount will purchase this way. It is the same with beef.

tanko wrote: »

We should all get Dexter cattle. I was told this week that dexter beef is making €7/kg for restaurants in Dublin. Don't know whether it has to be organic or not. Anyone know anything about this?

They would want to be conversion rate is bad and carcass weight is horrible.

Kevin the sheep

Thanks for replys just a taught selling direct but buy the sounds of it it's not a runner wonder is there anywhere a person could get organic profit v conventional profit per acre/ha/cow/ewe from calf to fork or lamb to fork

Maphisto

Kevin the sheep wrote: »

Thanks for replys just a taught selling direct but buy the sounds of it it's not a runner wonder is there anywhere a person could get organic profit v conventional profit per acre/ha/cow/ewe from calf to fork or lamb to fork

This might seem even further from what you had hoped Kev but a couple of the lads have come round with the odd bag of chops or leg of lamb.

Its not exactly barter per se more you scratch mine and ....

blue5000

Heard of one lad that is organic on 80 acres, 20 of it is veg that is rotated around. AFAIK the veg makes the money, cattle give the veg muck. Veg is very labour intensive and you need a decent market.

If we all jump into organic beef that extra €1/kg won't be long disappearing. Happened already in Denmark with organic milk, got so plentiful that there was no premium.

Kevin the sheep

Ha blue i have no intention of been a veg farmer wouldn't know anything about it couldn't grow a carrot and yes it would louse it premium if everyone did it I sappose there will be a few considering it with the new payments that are now there for organic conversion anyway better go milk some cows and make some money :-)

Markcheese

Get on to the organic bodies ( organic trust, or Iofga) see who's organic anywhere nearby, and ring them up ,see if you can visit, or if there's any farm walks, ... Teagasc should have the figures you were looking for,(how accurate they are is another story )
The main thing to sort out would be your market ,where'll you be selling finished stock, what do they want and when ? No point offering finished continentals all in one group in October if your customer wants traditional breed heifers all through the year..